250th Mass Shooting in 215 Days




c10

Registered
There will always be bad people in the world . The blame is a weapon or firearm . Where the blame should be placed is the systems of society . Many humans are mentally ill in so many forms that its shocking . A pill for this is the answer or so it seems to be .
Movies glorify violence , and death . Feed your dog gun powder , and beat them you end up with one dangerous animal .
We are simply doing the same by feeding our brains this . The games of today are not space invaders , but rather games where our youth can get a whore , steal a car , and rob people .
Where did decent parenting go ? Schools removed corporal punishment here shortly after I graduated in 1992 . I see children attack teachers or throw violent episodes . What happens when they become a young adult ? They did not change inside at all . So now we get mass shootings .
Take the guns away they say. However it will still occur with a truck , bombing , knife attacks , and countless other ways .
Hammers kill a lot of people , but no ban on them in home depot .
Its going to get much worse before it gets better this is for sure . Maybe not in some our lifetimes left , but our kids will see some tough times .
 

Mr Brown

Registered
There will always be bad people in the world . The blame is a weapon or firearm . Where the blame should be placed is the systems of society . Many humans are mentally ill in so many forms that its shocking . A pill for this is the answer or so it seems to be .
Movies glorify violence , and death . Feed your dog gun powder , and beat them you end up with one dangerous animal .
We are simply doing the same by feeding our brains this . The games of today are not space invaders , but rather games where our youth can get a whore , steal a car , and rob people .
Where did decent parenting go ? Schools removed corporal punishment here shortly after I graduated in 1992 . I see children attack teachers or throw violent episodes . What happens when they become a young adult ? They did not change inside at all . So now we get mass shootings .
Take the guns away they say. However it will still occur with a truck , bombing , knife attacks , and countless other ways .
Hammers kill a lot of people , but no ban on them in home depot .
Its going to get much worse before it gets better this is for sure . Maybe not in some our lifetimes left , but our kids will see some tough times .
A lot of good in your post, but the analogy between a hammer and a gun is a bad one. A hammer can be repurposed to kill or harm people (most anything can) but that is not what it was designed to do. Guns, even the sporting ones, are designed to inflict damage on the chosen target. That is their designed purpose, and they do it with varying levels of effectiveness. I'm not in favor of banning guns, even if the government tried it's impossible to achieve at this point, and it doesn't solve the problem. Where we fail is that we don't teach gun safety. In a society where firearms are readily available most people have little to no training. They get their ideas of how to use a firearm from the games you talk about, or some bullsh!t they watched on TV. Hell, I see cops holding their weapons sideways on the live cop shows.....
Combine that with the distorted sense of conflict resolution we see in society (think social media and the lack of accountability for one's words and actions it allows) have led us to the point where someone thinks that showing up armed at a DC pizza parlor to look for a pedophile ring is a good idea, or that shooting someone for stepping on your shoes is an acceptable use of force.
I'm afraid you're right about it getting worse before it gets better, but I hope things will turn around at some point.
 

Sandow

Registered
There will always be bad people in the world . The blame is a weapon or firearm . Where the blame should be placed is the systems of society . Many humans are mentally ill in so many forms that its shocking . A pill for this is the answer or so it seems to be .
Movies glorify violence , and death . Feed your dog gun powder , and beat them you end up with one dangerous animal .
We are simply doing the same by feeding our brains this . The games of today are not space invaders , but rather games where our youth can get a whore , steal a car , and rob people .
Where did decent parenting go ? Schools removed corporal punishment here shortly after I graduated in 1992 . I see children attack teachers or throw violent episodes . What happens when they become a young adult ? They did not change inside at all . So now we get mass shootings .
Take the guns away they say. However it will still occur with a truck , bombing , knife attacks , and countless other ways .
Hammers kill a lot of people , but no ban on them in home depot .
Its going to get much worse before it gets better this is for sure . Maybe not in some our lifetimes left , but our kids will see some tough times .
I also agree mostly with you!
But sorry to say- and no iam not against guns- a guy with a hammer walking into walmart or a school could easily be stopped.
A guy with a semi automatic or even auto rifle - not so much!
 

