Christmas is For Christ?  NOT!

(Black Bird Killer @ Dec. 13 2006,18:44)
(Aughtsix @ Dec. 13 2006,21:41)
(Black Bird Killer @ Dec. 13 2006,18:15) At any rate, I was merely pointing out that many scriptures like the Levitical laws and the ones Rev quoted are forgotten about or otherwise overlooked.  
I wouldn't say they're "forgotten about" or "overlooked" as much as ancient Jewish cultural laws having no applicability to the New Covenant...

And Rev - the 'classic' Rapture passages are 1 Cor 15:52 and 2 Thes 2:1-12.
I guess that part where "I am the same yeterday, today and tomorrow"  only counts when you want it to
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Okay, this one is my last post.  Guess I lied in that last one
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So now you apply a passage God spoke of Himself to Jewish cultural laws?

How do you make that leap??

But since you've made your last post in this thread I'll answer my own question -- that leap can't reasonably be made.
 
Rev, I hear ya. Whether I am in the majority or not, I think the majority will ALWAYS call the shots - right or wrong. I don't get why people cave when ONE or TWO people whine about something. Go ahead and hang David stars, or pentagrams on your house, I will pass by, notice, and say nothing against it. Hang them in the airports I dont care. i think the entire hoopla is a joke - like frivoloous lawsuits. Now, if you hang something obviously disrespectful, a bleeding goats head, a burning flag, etc. I WILL step up and say something, as every decent person should.

back in HS, someone whined about singing Christmas carols in a school production and the songs got yanked. EVERYONE in chorus was mad and complained. If whoever it was didn't want to sing those, they should have simply been allowed to NOT sing them and get the grade. Instead if affected EVERYBODY's attitude. Such crap. Sorry I think I'm off topic again. hmmmmmm...

we're looking up verses now? Man, I stink at that! Lets just get some hot coco and sing some carols....

"Silent night.... holy night.... "
"The first... noel... the angels did sing..."
"Jinglebell jinglebell jinglebell rock...."
"O Christmas tree, O Christmas tree....."
"Oh teh weather outside is frightfull...."
 
(Aughtsix @ Dec. 13 2006,21:58)
(Black Bird Killer @ Dec. 13 2006,18:44)
(Aughtsix @ Dec. 13 2006,21:41)
(Black Bird Killer @ Dec. 13 2006,18:15) At any rate, I was merely pointing out that many scriptures like the Levitical laws and the ones Rev quoted are forgotten about or otherwise overlooked.  
I wouldn't say they're "forgotten about" or "overlooked" as much as ancient Jewish cultural laws having no applicability to the New Covenant...

And Rev - the 'classic' Rapture passages are 1 Cor 15:52 and 2 Thes 2:1-12.
I guess that part where "I am the same yeterday, today and tomorrow"  only counts when you want it to
rock.gif








Okay, this one is my last post.  Guess I lied in that last one
tounge.gif
So now you apply a passage God spoke of Himself to Jewish cultural laws?

How do you make that leap??

But since you've made your last post in this thread I'll answer my own question  --  that leap can't reasonably be made.
I cant resist,
biggrin.gif
. So, you dont think that God meant that He is the same from the begining of the Bible to the end? Matter of interpretation I guess. Since we are referring to Lev 19, go ahead and read verse 29. Dont you think that this should be obeyed today? So why not verse 28? I feel that they should still be obeyed. Not saying that you are wrong, merely how I feel.
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Feel free to enlighten me.
 
