My experience on road tuning my turbo gen1

[hendrixgr]

Hi.
I thought that it might be a good idea to share what i found while trying to ROAD tune my gen1 turbo Hayabusa with the community.
Let me say that this is my opinion only, i am just trying to learn how to tune my bike my self which means that i could be wrong.
In order not to mess with my original 2007 gen1 ECU i bought a second hand 2003 ECU upon which i tried all my tests, i have built my own ecu flashing equipment which works fine and i do have a pcv with boost reference and an AEM wideband failsafe installed on my bike, the pcv boost reference comes from the AEM wideband gauge's analog output.
My fuel system consists of a Bosch external fuel pump, an 1:1 Aeromotive fuel regulator set at 43psi and Honda Firebird injectors rated at 340cc/min.
My aim is to road tune the bike the best i can and i shoot for 13.2 AFR below 4000 rpm and 12:1 above that, max boost is 12 psi intercooled.
I use the maximum PCV map resolution of 51 columns and i have adjusted the map in a way that the pcv's negative pressure region
use same values as the stock ecu by using a conversion table i found here OK...need some tuning help in ECU Editor.... - ECU hacking
By using the AEM wideband gauge i started tuning my bike using the pcv, something that worked very well indeed, the problems started when i tried to modify the ecu maps in order to reflect the needed changes and use the ecu with the pcv disabled (all maps with zeros).
What i found by repeated testing is that either the stock gen1 ecu does not control the injectors very well at low speeds (up to 2000 rpm), something that the pcv does remarkably well, or there is something in the gen1 ecu that does not let me lean the idle and IAT region as the best i achieved was 11,5:1 at idle and 12.5:1 at 3000 rpm, above that the ecu controls the injectors
and AFR very well.
The ecu almost behaves like it has a hardcoded lower limit for the injector timing at low rpm so if i try to use anything below it's "internal" low limit it discards it.
Another very strange thing i found is that the 2003 ecu when flashed with the exact same firmware as my original 2007 ecu behaved different on the road, it was much smoother when accelerating (btw the pcv was disabled by filling it's maps with zeros and it's acceleration enrichment was off).
The only thing i didn't tried was to physically remove the pcv, maybe it is interfering with the ecu injector timing even when its maps are filled with zeros.
Anyway that is what i found SO FAR as i continue to test various schemes....
Chris

 

[Quiksilver]

nice write up keep us posted

 

[Boosted Cycle Perf]

Hello chris, I have some insight that may help you make tuning go a bit smoother.

Start with a new map.

First, with your ecu set up. Go to advanced settings and since your using bigger injectors, go to the fuel injector compensation tab. This helps the ecu compensate for different injector sizes. 100% is stock 280cc. Figure at 230cc's, your about 10-15 percent higher. So I'd probably set it for 115%. I also suggest going in to the fuel and ignition tables and click on the "U" to unify all your maps.

Next go to dyno settings, and set that at turbo mode. This disables the ram air compensation you see in 5th and 6th gears.

I'd also go in to the limiters tab, and click to remove top speed limiter, and enable hard fuel cut, that will kill fuel and spark when in the limiter.

With all that set up, I'd then go to your pcv. Everything under the vacuum portion of the map, zero it. You made mention of it seems like the ecu doesn't control injectors very well, and I believe it's because your injector scailing was off. I can lean the bike out at idle or part throttle within .1 afr of it breaking up and popping if need. The ecu has great control.

Now start the bike, and note the afr. If it's still a little fat, say like 11.8 at idle, shut the bike off and go in to the IAP section of the map. Highlight from 68-0, then all the way down to 12,800rpm. Hit the - key and try taking out 4% (4 clicks. Don't know if it's a percentage change, but it will display -4 in the top right of the screen) the reason I say highlight that whole area is because of its fat at idle, it will be fat at crushing at 60mph. The IAP map is what the ecu uses for idle and part throttle crushing. Suzuki spend tons of time blending that map to be smooth. Most people will just make changes in little parts of the map, which works ok for that particular point, but if you get the next cell over, the afr will change drastically. You may also find depending on gearing that say at like 75mph, you'll be over 10% throttle, and you'll actually be cruising using the 10-20% tps portion of the tps map. You can use the same strategy as I mentioned to dial in the lower portion of the tps map for fine tuning of afrs.

Don't get too cought up on wanting certain afrs at certain rpm levels at anything other then WOT. You need to give the engine what it wants, not what regular logic would dictate. Busas like fuel. I've tuned some bikes at part throttle where at 12.5 they run nice and smooth, no popping, and excellent throttle response but if I tried 12.7-8 they ran like crap. Likewise I've had some that run silky smooth up to 13.5. It just depends on the bike.

Last bit of info I can share is aem wide bands tend to read .4-.8 RICHER then what it really is. So for example your 11.5 under boost might actually be 12.1. Take the time and do yourself a favor, and check your reading against another known good wideband. Weather it's a dynos, or an emissions testing equipment it's worth a check.

Hope all this helps.

 

[Boosted Cycle Perf]

nice write up keep us posted

Speaking of tuning, what's up buuuuddddyyyy?!?

 

[hendrixgr]

Thank you!
Another thing i noticed is that when checking the bin file with both ecuedtor and Woolich Racing Tuned (WRT) i found some discrepancies.
Following the direction found in WRT site (about using the bin file with both ecueditor and WRT) i opened an ecueditor created bin file, removed the speed limit, enabled the hardcut option and saved the file.
The problem is that when i open the file using WRT the speed limit is still active and the hardcut option disabled which means that either one of the programs has a bug or WRT does things differently.
Chris

 

[Boosted Cycle Perf]

I can't comment on that as I don't use the woodlich stuff. But I'll just say I wouldn't be surprised if it was a glitch on their behalf.

