A simple lesson in business and economics:

[m_ridgeway]

i agree with everything you said cap, but if you choose a profession to get in, like i did, and then find out you can make more for a better company by working union is that wrong?

In a non union shop if they cut pay or don't keep up with the "Fair Market" then employees will leave and go somewhere else.

this is true, how is this situation any different? in 2011 they posted a 304million dollar loss, that means they would have to eliminate 304 million dollars of liability? its easy for companies like this to blame the union because people either really hate them or really like them, seems to be more on the hate side lately. i cant believe for a minute that just to break even they would need to make 304 million dollars in payroll cuts, this doesnt even account to make a profit to support the company.

 

[captain]

i agree with everything you said cap, but if you choose a profession to get in, like i did, and then find out you can make more for a better company by working union is that wrong?



this is true, how is this situation any different? in 2011 they posted a 304million dollar loss, that means they would have to eliminate 304 million dollars of liability? its easy for companies like this to blame the union because people either really hate them or really like them, seems to be more on the hate side lately. i cant believe for a minute that just to break even they would need to make 304 million dollars in payroll cuts, this doesnt even account to make a profit to support the company.

I read an article a few minutes ago on CNN.com... A mother of 5 that works at a Wal Mart in California is picketing and willing to lose her job.... REALLY? A mother of 5 has the time to go picket and is willing to lose her job over having to work earlier hours on Thanksgiving... Sounds like a messed up plan to me.... That is the attitide, how many people are out there willing to take, Looking for overtime? If you took the job, and need the money but want the hours they choose... This isn't burger King, you don't get it your way... When will the time come that 7 Eleven has a union and it's not fair that someone has to cover the late shift?

Personally...... I have always worked as hard as I can when I can for the money... If I had 5 kids nothing would make me happier than getting to work and having a job to feed them.

 

[captain]

i agree with everything you said cap, but if you choose a profession to get in, like i did, and then find out you can make more for a better company by working union is that wrong?



this is true, how is this situation any different? in 2011 they posted a 304million dollar loss, that means they would have to eliminate 304 million dollars of liability? its easy for companies like this to blame the union because people either really hate them or really like them, seems to be more on the hate side lately. i cant believe for a minute that just to break even they would need to make 304 million dollars in payroll cuts, this doesnt even account to make a profit to support the company.

Hey if you can find a company that can keep the ship floating while going the union route then I guess more power to ya but don't run with your hair on fire when they send the jobs to China and you have no job.

 

[m_ridgeway]

i agree with what your saying too. the same people that would cry, whine, do everything to do the least amount as possible are the same people union or not. when i worked non union you had to carry the guys that wanted to do the least amount possible, now in my particular union i have a little more say. you can get their book pulled, busted down in title instead of just taking it because the company likes people that will barely meet quota to avoid raises and ot.

they cant move my job to china, i do field work. hands on construction type stuff. my company per capita posts the most profits, we bid our work high because our quality allows us to. our union actually helped remove alot of foreign labor in the u.s. in our field. its basically non existent. when push came to shove and the "union members" were talking about shutting work done when our contract was in negotiation, i sided with the company and told them they(company) arent shutting us down, im not shutting them down. we pay our union to represent our best interest. creating a hardship for my employer isnt my best interest. and at the end of the day if this company ever went non union i would stay, i know they will take care of me. if i ever changed careers i wouldnt be job seeking by union or non union, in all honesty it probably would be non union work i would end up in.

 

[m_ridgeway]

and really to have loyalty outside of who pays you is where alot of members lose sight. yes the union is there to represent you, the minute the company or union tries to ram their hand up the employees rear and work them like a puppet, the employee should realize this isnt right. just like anything in life if you draw a line in the sand and will not see the other side how can any amount of compromise be had? people working to together supporting each others best interest from the top to the bottom is what needs to happen to fix this economy. corporate greed and union greed is no different that the politicians playing us like a fiddle against each other. until we can see through this nonsense and start backing each other were doomed to fail. thats one mentality the union has i agree with. united we stand divided we fall.