Sandow

Registered
I know. I was referring to it as- If those kind of people would not have access to rifles or even guns, they could be stopped way easier. I did not want to start the usual "gun ban" discussion!
 

Mr Brown

Registered
Daniel , and Jeremy have you two seen some of the Japanese mass knife assaults in the subway systems ?
Close quarters , and hard to tell what is happening till its to late .
I have seen them in London, and they're every bit as unacceptable as what we have seen here. However, the number of homicides using a knife as a weapon pales in comparison to those using firearms. I understand your point about both hammers and knives, and I agree with you. The fact remains that the situation in this country regarding firearm deaths is not good, and we are prevented by special interests, misinformation and greedy politicians from having a frank and honest discussion about how best to save lives.
 

greg3852

Registered
If only they banned murder.....Gun bans do not affect criminals who by definition do not follow laws.

As someone who deal with this on a daily basis, the problems are several.

First the mental health system is completely broken. Locally at my downtown bus station at any point during the week I can find 5-10 people who should be (and would have been in the past) institutionalized. These people have no business walking the street. They are unable to care for themselves and are dangerous. There are no more institutions. None.

Second is the lack of fathers, and or the fear of disciplining children, and bad people. Unwed mothers are raising boys and having 10 kids. There is no responsible father figure to guide these kids as the fathers are in and out of the prison system. Generations of bad people raising bad kids.

Third, as much as I do not believe, lack of religion is hurting future generations. Religion has kept people in fear of behaving badly for hundreds of years. Now that less and less people are following organized religion, there is no fear of bad behavior.
 

Jbaby1969

Registered
If only they banned murder.....Gun bans do not affect criminals who by definition do not follow laws.

As someone who deal with this on a daily basis, the problems are several.

First the mental health system is completely broken. Locally at my downtown bus station at any point during the week I can find 5-10 people who should be (and would have been in the past) institutionalized. These people have no business walking the street. They are unable to care for themselves and are dangerous. There are no more institutions. None.

Second is the lack of fathers, and or the fear of disciplining children, and bad people. Unwed mothers are raising boys and having 10 kids. There is no responsible father figure to guide these kids as the fathers are in and out of the prison system. Generations of bad people raising bad kids.

Third, as much as I do not believe, lack of religion is hurting future generations. Religion has kept people in fear of behaving badly for hundreds of years. Now that less and less people are following organized religion, there is no fear of bad behavior.
Very true.
 

Cantab

Registered
Hmm religion and beliefs....do ya see what else goes on outside of the US greg3852 ? People following 'theirs is the right' beliefs have been at each other for hundreds of years and more with no sign of slowing down , i think your thoughts on religion might've worked in one time where you guys live but thats a bit long gone...

With you tho on the Mental health and support issues.
Pretty much as well as your 2nd point.
 

Cantab

Registered
In NZ we have started a buy back on some guns and new laws including bans on others, theres also an amnesty to hand anything in no questions asked for a limited time. NZ should have followed the Aussies a few years back when they did theres.

One thing being so far away from the rest of the world is its harder to get guns in the first place and its more of a priviledge than a right to own. A lack of population is in our favour to (buying back)
Downside is tyres,parts and anything else is horribly expensive.

 

greg3852

Registered
Hmm religion and beliefs....do ya see what else goes on outside of the US greg3852 ? People following 'theirs is the right' beliefs have been at each other for hundreds of years and more with no sign of slowing down , i think your thoughts on religion might've worked in one time where you guys live but thats a bit long gone...

With you tho on the Mental health and support issues.
Pretty much as well as your 2nd point.
I dont' care about religion either way. I'm simply saying it was a good tool to keep people behaving. The religion one believes in is irrelevent. The fact that most religions promote positive behavior is the point. The fact that all have killed in their religion's name is irrelevant.

At least here in the states, I would say that until the early 90's late 80's religion was a part of most peoples lives. Due to this, large amounts of the population strove to at least behave. Now that religion is no longer as popular here in the states, I feel that people have lost a lot of courtesy and politeness that they used to have due to religion regardless of the belief.