Here is a really simple thought that should put and end to the debate of what Christmas truly means. It means what you BELIEVE it means. The catholic church took a pagan holiday and turned it into one celebrating the birth of my saviour. Good for them.
Ever since I was a child (even before I had accepted His gift) I celebrated Christmas and was told it was Jesus' birthday. Nobody told me how it originated to be on Dec 25 and the history behind it. I wouldn't have cared then and I don't care now as it will not change anything. Stating that Christmas has nothing to do with Christ is rediculous. I celebrate Christmas as the Birthday of Jesus even though I know it is not the actual calender date. That makes it Christ related. Period.
On the same note, you decide April 1 is "eat vanilla pudding day" and decorate your house with empty boxes of pudding mix all over a nilla wafer tree. for me to say that April 1 has nothing to do with pudding is just plain stupid of me. It is plain to see that you are celebrating "eat vanilla pudding day" on April 1 so apparently it DOES have something to do with it. Does it matter to you that it originally was April Fools day? no. You're too busy looking for nilla wafers to care.
It all boils down to the wonderful freedoms we enjoy in this country. if you want to celebrate Kwanza . knock yourself out. If you wanna celebrate Channakuh ( sp?) Enjoy yourself and don't burn your fingers ;) the majority of people celebrate Christmas as the day Christ was born. We know it's not factual and we don't care. It's a day somebody chose for whatever reason and we really don't care what that reason was. Christmas is what it is because we choose to believe it so. Your book of what December 25 was 500 years ago means squat.
This is gonna sound stupid at first but try and see my meaning. Don't judge Christianity by the Christians. As stated before, Christian means Christ-Like. VERY few Christians have reached that goal. Unfortunately there are many famous followers of Christ that have done more damage than good by being in the spotlight. I summon the memory of Pat Robertson. You think Jesus would call for the asassination of Chavez? Think you'd ever see Jesus on tv saying God was gonna take him home if he didn't get a million dollars by next Tuesday? If you want to see what Christianity is truly about you can only find it by reading the Bible. I recommend getting the translation called "The Message" it is not a direct translation. It is a book based on the bible written in modern contemporary language theat is really easy to understand. Since it is one persons translation, it is not meant to be your life guide. It is a tool that makes it easier to undersand the message within the Bible. It's easy to get lost in thee thou's and therefore's. This removes those and puts it into our everday language just as the original scrolls were written in the diction of the times they were written.

Pinks is on ...gotta go
beerchug.gif
 
Hi, I am a christian and I too get tired of hearing and seeing so called christians at church on sunday acting like they are best buds with christ and then see them later in the week acting just the opposite. it gives true christians a bad name! and i'm also shocked when i hear so called christians trying to "preach" to other christians and non christians and when you listen to them they don't have clue what they are talking about they just want everybody to think they are mr.christian!!
 
(WWJD @ Dec. 13 2006,21:01) Rev, I hear ya.  Whether I am in the majority or not, I think the majority will ALWAYS call the shots - right or wrong.  I don't get why people cave when ONE or TWO people whine about something.  Go ahead and hang David stars, or pentagrams on your house, I will pass by, notice, and say nothing against it.  Hang them in the airports I dont care.  i think the entire hoopla is a joke - like frivoloous lawsuits.   Now, if you hang something obviously disrespectful, a bleeding goats head, a burning flag, etc.  I WILL step up and say something, as every decent person should.

back in HS, someone whined about singing Christmas carols in a school production and the songs  got yanked.  EVERYONE in chorus was mad and complained.  If whoever it was didn't want to sing those, they should have simply been allowed to NOT sing them and get the grade.  Instead if affected EVERYBODY's attitude.  Such crap.   Sorry I think I'm off topic again.  hmmmmmm...

we're looking up verses now?  Man, I stink at that!   Lets just get some hot coco and sing some carols....

"Silent  night.... holy night.... "
"The first... noel... the angels did sing..."
"Jinglebell jinglebell jinglebell rock...."
"O Christmas tree, O Christmas tree....."
"Oh teh weather outside is frightfull...."
+1.....
That makes two of us and Merry Christmas to all of my Org family! God bless...
 
(Black Bird Killer @ Dec. 13 2006,18:42) My last post in this thread.  I never celebrated Christmas as a child because of the scriptures Rev was quoting.  I agree that Christmas was originated by the Catholic church, changing a Pagan holiday to a Christian holiday.  That being said, we celebrate Christmas.  I will not deprive my kids of Christmas day.  I will not make them go to school and try to explain why they didn't get any presents.  I had to do that and it was really humiliating.  However, my kids will not think santa brings them presents.  I teach them that Christmas is the day we celebrate the birth of Jesus.  So, to all, however you celebrate it - MERRY CHRISTMAS.
Merry Christmas brother !
 
(Black Bird Killer @ Dec. 13 2006,19:26) I cant resist,
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.  So, you dont think that God meant that He is the same from the begining of the Bible to the end?
With one correction - that God said He is the same yesterday, today and forever, not just within the span of the Bible - that's exactly what I believe scripture records God said of Himself.

