Brake Pads & Clutch/Brake Fluid Lessons Learned...


JINKSTER

I Love my Wife!
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#1
So...days away from leaving for the fall bash found me pulling some 10K mile maint. on O-Ren...in which i gleened some serious info from...in two areas of concern...the first?...

CHANGING OUT HYDRAULIC CLUTCH/BRAKE FLUID:

Points of interest here where....

1. "The Mighty Vac" is the best invention since crackerjacks....turning what would normally be an aggravating 1-1 1/2 hour lonnnnng JOB into a simple 15 minute affair as H.org member Dakkine2 ran over and loaned me his..cool as hell on both mighty vac and Dakkines part..and imnsho?...it's now officially a...."Must Have..for any bike owners toolbox..literally worth it's weight in gold.

2. My Fluids in the windows of my 3 year old 10K+ miles baby known as O-Ren where starting to look like the old "coppertone tan" commercials...so i knew a fluid changeout was maybe slightly more than "overdue"....at worst case....so?...I swap out the front and rear brake fluids for new and?...basically no surprises...same color/tone old stuff came spewing out until the new clear shid came running through...no biggy...but...."THE HYDRAULIC CLUTCH FLUID"....was quite another story as...while the fluid in the resivoir window was the same color/tone tanish as that in my front and rear brake systems?..the FIRST SHID that came spewing into the waste chamber of the mighty vac WAS BLACK AS HELL!
wow.gif


It looked like someone had added a teaspoon of carbon black to every ounce of brake fluid...and a full mighty vac waste chambers worth of the black shid was collected before the tan shid from the resivoir came cycling through and THEN here came the new clear shid....and the only thing i can figure is this...that "Carbon Black" grahite looking shid must've been the sediments collecting in the bottom end of the hydraulic assist clutch piston/assy....point being?.....you could look into the window of your clutch resivoir and think "Ah...that's still not gold enough...i can let it ride"...yet all the sediment that has collected at the bottom-most location (your slave pistion) could be grinding away and destroying piston seals and you'd never know by the..."fluid color in the window".

I think the clutch gets a far harder workout than does either or both of the fron & rear brakes...so your clutch is pulling double...maybe "triple duty" that your brakes are.....so it would stand to reason that if your swap out your brake fluids every 10K miles?...that for a simular maint. schedule?...the clutch fluid should be changed out every 5K miles..."if"....ya wanna...."keep it clean"....and i know for a fact that some folks place high emphasis on swapping out brake fluids and sometimes "save the clutch fluid for last" (so to speak)....or?...don't bother changing it at all...with the mindset that..."the brakes can save/cost me my life...but the clutch fluid can hang in there"....and it can...if ya don't give a fug about yer clutch system.
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and now?...

BRAKE PADS:

I inherited O-Ren ( an '03 model Busa) a little over a year and a 1/2 ago w/ a scant 1,600 miles on her odo for $8K.....and two weeks after purchasing her?...i went to a busa bash...almost immediately having Ken Wheeler do a custom install goodridge Braided SS clutch and brakelines upgrade....and i figured that while he was at it?...go ahead and upgrade the front pads...and while i've always been a devoted EBC HH kinda guy?...Ken had some Ferrodo Sintergrip "ROADS" ST Pads as well and just for a change?....to be different?...i tried'em....and while they had far more bite than the stock pads?...and even after proper bed-in?...the ferrodo pads loaded up and scorched out leaving my front rotors glazed to he11 in less than 5K miles..so?...I dressed'em back out and tossed the low milage stockers i had back on for a while...meantime?...as the 8K mile mark rolled across O-Rens odo?...I began to hear a nasty grinding sound in her rear...(dam...that sounds lewd don't it?...and i wasn't even trying!
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)....okay...getcher mind outta da gutter...and as i realized it was a "metallic" grinding sound?...i thought...NAHHHH....NO WAY!...I couldn't of smoked "THROUGH" a set of rear pads in less than 8K miles...he11...every bike i've owned in the last two decades I'd change out rear pads at 20K miles and...THEY'D STILL HAVE 1/2 THE DAMN PAD MATERIAL/LIFE LEFT!....THEY COULDN'T BE WORE "THROUGH"!...IMMMMMPOSSIBLE!"


but they were...and worn "FAR" through..and in short order...as a matter of fact?...THEY WERE FREAKING WORN 1/2 way THROUGH the copper flashed METAL BACKING PLATE!...of WHAT USED TO BE...a set of rear brake pads..which not only scorched and glazed but...."SMEARED"...my rear rotor material.

I dressed the rear rotor out the best i could (which is pretty damn good as i'm a machinist fabricator for 30 years) and i had EBC HH rear brake pads installed...at 8,100 miles....the same time as i swapped out to dunlop qualifiers.

Then?...just before leaving for the bash?....i swapped the restored front oem brake pads (with their mediocre bite) out for a fresh set of EBC HH front pads and?...the moral to the story?...

The EBC HH Brake Pads not only provide a wealth of "SNAG"?....after about 2,000 on the rear pads (replaced on a tore up/dressed out rear rotor) and 500 miles on some not too bad but seem better days front rotors?...it seems that the EBC HH pads have not only taken a proper bedding buuuut...it also seems they have "PERFECTLY DRESSED BACK OUT ALL MY ROTORS" doing so!...and O-Rens stock rotors have "NEVER"...looked so good.
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Things i thought you'd all like to know and..

L8R, Bill.
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#2
Since I'm fast approaching the need for all of these items, your advice and experience are greatly appreciated.

Thank you!
 
#6
when i used a vac on my brakes i saw aur bubbles coming out of the bleeder, with every stroke , im guessing they were entering around the bleeder threads?
 