Personally I do not believe in any form of religion and I would NEVER voluntarily hand in my firearms. One cannot rely on police to save them in any situation. ANY situation. My best chance to save myself and my family from being victims is being armed with the best weapon I can be. Currently that is a rifle that I have trained with for many many years.
 

jellyrug

Donating Member
Registered
I am not sure why Americans are so sensitive about guns and laws?

I purchased a semi-auto on Sunday evening at Walmart and it took 15 minutes to get system approval and get escorted out the door with my new toy. That is crazy.

Where I grew up (left 20 years ago and the place is a mess today) I had the same freedom as here, just as many guns, plus fully automatic assault rifles, could put on a silencer the next day if I wanted and could carry anywhere. I had a fully set up reloading facility with a few gallons of gun powder in my garage. I use to big game hunt every year and go target shooting on a piece of deserted land giving the owner a bottle of Scotch once a year.

But the big difference was, there were effective gun laws. It was almost impossible for a loony to get his hands on a firearm.

The laws were pretty simple, no rocket science.

1.) For every firearm acquired, a permit was needed, pretty much the same as a carry permit here, but repeated for each individual firearm. It would be registered in the owners name with a permit. Means competence, background check and a loony analysis, plus an interview at the local Sherif’s office.

2.) Each firearm had a bullet fingerprint through the barrel, stored in a central database, so it could be traced from a bullet.

2.) If you had the firearm with you anywhere, you had to carry the specific permit for that with you as well, otherwise felony.

3.) If the firearm was lost, stolen or left your ownership, it had to be reported immediately and there would be an investigation. If they could prove negligence on the owner’s part, felony. A private sale goes through the sherif’s office. It simply means if a firearm is found anywhere, in 99.9% of the cases from the serial number, they could trace it back to the responsible owner in immediately. And if it was stolen, the serial number would refer to a reported theft case. We had burglaries like you can’t believe, but if you know a stolen firearm could get you a felony, you made sure it is stored in a safe or somewhere out of reach. Break the law and you will lose all your guns unlikely own one again and could end up in jail.

In short, it is hard to understand why it is so difficult to get this right over here.
 

Lodi

Registered
Guns aren’t the problem. Society has become too permissive of lawbreakers. We have many laws that aren’t adequately enforcement, punishment are too light, prisoners are coddled while in custody and they are often released early. The death penalty should be used robustly in all 50 states to rid society of useless vermin. Mental health care is also inadequate and some people may be helped with treatment. Some need care but refuse it, so involuntary treatment should be required at times too. Unfortunately, some can’t be helped, but society must still be protected from them. Hopefully more about the brain will be understood in the future to provide more and better treatments for the mentally ill.
 

Jbaby1969

Registered
I am not sure why Americans are so sensitive about guns and laws?

I purchased a semi-auto on Sunday evening at Walmart and it took 15 minutes to get system approval and get escorted out the door with my new toy. That is crazy.

Where I grew up (left 20 years ago and the place is a mess today) I had the same freedom as here, just as many guns, plus fully automatic assault rifles, could put on a silencer the next day if I wanted and could carry anywhere. I had a fully set up reloading facility with a few gallons of gun powder in my garage. I use to big game hunt every year and go target shooting on a piece of deserted land giving the owner a bottle of Scotch once a year.

But the big difference was, there were effective gun laws. It was almost impossible for a loony to get his hands on a firearm.

The laws were pretty simple, no rocket science.

1.) For every firearm acquired, a permit was needed, pretty much the same as a carry permit here, but repeated for each individual firearm. It would be registered in the owners name with a permit. Means competence, background check and a loony analysis, plus an interview at the local Sherif’s office.

2.) Each firearm had a bullet fingerprint through the barrel, stored in a central database, so it could be traced from a bullet.

2.) If you had the firearm with you anywhere, you had to carry the specific permit for that with you as well, otherwise felony.