 Since we are referring to Lev 19, go ahead and read verse 29.  Dont you think that this should be obeyed today?  So why not verse 28?  I feel that they should still be obeyed.  Not saying that you are wrong, merely how I feel.
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Feel free to enlighten me. [/Quote]

Bear in mind that we're dealing with numerous facets of law  --  why not adhere to Levitical Law, for instance?  Why not refrain from eating shellfish?  Why not bring forward the Sacrificial Ordinances?

Does it make sense to you when I suggest that if you're going to bring forward part of the Law you, reasonably, have to bring forward ALL of the Law?  And if you bring forward all of the Law, you bind yourself to all of the Law unless the Christ, the Lawgiver, makes a distinction.

Now, Christ DID make a distinction when He said that upon these two Commandments hang all the Law and Prophets - That we are to love God with all our hearts and love our neighbor as ourselves.

Obviously, ancient Jewish cultural laws don't fall in that group - they were Laws dealing specifically with culture and traditions.

This is not to say that you can't adhere to dietary laws if you wish, for instance - just that it's not a Biblical requirement.

Otherwise many of you wouldn't be here today.  You do know, don't you, that rebellious youth were to be taken outside the city and stoned to death...
 
(Aughtsix @ Dec. 14 2006,09:52) Otherwise many of you wouldn't be here today.  You do know, don't you, that rebellious youth were to be taken outside the city and stoned to death...
When I was a rebellious youth I got stoned to death a lot......well, not literally
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By the way............MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!!
 
He He... I copied down the Gimpy Version, the version of the Bible that eliminates alot of guess work and flowery language that was felt by some to be prohibitive. Out of Context sure, but still: Leviticus 11:3-40 (Today's New International Version)


3 You may eat any animal that has a divided hoof and that chews the cud.

4 " 'There are some that only chew the cud or only have a divided hoof, but you must not eat them. The camel, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is ceremonially unclean for you. 5 The hyrax, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is unclean for you. 6 The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is unclean for you. 7 And the pig, though it has a divided hoof, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. 8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you.

9 " 'Of all the creatures living in the water of the seas and the streams you may eat any that have fins and scales. 10 But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales—whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water—you are to regard as unclean. 11 And since you are to regard them as unclean, you must not eat their meat; you must regard their carcasses as unclean. 12 Anything living in the water that does not have fins and scales is to be regarded as unclean by you.

13 " 'These are the birds you are to regard as unclean and not eat because they are unclean: the eagle, [a] the vulture, the black vulture, 14 the red kite, any kind of black kite, 15 any kind of raven, 16 the horned owl, the screech owl, the gull, any kind of hawk, 17 the little owl, the cormorant, the great owl, 18 the white owl, the desert owl, the osprey, 19 the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat.

20 " 'All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be regarded as unclean by you. 21 There are, however, some flying insects that walk on all fours that you may eat: those that have jointed legs for hopping on the ground. 22 Of these you may eat any kind of locust, katydid, cricket or grasshopper. 23 But all other flying insects that have four legs you are to regard as unclean.

24 " 'You will make yourselves unclean by these; whoever touches their carcasses will be unclean till evening. 25 Whoever picks up one of their carcasses must wash their clothes, and they will be unclean till evening.

26 " 'Every animal that does not have a divided hoof or that does not chew the cud is unclean for you; whoever touches the carcass of any of them will be unclean. 27 Of all the animals that walk on all fours, those that walk on their paws are unclean for you; whoever touches their carcasses will be unclean till evening. 28 Anyone who picks up their carcasses must wash their clothes, and they will be unclean till evening. These animals are unclean for you.

