Clutch Clankin' (noise)
- Thread starter Nick6153
- Start date
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EchoBase
Registered
Nick,
Welcome to the forum.
I want to say first of all say that the research you have done thus far and the way you presented your issues and you're findings are textbook perfect for how someone should ask for help on the forum.
You've done loads of looking into, measuring and consulting the manual.
My comments and suggestions may not be in any specific order.
-The springs in the basket I am 95% sure should NOT be loose at all. Anyone?
-I do believe your issue is clutch related.
-If I were you, I would for my own piece of mind find somewhere the tolerances for the oil pump and verify what you have.
-I do not believe that missing needle bearings are ever normal. It's not like they fell out onto the street, they probably got chewed up by everything that rotates with the clutch assembly.
-Whatever part that is that's missing the needle bearing, replace it.
-I'm pretty sure the metal plates go between the clutch discs. Anyone?
-That disc that has that groove worn in it may in the end need replacing.
Can you provide any more history on the bike?
Welcome to the forum.
I want to say first of all say that the research you have done thus far and the way you presented your issues and you're findings are textbook perfect for how someone should ask for help on the forum.
You've done loads of looking into, measuring and consulting the manual.
My comments and suggestions may not be in any specific order.
-The springs in the basket I am 95% sure should NOT be loose at all. Anyone?
-I do believe your issue is clutch related.
-If I were you, I would for my own piece of mind find somewhere the tolerances for the oil pump and verify what you have.
-I do not believe that missing needle bearings are ever normal. It's not like they fell out onto the street, they probably got chewed up by everything that rotates with the clutch assembly.
-Whatever part that is that's missing the needle bearing, replace it.
-I'm pretty sure the metal plates go between the clutch discs. Anyone?
-That disc that has that groove worn in it may in the end need replacing.
Can you provide any more history on the bike?
Thanks for the reply, Echo.
From what I've read on other forums and asking around, most tend to say it's acceptable for the springs on the back of the basket to be loose. That said, some of mine are REALLY loose. I'm honing in on this being a major part of the problem, as the knock seems to go away when the clutch has tension on it (like when you're taking off), or the RPM's pick up over about 1500-2000.
As for the oil pump, I can't find a tolerance anywhere in the manual, or any opinions online so far. I did briefly message an engine builder that specializes in these bikes, and he said play in the shaft was normal, but didn't define a limit. He also suggested I just find a known-good clutch basket to swap out and see if the problem goes away. I'm not sure why the video didn't post on the last go-round, but here's attempt #2:
I put the clutch completely back together last night and started it up for a test. I was hoping maybe something was wrong with the way things were installed prior, but alas, the knock is still there. I did switch out the position of the grooved steel plate just to see if there was a difference.
I think the next step is going to be biting the bullet and ordering a basket. To keep it on budget, I'm planning on ordering a good used basket of ebay, then installing to see if the clank goes away. I don't really see a way around it as I don't have another clutch on hand to try.
Updates to follow.
-Nick
From what I've read on other forums and asking around, most tend to say it's acceptable for the springs on the back of the basket to be loose. That said, some of mine are REALLY loose. I'm honing in on this being a major part of the problem, as the knock seems to go away when the clutch has tension on it (like when you're taking off), or the RPM's pick up over about 1500-2000.
As for the oil pump, I can't find a tolerance anywhere in the manual, or any opinions online so far. I did briefly message an engine builder that specializes in these bikes, and he said play in the shaft was normal, but didn't define a limit. He also suggested I just find a known-good clutch basket to swap out and see if the problem goes away. I'm not sure why the video didn't post on the last go-round, but here's attempt #2:
I put the clutch completely back together last night and started it up for a test. I was hoping maybe something was wrong with the way things were installed prior, but alas, the knock is still there. I did switch out the position of the grooved steel plate just to see if there was a difference.
I think the next step is going to be biting the bullet and ordering a basket. To keep it on budget, I'm planning on ordering a good used basket of ebay, then installing to see if the clank goes away. I don't really see a way around it as I don't have another clutch on hand to try.
Updates to follow.
-Nick
EchoBase
Registered
Nick
Ok on all fronts.
