A question for you guys

[Devious]

Meaning, have you ever signed a contract off as complete in order to release payment to a Contractor...
I hate being put in a situation like that...
but it's the end of the Fiscal year and things need to happen on paper ASAP...
Is anyone guilty of that...
Not saying that I am, yet...

 

[Gunnybusa]

Sorry Col but Im the stick in the mud when it comes to things like that, I dont sign it off until the work is done.

 

[Devious]

(Gunnybusa @ Sep. 21 2006,14:27) Sorry Col but Im the stick in the mud when it comes to things like that, I dont sign it off until the work is done.

I do agree, but...
There are a lot of people who depend on a paycheck from the Contractors and Subcontractors...
And if the project is not completed/accepted and signed off by the end of the Fiscal year...
It's a bitch to refund the incomplete project next Fiscal year...
Catch 22...
In the worst way...
I really hate to be in this predicament...

 

[Gunnybusa]

(Devious @ Sep. 21 2006,12:31)

(Gunnybusa @ Sep. 21 2006,14:27) Sorry Col but Im the stick in the mud when it comes to things like that, I dont sign it off until the work is done.

I do agree, but...
There are a lot of people who depend on a paycheck from the Contractors and Subcontractors...
And if the project is not completed/accepted and signed off by the end of the Fiscal year...
It's a bitch to refund the incomplete project next Fiscal year...
Catch 22...
In the worst way...
I really hate to be in this predicament...

Thats a pickel alright and one that im not qualifed to answer. How did it get this way?

 

[busa crazy]

i know a bunch of super's that do sign off early to help their contractors out.i guess alot of it depands on how long you have dealt with the contractor.the only bad thing about this situation is if you sign and it's not complete and they dont come back to complete the work ,it comes back on you or your company.
watch your back first!!!

 

[Devious]

(Gunnybusa @ Sep. 21 2006,14:34)

(Devious @ Sep. 21 2006,12:31)

(Gunnybusa @ Sep. 21 2006,14:27) Sorry Col but Im the stick in the mud when it comes to things like that, I dont sign it off until the work is done.

I do agree, but...
There are a lot of people who depend on a paycheck from the Contractors and Subcontractors...
And if the project is not completed/accepted and signed off by the end of the Fiscal year...
It's a bitch to refund the incomplete project next Fiscal year...
Catch 22...
In the worst way...
I really hate to be in this predicament...

Thats a pickel alright and one that im not qualifed to answer. How did it get this way?

Beancounters and all their BS methods...
This is one of those "Use it or lose it situations"...

 

[paineless4u]

I wouldn't do it. EOY Sucks, especially next week but signing off on a incomplete job is asking for trouble.

 

[Wag]

It's not a bean counter problem, it sounds more like a political problem.

Still, I'd never sign off a contract until it's completed. Aren't there provisisions for including the progress payments in the budget allocations for this year?

Lou

 

[Devious]

(Wag @ Sep. 21 2006,14:56) It's not a bean counter problem, it sounds more like a political problem.  

Still, I'd never sign off a contract until it's completed.  Aren't there provisisions for including the progress payments in the budget allocations for this year?

Lou

Nope...

 

[jessup]

I wouldn't do it either... I work with a lot of contractors (probably not the way you do) and if they don't finish the work they don't get paid until it is done. Not putting myself on the hook just so someone can get paid...

 

[Wag]

(Devious @ Sep. 21 2006,13:57)

(Wag @ Sep. 21 2006,14:56) It's not a bean counter problem, it sounds more like a political problem.  

Still, I'd never sign off a contract until it's completed.  Aren't there provisisions for including the progress payments in the budget allocations for this year?

Lou

Nope...

Well, that blows. Jessup's comments make me wonder if the contractor missed a deadline. If so, then he's partly if not completely to blame for this problem.

You're both gonna get hosed unless you put your neck on the chopping block and sign off on it.

What if you make him complete the job and then backdate the signature? Then you aren't sticking your neck out that far. Depends on how much longer it takes him to finish. You could still get hosed, I guess.

I feel for ya, don't get me wrong, but you could be putting your schlong on the chopping block here.

--Wag--

 

[thrasherfox]

If you put your neck out to help others out and nothing goes wrong, everything thinks "well that was nice"

If something goes wrong they think "man glad that wasnt me" and outwarldy they say "HE DID WHAT!!!"

If the contractor work isnt completed, they dont get paid. it is on them to complete it.

If you want to sign off, get the approval of YOUR supervisor and make sure the approval is in either an email or memo so you have back up.

Cover your a$$ because if you dont, the people you put your neck out for normally will not back you up when the $hit hits the fan.

 

[Revlis]

Well, given your position you should have choices and the final word correct?

So of course you take into account the history of the contractor first. Are they a longstanding and entrnched contractor or short term? Are they an individual, Small disadvantaged, Women owned, or are they a power house Prime?

The big guns don't need you to sign off they can cover salary until project is complete. It's the little guys that need to get paid, and if there is a lack of written policy then it;s all up to you to sign off based on your best judgement. If there is any doubt then Hell no, I wouldn't sign anything.

I've been on both sides, Booz-Allen just paid us outta overhead, Anteon had to do alot of footwork. Everyone working in the contractor game knows that this can happen though. I'd give a shout over to the contracting office unless you are the contracting office and see if they have an opinion legal or otherwise.

 

[Devious]

Lemme make it a little more clear. This is year end money. And the Delivery orders are last minute modifications. The money must be awarded, and the work must be completed by Oct 1. Since they are just now being awarded, there is no way the Contractor can begin and complete the Task orders...
However, the money must be spent now, or it will be lost...
Again, it's a Catch 22...
I know the Contractor well...
Major Worldwide players for the Gov...
So confidence is high as far as the work being completed and passing inspection...
Just not by Oct 1...
So it's a common practice to do this...
But it still gives me the willies...