29 " 'Of the animals that move about on the ground, these are unclean for you: the weasel, the rat, any kind of great lizard, 30 the gecko, the monitor lizard, the wall lizard, the skink and the chameleon. 31 Of all those that move along the ground, these are unclean for you. Whoever touches them when they are dead will be unclean till evening. 32 When one of them dies and falls on something, that article, whatever its use, will be unclean, whether it is made of wood, cloth, hide or sackcloth. Put it in water; it will be unclean till evening, and then it will be clean. 33 If one of them falls into a clay pot, everything in it will be unclean, and you must break the pot. 34 Any food you are allowed to eat that has come into contact with water from any such pot is unclean, and any liquid that is drunk from such a pot is unclean. 35 Anything that one of their carcasses falls on becomes unclean; an oven or cooking pot must be broken up. They are unclean, and you are to regard them as unclean. 36 A spring, however, or a cistern for collecting water remains clean, but anyone who touches one of these carcasses is unclean. 37 If a carcass falls on any seeds that are to be planted, they remain clean. 38 But if water has been put on the seed and a carcass falls on it, it is unclean for you.

39 " 'If an animal that you are allowed to eat dies, anyone who touches its carcass will be unclean till evening. 40 Anyone who eats some of its carcass must wash their clothes, and they will be unclean till evening. Anyone who picks up the carcass must wash their clothes, and they will be unclean till evening.

There's more, but what cracks me up is the assertion that THIS Cooking Class was provided by the Lord. Doesn't seem odd that the creator would concern himself with this? I mean really, he continues to let Hellish things happen all around the world, including his "chosen" peoples, BUT, he's going to feed this data through a medium for inclusion in his book???

YEAH, OK sure. But It sounds a whole lot more like a handbook of collected information regarding food handling from the local eldar. You want to be taken seriously? Heck, Tell em' God Said so...

But I love some of these laws.
 
(MoosesBusa @ Dec. 13 2006,20:07) Here is a really simple thought that should put and end to the debate of what Christmas truly means. It means what you BELIEVE it means. The catholic church took a pagan holiday and turned it into one celebrating the birth of my saviour. Good for them.
Ever since I was a child (even before I had accepted His gift) I celebrated Christmas and was told it was Jesus' birthday. Nobody told me how it originated to be on Dec 25 and the history behind it. I wouldn't have cared then and I don't care now as it will not change anything. Stating that Christmas has nothing to do with Christ is rediculous. I celebrate Christmas as the Birthday of Jesus even though I know it is not the actual calender date. That makes it Christ related. Period.
On the same note, you decide April 1 is "eat vanilla pudding day" and decorate your house with empty boxes of pudding mix all over a nilla wafer tree. for me to say that April 1 has nothing to do with pudding is just plain stupid of me. It is plain to see that you are celebrating "eat vanilla pudding day" on April 1 so apparently it DOES have something to do with it. Does it matter to you that it originally was April Fools day? no. You're too busy looking for nilla wafers to care.
It all boils down to the wonderful freedoms we enjoy in this country. if you want to celebrate Kwanza . knock yourself out. If you wanna celebrate Channakuh ( sp?) Enjoy yourself and don't burn your fingers ;) the majority of people celebrate Christmas as the day Christ was born. We know it's not factual and we don't care. It's a day somebody chose for whatever reason and we really don't care what that reason was. Christmas is what it is because we choose to believe it so. Your book of what December 25 was 500 years ago means squat.
This is gonna sound stupid at first but try and see my meaning. Don't judge Christianity by the Christians. As stated before, Christian means Christ-Like. VERY few Christians have reached that goal. Unfortunately there are many famous followers of Christ that have done more damage than good by being in the spotlight. I summon the memory of Pat Robertson. You think Jesus would call for the asassination of Chavez? Think you'd ever see Jesus on tv saying God was gonna take him home if he didn't get a million dollars by next Tuesday? If you want to see what Christianity is truly about you can only find it by reading the Bible. I recommend getting the translation called "The Message" it is not a direct translation. It is a book based on the bible written in modern contemporary language theat is really easy to understand. Since it is one persons translation, it is not meant to be your life guide. It is a tool that makes it easier to undersand the message within the Bible. It's easy to get lost in thee thou's and therefore's. This removes those and puts it into our everday language just as the original scrolls were written in the diction of the times they were written.

Pinks is on ...gotta go
beerchug.gif
Mooses, I missed this earlier.

It's a good point, and as I mentioned at the end of my initial post, MORE POWER TO THE MAJORITY... It's how it should be in this country... I sure as hell do not want to see the Holiday go away.

However, I believe that a VAST majority of Christians do NOT realize that the 25th is NOT Christs Birthday. No, I'm pretty sure for the most part there is a group denial in action. A cult like group think that has washed over it's followers, it's in the music, the adoption of symbols, and even in the sermons you'll hear across the country and indeed the world. About how this is Christs birthday and Blah Blah Blah...