 

[hendrixgr]

Great info, thank you very much!!!
I have already printed your instructions (i am making a tuning manual for my reference only)
Now i have already did what you mentioned as the bike was also dyno tuned (i don't want to burn the motor ) but the fuel injector compensation that was left at 100% as you said.
I believe you are correct that this might be the cause and i also understand that some high rpm enrichment might be needed
if i set this setting at 115-120% as this will lean out the whole map, am i right?
I also need to add that my setup is rather complicated as i have the stock ecu with a pcv that it is boost referenced and a split second box that controls the plenum 450cc/min injectors (again boost referenced)
I have mastered the split second box programming and i feel comfortable with it so i can use it to enrich the wot rpm.
Another question in my mind is how to make the split second box cut the fuel when the ecu commands a fuel hardcut as it will continue to supply fuel to the motor from the plenum injectors since it can't possibly know that a fuel hardcut command is issued (unless the tach signal input to the split second is cut something that i can do by checking for injector pulses with a small arduino type cpu).
Maybe i can use an injector signal scaled down to 5v (with transient protection of course) to drive the split second box.
Do you know if the stock ECU also cuts the ignition along the fuel during hardcut rpm limiting ?
About the wrt differences i again believe you are right as i also get different rpm limits depending what program i use to read the bin file.
In EcuEditor i set the rpm limit at 11300 rpm but when i read the bin file with the WRT i get 11450 rpm (150 RPM higher).

Thank you again for your help!
Chris

 

[OZBooster]

There are tables for below 2000 rpm , there in Raider, Editor and Woolich
probably easiest used with Woolich in map mode low

oh and i remember someone explaining about differences like the rpm limit,or table numbers its to do with the rounding of larger numbers , the real computer language running in the background rather than the simplified bit we see

 

[hendrixgr]

Hi.
Yes i know about the rounding but i wasn't sure about the low mode map in WRT, is this a subset of the main map or a completely different one?
It looks like it is a part of the "high" or main map and not a completely different and autonomous map.
About the split second box i didn't installed it my self so i will trace the tach input wire to see where it is connected (hopefully in a injector drive wire)
Chris

 

[Johnnycheese]

Better yet set the IAP to zero and only tune TPS. Works a lot better at low speeds

 

[nosbig]

Murderedout07 that was some great detailed advice. It is nice to have sponsors on here that are so helpful in teaching people there trade.

It's one thing for people to try to learn together, but something totally different for professionals to step in and give trade secrets and tips that it has taken years for them to learn.

This particular thread does not apply to me but I would still like to thank ALL the people that make this such a great place to learn.

 

[hendrixgr]

Better yet set the IAP to zero and only tune TPS. Works a lot better at low speeds

Hi.
I was "afraid" that this might be true, i will try it also, thank you for the help, it is indeed the low end (IAT table) that i am trying to tune for better drivability.
When you say to write zeros in the IAT map you mean in the ecu by using ecueditor or in the pcv?
I managed to trace the tach signal of the split second box and it goes to injector 1 so i guess the hardcut fuel function works on the plenum injectors also.

Another thing i chase is that the 2003 ecu (loaded with the same firmware as my 2007 ecu) seems to have acceleration enrichment while my 2007 ecu clearly does not because when i accelerate from say 2500 rpm, Afr on my 2003 ecu goes from 13.5 to 10.5-11 but on my 2007 ecu goes from 13.5 to 15-16 and the motor almost stalls.
Both ecus show 0 at the acceleration enrichment setting of the ecueditor and the pcv's acceleration enrichment is disabled (actually the pcv settings are not changed between ecu swaps)
Finally i must say that i feel much obliged for all of your expert but above all friendly help.
Chris

 

[Don Hardcastle]

Just read thru this and I wanted to say that after being here a little over 10 years, this is why the .Org is so freaking amazing.

 

[OZBooster]

The "idle" maps are completely different to the main table and are part of the factory setup not a added subroutine like some other features

interesting the difference between ecus, not something i have noticed

 

[hendrixgr]

interesting the difference between ecus, not something i have noticed

Another minor difference i noticed is the time needed to start the motor, the 2007 ecu start almost immediately while the 2003 ecu needs at least one second of cranking when the engine is cold.
When the engine is hot they are the same.
Chris

 

[hendrixgr]

Just uploaded the ecu with a file that looks like it works excellent
What i did is to follow all the tips in this thread and also reduce the low map area (from 600 rpm to 2000 rpm) by using the WRT software.
Next i will give a shot to TPS tuning for low rpm area so i can compare the two methods.
I want to ask if there is any way to edit this "low" idle map area using ecueditor ?
Chris

 

[Johnnycheese]

Also don't get hung up on any number give the motor what it needs.

 

[hendrixgr]

Also don't get hung up on any number give the motor what it needs.

You are absolutely correct, i have learned that theoretically correct tuning does not make the bike go fast...
Chris

 

[fallenarch]

Wow! good thread gentleman. I was getting bored here at work too.

 

[OZBooster]

Unless something has changed in the last few yrs Editor will do it but i cant find my documentation that tells the keystroke to open that table,and not used gen 1 editor for a loooong time to remember
if no one here can help try asking on the ecuhacking site