David


By the way, your right, Revlis, I am the Contracting Officer over all Public Works Cost accounting Categories...
That's why my nuts are in the vice right now...
Some say the money is supposed to compensate for this stress, worry and fear...
But trust me, it aint enough...
I still sit up at night going over it in my disturbed, feeble little mind...

 

[Wag]

(Devious @ Sep. 21 2006,22:54) Lemme make it a little more clear. This is year end money. And the Delivery orders are last minute modifications. The money must be awarded, and the work must be completed by Oct 1. Since they are just now being awarded, there is no way the Contractor can begin and complete the Task orders...
However, the money must be spent now, or it will be lost...
Again, it's a Catch 22...
I know the Contractor well...
Major Worldwide players for the Gov...
So confidence is high as far as the work being completed and passing inspection...
Just not by Oct 1...
So it's a common practice to do this...
But it still gives me the willies...



David


By the way, your right, Revlis, I am the Contracting Officer over all Public Works Cost accounting Categories...
That's why my nuts are in the vice right now...
Some say the money is supposed to compensate for this stress, worry and fear...
But trust me, it aint enough...
I still sit up at night going over it in my disturbed, feeble little mind...

You have a conscience which is what's keeping you awake at night.

And no, the money is never worth it.

If you know the company and their participants, you'll probalby be okay. This kind of thing was done by your overseers for just this reason: To use the money and preserve next year's budget.

It COULD bite you in the a$$ but if you've been at the company for a lot of years, it just isn't likely is all.

Whatever you do, make your decision NOW and move along without worrying about it! You'll be fine, either way.

--Wag--

 

[Shanling]

(Devious @ Sep. 22 2006,00:54) Lemme make it a little more clear. This is year end money. And the Delivery orders are last minute modifications. The money must be awarded, and the work must be completed by Oct 1. Since they are just now being awarded, there is no way the Contractor can begin and complete the Task orders...
However, the money must be spent now, or it will be lost...
Again, it's a Catch 22...
I know the Contractor well...
Major Worldwide players for the Gov...
So confidence is high as far as the work being completed and passing inspection...
Just not by Oct 1...
So it's a common practice to do this...
But it still gives me the willies...



David


By the way, your right, Revlis, I am the Contracting Officer over all Public Works Cost accounting Categories...
That's why my nuts are in the vice right now...
Some say the money is supposed to compensate for this stress, worry and fear...
But trust me, it aint enough...
I still sit up at night going over it in my disturbed, feeble little mind...

We need more like you in the PS sector!

 

[paineless4u]

(Devious @ Sep. 21 2006,21:54) Lemme make it a little more clear. This is year end money. And the Delivery orders are last minute modifications. The money must be awarded, and the work must be completed by Oct 1. Since they are just now being awarded, there is no way the Contractor can begin and complete the Task orders...
However, the money must be spent now, or it will be lost...
Again, it's a Catch 22...
I know the Contractor well...
Major Worldwide players for the Gov...
So confidence is high as far as the work being completed and passing inspection...
Just not by Oct 1...
So it's a common practice to do this...
But it still gives me the willies...



David


By the way, your right, Revlis, I am the Contracting Officer over all Public Works Cost accounting Categories...
That's why my nuts are in the vice right now...
Some say the money is supposed to compensate for this stress, worry and fear...
But trust me, it aint enough...
I still sit up at night going over it in my disturbed, feeble little mind...

I always thought as long as the work is started before Oct 1st your good. I have a lot of contracts that are scheduled to "start" before Oct 1st and as long as they are on site and turn a screw they are legal, money is obligated. They will not get paid until the job is finished but the money is obligated and legally fenced with FY06 money and paid as soon as they provide an invoice and someone certifies the work is complete.

 

[Wag]

(paineless4u @ Sep. 22 2006,07:09) I always thought as long as the work is started before Oct 1st your good. I have a lot of contracts that are scheduled to "start" before Oct 1st and as long as they are on site and turn a screw they are legal, money is obligated. They will not get paid until the job is finished but the money is obligated and legally fenced with FY06 money and paid as soon as they provide an invoice and someone certifies the work is complete.

Good point. The accountants should know how to make an accrual for anticipated costs, etc.

--Wag--

 

[Devious]

Okay, now here's the real kicker...
One of the Task orders is for almost $250K worth of Brick pavers to be installed at different areas around the Base...
To fill in parking lot islands, and some are to be installed around the Landscaping in general...
Wanna know what bothers me about this...
It's not really signing the T.O. before work is complete...
It's that this Base is on the BRAC list and we are closing the gates on or before Oct 1, 2010...
And we are still spending tons of $ on cosmetic projects...
Nowing that this Base could be abandoned, mothballed or even leveled...
Can someone say...

Waste, fraud, and abuse...

Now do you guys see why I losing weight and sleep...


David

 

[Wag]

(Devious @ Sep. 22 2006,15:03) Okay, now here's the real kicker...
One of the Task orders is for almost $250K worth of Brick pavers to be installed at different areas around the Base...
To fill in parking lot islands, and some are to be installed around the Landscaping in general...
Wanna know what bothers me about this...
It's not really signing the T.O. before work is complete...
It's that this Base is on the BRAC list and we are closing the gates on or before Oct 1, 2010...
And we are still spending tons of $ on cosmetic projects...
Nowing that this Base could be abandoned, mothballed or even leveled...
Can someone say...

Waste, fraud, and abuse...

Now do you guys see why I losing weight and sleep...


David

Well, now, that's a different problem altogether.

If you have a moral problem doing your job, you should probably look for another job if possible.

Just sayin.'

Still, I understand your dilemmas. You have three now. Catch-33, maybe?!!

--Wag--