If there is a more clear cut example of the grip the Church has on the minds of the followers it could only be Easter...

So I do not want to see Christmas go away, it does a lot of good for the economy and by design or accident it stirs up the guilt in the hoards who at least this time of year, decide it's OK to give to those less fortunate. No, I would just like the majority to realize that the symbols and idols in their lives, and indeed the dates and Holiday itself, is nothing more than pagan tradition with window dressing and Fairy tale...
 
(Revlis @ Dec. 22 2006,14:23) However, I believe that a VAST majority of Christians do NOT realize that the 25th is NOT Christs Birthday.   No, I'm pretty sure for the most part there is a group denial in action.  A cult like group think that has washed over it's followers, it's in the music, the adoption of symbols, and even in the sermons you'll hear across the country and indeed the world.  About how this is Christs birthday and Blah Blah Blah...

If there is a more clear cut example of the grip the Church has on the minds of the followers it could only be Easter...

So I do not want to see Christmas go away, it does a lot of good for the economy and by design or accident it stirs up the guilt in the hoards who at least this time of year, decide it's OK to give to those less fortunate.   No, I would just like the majority to realize that the symbols and idols in their lives, and indeed the dates and Holiday itself, is nothing more than pagan tradition with window dressing and Fairy tale...
Rev - I truly don't want to appear to be 'analyzing' your post cuz it's all in good fun, but frankly, it's a mess of logical fallacies
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For instance, "Dicto Simpliciter", or Sweeping Generalization.  This is the fallacy of making a statement expecting it to be true, or classic stereotyping.

Following, "Argumentum ad Numerum", or an Appeal to Numbers. This is the fallacy of attempting to prove something by showing how many people believe that it's true.

Example:  Stating that the "a VAST majority of Christians do NOT realize that the 25th is NOT Christs Birthday".

Also, "Argumentum ad Logicam", or Argument to Logic.  This is the fallacy of assuming that something is false in its entirety simply because some part of it fails a logical test or is assumed to be invalid.

Following, "Non Sequitur", meaning "It does not follow".  This is the fallacy of stating a conclusion that does not follow from the premise.  

Example:  Stating that the "dates and Holiday itself, is nothing more than pagan tradition with window dressing and Fairy tale".

Lastly, "Petitio Principii", or"Begging the Question.  This is the fallacy of assuming the validity or 'rightness' of what you are trying to prove based simply on your belief that it's true.


I realize you're doing this to pull strings and have fun, so Merry Christmas!!

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(Revlis @ Dec. 14 2006,18:47) He He...  I copied down the Gimpy Version, the version of the Bible that eliminates alot of guess work and flowery language that was felt by some to be prohibitive.  Out of Context sure, but still: Leviticus 11:3-40 (Today's New International Version)


3 You may eat any animal that has a divided hoof and that chews the cud.

   4 " 'There are some that only chew the cud or only have a divided hoof, but you must not eat them. The camel, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is ceremonially unclean for you. 5 The hyrax, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is unclean for you. 6 The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is unclean for you. 7 And the pig, though it has a divided hoof, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. 8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you.

   9 " 'Of all the creatures living in the water of the seas and the streams you may eat any that have fins and scales. 10 But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales—whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water—you are to regard as unclean. 11 And since you are to regard them as unclean, you must not eat their meat; you must regard their carcasses as unclean. 12 Anything living in the water that does not have fins and scales is to be regarded as unclean by you.

   13 " 'These are the birds you are to regard as unclean and not eat because they are unclean: the eagle, [a] the vulture, the black vulture, 14 the red kite, any kind of black kite, 15 any kind of raven, 16 the horned owl, the screech owl, the gull, any kind of hawk, 17 the little owl, the cormorant, the great owl, 18 the white owl, the desert owl, the osprey, 19 the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat.

   20 " 'All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be regarded as unclean by you. 21 There are, however, some flying insects that walk on all fours that you may eat: those that have jointed legs for hopping on the ground. 22 Of these you may eat any kind of locust, katydid, cricket or grasshopper. 23 But all other flying insects that have four legs you are to regard as unclean.