 

[captain]

and really to have loyalty outside of who pays you is where alot of members lose sight. yes the union is there to represent you, the minute the company or union tries to ram their hand up the employees rear and work them like a puppet, the employee should realize this isnt right. just like anything in life if you draw a line in the sand and will not see the other side how can any amount of compromise be had? people working to together supporting each others best interest from the top to the bottom is what needs to happen to fix this economy. corporate greed and union greed is no different that the politicians playing us like a fiddle against each other. until we can see through this nonsense and start backing each other were doomed to fail. thats one mentality the union has i agree with. united we stand divided we fall.

Let me make this fact known too... I have been in a Union not by choice! I do think that there could be a balance but there isn't and won't be anytime soon. As long as the Unions continue to drive for ridiculous things and the executive elite do the same we will never find a balancing act... Sounds just like out politicians huh!

 

[skydivr]

Labor is mostly a commodity, and just like other commodities, it rises and falls with supply, demand, and price - standard economic model. A company has to pay a certain amount to get the quantity and quality of labor it needs to perform it's function. When supply is low (or specialized), price rises and demand is met at a certain equilibrium. When demand is low, price falls and people go elsewhere until again, equilibrium is achieved. When it get's messed up is when someone starts messing with the model to give one part or another more power - usually the Union and the Government.

 

[Bruce Bell]

I've been a union member going on 27 years, the union I'm in I could do without. I won't mention the union but it does everything it can do to harm the company. We've got shop stewards walking around saying slow down and you can get O/T. I've worked with co-worker that got mad at me, telling that I'm killing the job. When we were on strike years ago I worked for Local 7 Ironworkers out of Boston, now that's a real union. The shop steward on those jobs walked around and said if you don't pick up the pace your all done. Unions are suppose to supply a company with workers to do a job for the customer (company). The problem with unions today is they want to run the company, that's not their job. That's the company's job. The union's job is to supply the tools (workers) to make the company prosper.

 

[captain]

I've been a union member going on 27 years, the union I'm in I could do without. I won't mention the union but it does everything it can do to harm the company. We've got shop stewards walking around saying slow down and you can get O/T. I've worked with co-worker that got mad at me, telling that I'm killing the job. When we were on strike years ago I worked for Local 7 Ironworkers out of Boston, now that's a real union. The shop steward on those jobs walked around and said if you don't pick up the pace your all done. Unions are suppose to supply a company with workers to do a job for the customer (company). The problem with unions today is they want to run the company, that's not their job. That's the company's job. The union's job is to supply the tools (workers) to make the company prosper.

That is exactly what I'm talking about.... The union I was forced to be part of (after I had been working there for years a couple of lazy turds started an effort for it) and they had the same mentality, they were owed something... They tried to strong arm the employees to do what they wanted and not what we were there to do...

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

I just brokered a deal for 100,000 Twinkies.
They are being made in DingDong China and will only cost 5 cents.

 

[Bruce Bell]

They (Union) have tried to break me but they failed over and over again. My honor is to the people that sign my check. Not the clowns that try to steal it from me(dues).

 

[chrisjp]

my union/ and the company wants you to work efficiently and correctly and even the company's slogan is "there is no job so important we cant take our time to do it safely and correctly" so does our union stewards say slow down? hell yes they do. because if your quality is bad, all is bad. if saftey is ignored, all is bad. most are piecework so we make money base on HOW MUCH WE DO. so...yes the union wants you to work hard....but do it with quality and safety first.

 

[zukracer]

I'm not a fan of unions, safe to say I'd probably never join one. I guess there is a time and place for them but I'm more of a fan of busting your chops, moving on if you dont like where you are and continuing to enhance the "perks of working" (salary, benefits, etc).