JINKSTER

I Love my Wife!
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#7
(gsteve @ Oct. 08 2006,08:57) when i used a vac on my brakes i saw aur bubbles coming out of the bleeder, with every stroke , im guessing they were entering around the bleeder threads?
The bubbles aren't caused by seeping air leaks....and they really aren't "bubbles" at all (in the practical sense)...as what you're seeing is NOT bubbles..but the affects and reactions resultant of "fluid dynamics" as the fluid enters a low pressure atmosphere..under vacuum....and the fluid pulls apart from itself as FLUID can neither compress NOR "expand"..and hence creates "The Illusion" of...."bubbles".

and no...i didn't stay at a holiday inn express last night.
laugh.gif


L8R, Bill.
cool.gif
 

JINKSTER

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#8
in laymens terms?...a fluid condition often descibed as "spurting"....induced by the fluid experiencing high pressure behind it or low pressure ahead of it..."spurting"...and not...."bubbles"....and with enough of a vacumm signal ahead of it ?...fluid can be made to "atomize" such as it does through the jetting and emulsion affects of CV carbs....or?...high pressure behind the fluid can cause it to spurt or atomize...such as it does via the pumping action of a spray bottle..not..."bubbles"...and with enough pressure/vacuum?..fluid can be driven past the point of atomization resulting in molecular separation...and i better stop there before things go atomic.
laugh.gif
 

Burger King

breakin' the law
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#9
I have a front and rear set of HH's to install so I order one of the vacs. Sounds like a great product to keep the fluids up to date with little or no mess not only on the Busa but on all the vehicles.
Thanks for the heads up Jinks!
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GMbusa

Even a caveman can do it.
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#10
EBC HH brake pads. One of the best mods i've ever done to my bike. I'd say they gave me a 40% improvement over stock stopping power. Instead of me having to grab a handful of the front brake, the EBC's made it a 2 finger deal.
FYI, do the stainless lines also while your at it. That gave me alot of "feel" whereas the stock rubber do not.
 

Burger King

breakin' the law
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#11
I already have SS lines on the front. One of the first mods a person should do on any bike.
I still can't figure out why all manufacturers don't add SS lines as standard fare on bikes, especially sport bikes. It wouldn't add $50 to the cost from the manufacturer. Probably less.
 

heavybusa

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#13
(JINKSTER @ Oct. 08 2006,15:25) in laymens terms?...a fluid condition often descibed as "spurting"....induced by the fluid experiencing high pressure behind it or low pressure ahead of it..."spurting"...and not...."bubbles"....and with enough of a vacumm signal ahead of it ?...fluid can be made to "atomize" such as it does through the jetting and emulsion affects of CV carbs....or?...high pressure behind the fluid can cause it to spurt or atomize...such as it does via the pumping action of a spray bottle..not..."bubbles"...and with enough pressure/vacuum?..fluid can be driven past the point of atomization resulting in molecular separation...and i better stop there before things go atomic.
laugh.gif
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nerd.gif
 

JINKSTER

I Love my Wife!
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#14
(heavybusa @ Oct. 08 2006,10:54)
(JINKSTER @ Oct. 08 2006,15:25) in laymens terms?...a fluid condition often descibed as "spurting"....induced by the fluid experiencing high pressure behind it or low pressure ahead of it..."spurting"...and not...."bubbles"....and with enough of a vacumm signal ahead of it ?...fluid can be made to "atomize" such as it does through the jetting and emulsion affects of CV carbs....or?...high pressure behind the fluid can cause it to spurt or atomize...such as it does via the pumping action of a spray bottle..not..."bubbles"...and with enough pressure/vacuum?..fluid can be driven past the point of atomization resulting in molecular separation...and i better stop there before things go atomic.
laugh.gif
jump9.gif


nerd.gif
and with that?...i think i'll just step outside and burn a big fat green one.
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#16
(JINKSTER @ Oct. 08 2006,12:04)
(gsteve @ Oct. 08 2006,08:57) when i used a vac on my brakes i saw aur bubbles coming out of the bleeder, with every stroke , im guessing they were entering around the bleeder threads?
The bubbles aren't caused by seeping air leaks....and they really aren't "bubbles" at all (in the practical sense)...as what you're seeing is NOT bubbles..but the affects and reactions resultant of "fluid dynamics" as the fluid enters a low pressure atmosphere..under vacuum....and the fluid pulls apart from itself as FLUID can neither compress NOR "expand"..and hence creates "The Illusion" of...."bubbles".

and no...i didn't stay at a holiday inn express last night.
laugh.gif


L8R, Bill.
cool.gif


Holy Krap... I feel much smerter now! Thanks dude... hey remem thos fieldsheer panys i had Fsale? They are still for sale. sj
Thansk Dude.... damn I feel smert now ! Her remem those field sheer pants i had for sale , they still are if youre still interested. sj
 
#17
Jinks,
I really hate to hear that.

Ken put ferrodo pads on my front when he did the SS lines. He said that they don't seem to eat rotors as quickly as the EBC pads.

I hope I don't have the same results. Hmmm.

CHris
 

MC MUSTANG

Peace Keeper or Ban Hammer-it's up to you; IDMBT#9
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#18
Guys,
I went and bought me one o' them mityvacs that Jinks is talking about and it definately helps. Also, I can attest to the nastiness of the fluid that I pulled out through the clutch bleeder! Problem is that I went through two bottles of fluid and now I need more! I'll post some pics tomorrow since I know how you hound dogs like them!
 

StreetnTrack

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#19
(Willie G @ Oct. 08 2006,12:26) Since I'm fast approaching the need for all of these items, your advice and experience are greatly appreciated.

Thank you!
let us know if you need lines and pads. we sale the 6820 for $35 and the deluxe mity vac for $70
 

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