   24 " 'You will make yourselves unclean by these; whoever touches their carcasses will be unclean till evening. 25 Whoever picks up one of their carcasses must wash their clothes, and they will be unclean till evening.

   26 " 'Every animal that does not have a divided hoof or that does not chew the cud is unclean for you; whoever touches the carcass of any of them will be unclean. 27 Of all the animals that walk on all fours, those that walk on their paws are unclean for you; whoever touches their carcasses will be unclean till evening. 28 Anyone who picks up their carcasses must wash their clothes, and they will be unclean till evening. These animals are unclean for you.

   29 " 'Of the animals that move about on the ground, these are unclean for you: the weasel, the rat, any kind of great lizard, 30 the gecko, the monitor lizard, the wall lizard, the skink and the chameleon. 31 Of all those that move along the ground, these are unclean for you. Whoever touches them when they are dead will be unclean till evening. 32 When one of them dies and falls on something, that article, whatever its use, will be unclean, whether it is made of wood, cloth, hide or sackcloth. Put it in water; it will be unclean till evening, and then it will be clean. 33 If one of them falls into a clay pot, everything in it will be unclean, and you must break the pot. 34 Any food you are allowed to eat that has come into contact with water from any such pot is unclean, and any liquid that is drunk from such a pot is unclean. 35 Anything that one of their carcasses falls on becomes unclean; an oven or cooking pot must be broken up. They are unclean, and you are to regard them as unclean. 36 A spring, however, or a cistern for collecting water remains clean, but anyone who touches one of these carcasses is unclean. 37 If a carcass falls on any seeds that are to be planted, they remain clean. 38 But if water has been put on the seed and a carcass falls on it, it is unclean for you.

   39 " 'If an animal that you are allowed to eat dies, anyone who touches its carcass will be unclean till evening. 40 Anyone who eats some of its carcass must wash their clothes, and they will be unclean till evening. Anyone who picks up the carcass must wash their clothes, and they will be unclean till evening.

There's more, but what cracks me up is the assertion that THIS Cooking Class was provided by the Lord.  Doesn't seem odd that the creator would concern himself with this?  I mean really, he continues to let Hellish things happen all around the world, including his "chosen" peoples, BUT, he's going to feed this data through a medium for inclusion in his book???  

YEAH, OK  sure.  But It sounds a whole lot more like a handbook of collected information regarding food handling from the local eldar.  You want to be taken seriously?  Heck, Tell em' God Said so...  

But I love some of these laws.
First us Christians, and now you are laughing at every othodox Jewish person who follows a kosher diet. Anyone else you want to poke at while you're at it?










Rev, Merry Christmas
 
it was my understanding that early pegans were earth worshipers
(more like hippies)

and when the church started on their "control all man kick" they deemed the pegans bad,because they would not be controlled.


the scary thing that come to my thoughts are if the pope wants everyone to start to worship,anything,lets see heres an example.....pen caps,then everyone would run out and decorate their homes with them and make pen cap shrines............what i'm getting at sounds stupid....but if you think about it its just a world game of ...........simon says




don't burn me at the stake........just my .02
 
A true Christian is someone who is filled with belief that has been taught through the word of the lord whether by parents, friends or a book and strives to live to the best of his ability as he believes. I happen to have been taught that Christmas is how I celebrate the birth of Christ. Our Lord gave us a gift that will never be replaced by money or materialistic gifts. He gave us the gift of faith, hope and love for one another. And this I do believe. As far as buying gifts  on Christmas, I was taught you do this to show your appreciation to that person for being your friend, family member, the one you love or a stranger that needs your help not to try and match the gift giving that the Lord gave us, for that gift will never be matched by anyone or anything.  Just my 2 cents worth.

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Wow. All this over giving a name to a day that we're unsure, and even then we do it on the wrong day! Christmas, on his birthday when? and supposedly on the shortest day in some celebration of the coming of spring, yet the shortest day is 21 or 22 Dec, depending on the alignment of the (oh no) solar system!

As for the Kosher part, might want to finish the grocery list, it gets much more entertaining that that, like no two foods from the same animal or source, etc... very difficult to try and get accustomed too if you weren't raised that way.

Enjoy the rest of the year and be safe everyone.
 
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