On a flight from California to New York a few months ago I had a guy sitting beside me that was "living it up" in first class demanding drinks, food, etc. I thought, well whatever but he seemed a tad rude. Most folks that sit up front expect service but do not "demand" it. They certainly understand that while people are still boarding the flight attendants (who btw are union folks) have other things to do than sling drinks. As we get into flight the guy starts chatting me up, asking me tons of work questions. Turns out he's some union executive heading to a conference in NYC. As we are chatting, I realized quickly that a "work" conversation wasn't going to be productive so I suggested we talk about anything else but work stuff. He kept on and on, finally I asked "so you represent your union members, you are suppose to be a steward of their interests and fiscally minded to ensure your members are well cared for?" He says "yes, I and my coworker over there across the aisle do that every day". My response, which btw ended our conversation for the balance of the 6hr flight..."so you two are sitting in first class, you are demanding service and you have already told me you are staying at the Ritz Carlton in NYC and have a limo scheduled to take you from JFK to the hotel. How exactly does that capitol expense seem fiscally minded? Seems like you are living it up at the expense of your members."

I know that's supposed to be the exception but can you ever really be sure?

 

[Fastfrog007]

I'm not a fan of unions, safe to say I'd probably never join one. I guess there is a time and place for them but I'm more of a fan of busting your chops, moving on if you dont like where you are and continuing to enhance the "perks of working" (salary, benefits, etc).

On a flight from California to New York a few months ago I had a guy sitting beside me that was "living it up" in first class demanding drinks, food, etc. I thought, well whatever but he seemed a tad rude. Most folks that sit up front expect service but do not "demand" it. They certainly understand that while people are still boarding the flight attendants (who btw are union folks) have other things to do than sling drinks. As we get into flight the guy starts chatting me up, asking me tons of work questions. Turns out he's some union executive heading to a conference in NYC. As we are chatting, I realized quickly that a "work" conversation wasn't going to be productive so I suggested we talk about anything else but work stuff. He kept on and on, finally I asked "so you represent your union members, you are suppose to be a steward of their interests and fiscally minded to ensure your members are well cared for?" He says "yes, I and my coworker over there across the aisle do that every day". My response, which btw ended our conversation for the balance of the 6hr flight..."so you two are sitting in first class, you are demanding service and you have already told me you are staying at the Ritz Carlton in NYC and have a limo scheduled to take you from JFK to the hotel. How exactly does that capitol expense seem fiscally minded? Seems like you are living it up at the expense of your members."

I know that's supposed to be the exception but can you ever really be sure?

Atta boy Brian, union or not, putting a jerk in his place is always a good thing.

 

[kitchener rider]

I normally don't agree with much this captain guy says, but this time im on board. these people chose the jobs new the risks and dependeded on a union. The sad part is the people who would have done what it wanted to keep their jobs lost them because of the majority. I learned a while ago to put yourself in a position where your not held hostage by your employer. Hopefully these people will do what it takes to get to that point whether its a trade or some sort of education upgrade to a better career, or even better self employed. But as Ted Knight said "the world needs ditch diggers too"

In a non union shop if they cut pay or don't keep up with the "Fair Market" then employees will leave and go somewhere else. If they do pay more then skilled people will stay and work hard.

We have a crazy world these days where people have all the facts, make choices and then want to change the rules in the middle of the game because it doesn't seem fair. I was in emergency services for many years, a cop for 6 1/2 and fire for 10 and I knew what my pay was going to be. I knew what it was going to cost, I loved my job (maybe too much) but I also knew what it was going to take to save to send my son to college, get my wife the things I wanted her to have and to have the standard of living I wanted. I chose to leave that job I loved to take on a job where I knew the starting salary would meet those needs and where the potential was at to make more.... Why do people not get it, if you want more money you may have to find a different profession.....

Off Rant


Cap

 

[kitchener rider]

I know Chris, Im part of the problem not the solution, I am an office donkey.

 

[fallenarch]

All I can say is that I was willing to increase my intake of snack cakes and twinkies to help save an American Icon......