Robert 0046
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DME
Brock's penta carbon or M4 exhaust
- Thread starter Busa3Bro
- Start date
R&D also makes gen3 exhaust mount brackets/passenger peg deletes, and for both sides.
Thanks.
SS4Luck
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I wish I had better answers for you. But modern liter bikes are lighter and make more power. They check the two important boxes for winning races.
My bike runs with the pack, sometimes I win 40-160 if I steal the hit lol. But 9/10 times I’m not the first one across the finish line. It’s why I’m going turbo lol
I wonder if gen2 cams would be enough to give you more top end to be more competetive against the 1k's?
SS4Luck
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I feel like at that point just going aftermarket heads/cam would be the answer. A lot of work to swap in stock cams that we already know the potential of.
When I pull the motor out to go retarded with the boost I plan on doing double Gen 2 intake cams though lol
SS4Luck
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I beat R1/R1Ms reliably. Probably 80% of the time. My group has 4 or 5 of them so I know it’s not rider.
I don’t think I’ve ever beat a K67/BMW and 18+ Gixxers are 70/30 their favor.
FWIW, racing and draggy say my bike is quickest 18/42. I used to think that it was because it made 1st fear a little easier to ride out in the hit. But I’m starting to think it’s just because it puts so much of the acceleration directly in this motors powerband. I’ve ran 2 other Gen 3s with different gearing, one was 18/44 one was 17/44 and they both pulled ahead but as soon as mine was in the top of second and into third I came around them quickly.
I enjoy riding 18/44 most when I’m group riding or not out actually racing. If we’re gonna have a night that is gonna be 60 rolls or just messing around I’ll leave the 44 in but if we’re out for an actual race night the 42 goes on. I’ve tried everything from 18/40-18/46 fwiw
I don’t think I’ve ever beat a K67/BMW and 18+ Gixxers are 70/30 their favor.
FWIW, racing and draggy say my bike is quickest 18/42. I used to think that it was because it made 1st fear a little easier to ride out in the hit. But I’m starting to think it’s just because it puts so much of the acceleration directly in this motors powerband. I’ve ran 2 other Gen 3s with different gearing, one was 18/44 one was 17/44 and they both pulled ahead but as soon as mine was in the top of second and into third I came around them quickly.
I enjoy riding 18/44 most when I’m group riding or not out actually racing. If we’re gonna have a night that is gonna be 60 rolls or just messing around I’ll leave the 44 in but if we’re out for an actual race night the 42 goes on. I’ve tried everything from 18/40-18/46 fwiw
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pcs
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i think a big issue with the 3rd gen is suzuki matches all the intake parts for low to midrange hp. swapping stacks and filter alone isnt enough bc the throttle bodies are too small and the cams need for lift/duration. the gxsr has larger and shorter TB for less cc’s of displacement and more aggressive cams. it makes sense a larger engine is choking at higher rpm with smaller TBs. wondering if swapping TBs or boring the stock units will address that. with the cams, webb can regrind the stocks to whatever you want.
SS4Luck
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*all of this is hypothetical and going off of my knowledge building LSx engines*
I can’t see the TBs being an impressionable factor. I believe they’re only 2-3mm smaller than Gen 2 stuff, and there are monster n/a bikes running around in stock TBs (both of EJRs flagship bikes are stock TB max effort 1441 and stock TB max effort 1600? 1600+? The world doesn’t know). My Z06 makes the same power through a 90mm TB that it does a 102mm TB. I’m sure there is power that can be found going to bigger TBs but I don’t think it’s necessary. Turns into the Sprint vs DNA vs stock air filter debate on price of .2hp being noticed or worth it.
I haven’t dug much into the Gen 3 top end beyond what’s been shared by CM about cam size being smaller (which isn’t hard to figure out watching the way Gen 2 and Gen 3 make power across a pull. I’m going to assume, like every Busa before them the Gen 3 just has a shitty head port/port geometry. I think this is where the redesigned top end is focused on ride ability and mid range seat of your pants power vs making 205whp full bolt on and flash. I’ve seen a few results of Carpenters Gen 3 builds and whatever they do to the top end really makes these engines happy, but a CNC head port and custom cams should in any engine right?
I’m wondering who has and is going to just swap a stock Gen 2 top end onto a Gen 3 bottom end and see what it does. Idk if the rotating assembly is not is noticeably different, but there are enough ported Gen 2 heads floating around out there it could save someone some money vs a fresh head port.
In the car world I’ve never worried too much about head flow on and FI application. Just throw more boost at it and let the turbo force the air past the bad angles. That’s kinda the logic I’m taking with the Gen 3 build. Intercooled turbo, stock motor, flex fuel, 6-8psi 240-250hp and cruise. Then next year or when I hurt the stock motor I’m just gonna throw rods, pistons, head studs and valve springs in it and turbo the turbo up. The intake intake cam combo is proven in boosted applications so drop in cams are easy and worth it, but boost kinda takes the science or guess work out of power band and head port and cam profiles for a freeway raced bike at least.
It’ll be interesting to see 2-3 years from now if the top end parts have been developed or if the fast guys just dump Gen 2 heads and cam onto them and let it eat.
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pcs
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the confusing can come from assuming swapping factory spec parts will yield similar results on different engines. your example of a zo6 not gaining much hp. depends on engine size, rev range, etc. going from a 90mm to 102mm on a ls6 z06 will be different from the same swap on a ls7 z06. both ls motors, different top ends. also, id hold off saying the gen3 has bad ports unless you have flow chart #s to back that claim. staying with ls analogies, the ls3 and l9h have the same displacement and architecture. many similarities and parts can easily swap from both. the truck version however has a combination of parts that are swapped from the factory to produce power earlier. valvetrain and intake components have a big effect on hp delivery. bc the motors are setup different, swapping in the same long tube headers on a factory ls3 vs l9h will not have the same output.
I'm curious where I would stand. Haven't raced it yet. Currently running 17/42. I plan on running my friend with a 2016 Zx14. He only has a tune as far as I know but probably still is in the 190 range where I'm at best 185hp based on others dynographs. Only reason for my gearing was to get just a little more acceleration and get as much extension from the factory swing arm as possible. B4 that I had 18/41. I'm confused though as I've seen some pictures of others where it appears they notched the swing arm to allow the the chain adjuster to hang out the back. Looks that way on the Hyper Busa also. Something I'd like to try but concerned about the overall strength. Also my poor abused LS1 ran a best of 11.0 at 130. If I ever get it back together it should be about 10.5ish now. So many projects and not enough money to fund them all.....
And sorry for going off topic. I would still love to have a dual M4 full exhaust. The single side is just so asymmetrical!
SS4Luck
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Oh ya LS guys are a good time plague, no offense taken ever Lolol.
I’m excited to see what the big engine shops start doing with a Gen 3 head. The first builds I saw hinted that they went back to Gen 2 stuff and that’s where a lot of my comments came from. After spending all the time I did building race engines, and thinking with my own car both N/A and FI I laugh (quietly to myself) when I see street people focusing on and making huge deals over small pieces of the puzzle that they swear are going to make them the new Kye Kelley.
SS4Luck
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Most of us here are better at going off topic, you just fit right in.
I’m curious to see how you like the 17/42 and the results you get from it. If 60/2nd gear rolls are your thing I bet you’ll like it quite a bit! The notching of the swingarm happens on a lot of bikes, most people just don’t talk about it. My first swingarm was an evil 0-4 to keep the wheelbase managed as well. 2-2.5” seemed to be the sweet spot, but I found myself having to ride it more than I wanted to more regularly on 1st gear hits and just went +5 to make it easier for myself
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