I have a feeling you'll be replacing clutch components until the problem is resolved.
The one you order off eBay, did you verify the springs are not loose?
I viewed the vid, I would be more concerned with play on the other two axis', the in and out I'm thinking is not to serious.
Ok on all fronts.
I have a feeling you'll be replacing clutch components until the problem is resolved.
The one you order off eBay, did you verify the springs are not loose?
I viewed the vid, I would be more concerned with play on the other two axis', the in and out I'm thinking is not to serious.
In and out is the only play it has; every other direction is tight.
What I can say with relative confidence is it has to be either the inner or outer basket, and most likely the outer. Again, I'm really thinking its the springs loose in the back knocking around. I'm thinking I might go out again tonight when I get home, remove the clutch, and see if I can find a way to wedge something underneath the springs to hold them in place. Then I'll put it back together and run it (at idle only) just to see if it makes a difference.
The one I'm looking at on eBay notes a little movement in the springs, mine is a lot. Plus the seller is offering a money-back guarantee. I'm thinking it would probably be worth it just to find out.
What I can say with relative confidence is it has to be either the inner or outer basket, and most likely the outer. Again, I'm really thinking its the springs loose in the back knocking around. I'm thinking I might go out again tonight when I get home, remove the clutch, and see if I can find a way to wedge something underneath the springs to hold them in place. Then I'll put it back together and run it (at idle only) just to see if it makes a difference.
The one I'm looking at on eBay notes a little movement in the springs, mine is a lot. Plus the seller is offering a money-back guarantee. I'm thinking it would probably be worth it just to find out.
Didn't get a chance to tear in to it last night, and I'll be out of town for the next little bit starting tomorrow. By the time I get back, my eBay order of a used clutch should be here. Hopefully I'll have an update posted before the end of next week (and hopefully with good news lol).
Along with the clutch, I've also got a fuel injector coming in to hopefully clear up a slight miss. I metered out the injectors once the miss didn't clear up after changing plugs, fuel, and checking the coils (it needed plugs anyway); one injector was out of spec - hopefully this will clear it up. If not, I'll be posting another thread haha. Then a quick exhaust change (going back to stock), and then I'll move on to cosmetics -- fingers crossed!
Updates to follow...
-Nick
Along with the clutch, I've also got a fuel injector coming in to hopefully clear up a slight miss. I metered out the injectors once the miss didn't clear up after changing plugs, fuel, and checking the coils (it needed plugs anyway); one injector was out of spec - hopefully this will clear it up. If not, I'll be posting another thread haha. Then a quick exhaust change (going back to stock), and then I'll move on to cosmetics -- fingers crossed!
Updates to follow...
-Nick
Update:
I received the new (used) clutch - which was the COMPLETE assembly - and put it in last night. Guess what? The noise was still these, as loud as ever. After a long cussing tangent and talking myself out of kicking the bike over a couple of times, I decided to regroup, and at least get some useful work done on the bike before the end of the night.
As I mentioned before, the bike had a miss. Coils and plugs were good. One injector metered bad (10.6 ohms when it was supposed to be 11-12), so I ordered another one with the clutch. I pulled the fuel rails/injectors and MAN, were those things dirty! With the exception of the number one cylinder, all the primary (lower) injectors were filthy, to the point you couldn't see the nozzle holes. To add to that, some good chunks of blue/green/white junk were all in the fuel rail. I did some youtube-ing and decided to follow this method for cleaning them out:
I did spray them off and scrub them a little with a soft nylon brush first, and I let them sit in some paint solvent (urethane reducer) I had laying around for about an hour or so, then finished up with what the video said. I also flushed the junk out of the rails with some brake cleaner (I was running low on carb cleaner) and blew it all out with air.
After all this, I put it back together, hit the key, and BAM - that thing fired like a champ! Revved 10 times faster than it has before, sounds smooth as silk, and to top all that off, THE CLUTCH KNOCK WAS GONE - like, totally gone. Apparently the miss caused by the injectors was causing some herky-jerky on the crank that resonated through the clutch basket - who would have thought? Anyway, had some celebratory beers, sit and revved it up for a while, then called it a night.