3.) If the firearm was lost, stolen or left your ownership, it had to be reported immediately and there would be an investigation. If they could prove negligence on the owner’s part, felony. A private sale goes through the sherif’s office. It simply means if a firearm is found anywhere, in 99.9% of the cases from the serial number, they could trace it back to the responsible owner in immediately. And if it was stolen, the serial number would refer to a reported theft case. We had burglaries like you can’t believe, but if you know a stolen firearm could get you a felony, you made sure it is stored in a safe or somewhere out of reach. Break the law and you will lose all your guns unlikely own one again and could end up in jail.

In short, it is hard to understand why it is so difficult to get this right over here.
As a constitutional libertarian, I’m not sensitive about guns. I’m sensitive about rights and liberty. The constitution is clear about these things. “Shall not be infringed” doesn’t mean that if enough shootings happen we can give up the right to have a gun.

Mass shootings are a terrible thing. There’s no doubt about that but a tyrannical government is much worst. One only has to look to Venezuela right now, or Germany in the past to see what happens when law abiding citizens are disarmed for the “greater good” of the many.
 

Mr Brown

Registered
Guns aren’t the problem. Society has become too permissive of lawbreakers. We have many laws that aren’t adequately enforcement, punishment are too light, prisoners are coddled while in custody and they are often released early. The death penalty should be used robustly in all 50 states to rid society of useless vermin. Mental health care is also inadequate and some people may be helped with treatment. Some need care but refuse it, so involuntary treatment should be required at times too. Unfortunately, some can’t be helped, but society must still be protected from them. Hopefully more about the brain will be understood in the future to provide more and better treatments for the mentally ill.
Guns aren't THE problem, but ease of access to them is A problem. One of the consequences of the war on drugs is that prisons are full of people who are not a danger to society in a violent sense, so there is less room for truly dangerous individuals. One of the problems with forced institutionalization is who gets to decide what mental illness is, and which forms of it are unacceptable. Should people with autism be put in an institution? How about those with Down Syndrome? I don't disagree with most of your assessment of the situation, but it's all intertwined with other issues which plague our society. There are possible solutions, but they won't be quick or easy.
 

Mr Brown

Registered
I dont' care about religion either way. I'm simply saying it was a good tool to keep people behaving. The religion one believes in is irrelevent. The fact that most religions promote positive behavior is the point. The fact that all have killed in their religion's name is irrelevant.

At least here in the states, I would say that until the early 90's late 80's religion was a part of most peoples lives. Due to this, large amounts of the population strove to at least behave. Now that religion is no longer as popular here in the states, I feel that people have lost a lot of courtesy and politeness that they used to have due to religion regardless of the belief.

Personally I do not believe in any form of religion and I would NEVER voluntarily hand in my firearms. One cannot rely on police to save them in any situation. ANY situation. My best chance to save myself and my family from being victims is being armed with the best weapon I can be. Currently that is a rifle that I have trained with for many many years.
Religion has been used to oppress people for millennia, it's an incredibly effective weapon.
Regarding your statement that being armed represents your best chance to save yourself and your loved ones implies that a life or death situation is likely to occur. Such things do indeed occur, but for most folks the chances of it are extremely slim, much lower than the chance that a firearm will be accidentally discharged or used on a family member.
You have dedicated a lot your adult life to carreers in which weapons training is a huge part, most have not. To think that everyone can handle firearms like you can is foolish, yet we allow almost everyone the same access that you have. That doesn't make sense.
 

Lodi

Registered
Guns aren't THE problem, but ease of access to them is A problem. One of the consequences of the war on drugs is that prisons are full of people who are not a danger to society in a violent sense, so there is less room for truly dangerous individuals. One of the problems with forced institutionalization is who gets to decide what mental illness is, and which forms of it are unacceptable. Should people with autism be put in an institution? How about those with Down Syndrome? I don't disagree with most of your assessment of the situation, but it's all intertwined with other issues which plague our society. There are possible solutions, but they won't be quick or easy.
I don’t have a problem with requiring a little time for a solid background check before a gun as long as it wasn’t turned into something that took months to complete. As for forced institutionalization, I agree that who gets to decide is a slippery slope. Not going to solve it all here.
 
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