That said, I do have a spare clutch and fuel injector, along with some good lessons learned turning wrenches on this bike lol.
Here's a couple of pics of what I found in the injectors...I wish I would have taken more. You can see the spraying head is all clogged up, as well as some good chunks in the fuel rail end:
***Sorry, turns out I can't post these from this particular computer (blockers on a company machine). I'll try to remember and post them when I get home tonight.
-Nick
I received the new (used) clutch - which was the COMPLETE assembly - and put it in last night. Guess what? The noise was still these, as loud as ever. After a long cussing tangent and talking myself out of kicking the bike over a couple of times, I decided to regroup, and at least get some useful work done on the bike before the end of the night.
As I mentioned before, the bike had a miss. Coils and plugs were good. One injector metered bad (10.6 ohms when it was supposed to be 11-12), so I ordered another one with the clutch. I pulled the fuel rails/injectors and MAN, were those things dirty! With the exception of the number one cylinder, all the primary (lower) injectors were filthy, to the point you couldn't see the nozzle holes. To add to that, some good chunks of blue/green/white junk were all in the fuel rail. I did some youtube-ing and decided to follow this method for cleaning them out:
I did spray them off and scrub them a little with a soft nylon brush first, and I let them sit in some paint solvent (urethane reducer) I had laying around for about an hour or so, then finished up with what the video said. I also flushed the junk out of the rails with some brake cleaner (I was running low on carb cleaner) and blew it all out with air.
After all this, I put it back together, hit the key, and BAM - that thing fired like a champ! Revved 10 times faster than it has before, sounds smooth as silk, and to top all that off, THE CLUTCH KNOCK WAS GONE - like, totally gone. Apparently the miss caused by the injectors was causing some herky-jerky on the crank that resonated through the clutch basket - who would have thought? Anyway, had some celebratory beers, sit and revved it up for a while, then called it a night.
That said, I do have a spare clutch and fuel injector, along with some good lessons learned turning wrenches on this bike lol.
Here's a couple of pics of what I found in the injectors...I wish I would have taken more. You can see the spraying head is all clogged up, as well as some good chunks in the fuel rail end:
***Sorry, turns out I can't post these from this particular computer (blockers on a company machine). I'll try to remember and post them when I get home tonight.
-Nick
EchoBase
Registered
Nick,
Thank you for the update!
I absolutely did not see that coming at all!
At all at all
I think this was a unique situation where the logical progression of troubleshooting didn't point us in the right direction.
You were right to move on to something else for the time being when your new clutch basket did not solve the issue.
A good lesson in not giving up, seriously.
If you can not get anywhere with a problem I leave it completely and go work on something else. Many times the solution presents itself when you return to the original problem after a break.
Many problems are not necessarily costly fixes but they do involve a lot of looking into and testing before actually changing or trying something.
Sometimes people try to fix an issue several different ways unsuccessfully and are understandably frustrated.
Then they come to the forum looking for answers and do have much more patience left to follow direction to troubleshoot correctly.
Rather, in a last ditch effort, they resort to randomly throwing parts at the problem they hope will fix it. When it doesn't they give up.
Not sure why I wrote all that.
Lets mark this SOLVED!!!
Thank you for the update!
I absolutely did not see that coming at all!
At all at all
I think this was a unique situation where the logical progression of troubleshooting didn't point us in the right direction.
You were right to move on to something else for the time being when your new clutch basket did not solve the issue.
A good lesson in not giving up, seriously.
If you can not get anywhere with a problem I leave it completely and go work on something else. Many times the solution presents itself when you return to the original problem after a break.
Many problems are not necessarily costly fixes but they do involve a lot of looking into and testing before actually changing or trying something.
Sometimes people try to fix an issue several different ways unsuccessfully and are understandably frustrated.
Then they come to the forum looking for answers and do have much more patience left to follow direction to troubleshoot correctly.
Rather, in a last ditch effort, they resort to randomly throwing parts at the problem they hope will fix it. When it doesn't they give up.
Not sure why I wrote all that.
Lets mark this SOLVED!!!
