which turbo?



kentmax5

Registered
Well, have done some research, and of course it only leads to more questions.
have talked to RCC and Scott at Cyclewerkz,
1) which turbo stage 1 kit is better....RCC or Velocity Racing?
2) I am looking for everyday rideability and running the Texas Mile twice a year. is a turbo charged stock motor or built motor(1397) more reliable?
3) how many miles can I expect, 50,000? before rebuild
and a side note....what kinda gas mileage on a turbo? I like to ride long distance some times......thanks guys and gals for your time and input. ???
 

PaulCav

Registered
I can answer this questions as I have owned a Velocity Stage 1 turbo since 2007 and written many an article about it.

#1. I am biased towards the Velocity as they have been doing them for along time and own most of the drag racing records. Not too mention Barry himself and Ken have been extremely helpful throughout my experience with the turbo.

#2. If you use a stage 1 turbo from either manufacturer for everyday street riding I am sure it will be reliable and cause few if any issues. When I ride mine on the street I very rarely have enough room to get much over 2.5 lbs of boost. I also strongly recommend you have the complete fuel map done across all the throttle percentage ranges as well as the RPM ranges by a competent tuner of turbos and it is done on an eddy current dyno.

If you plan on drag racing the bike on a regular basis as I do then plan to slowly replace all of your stock engine internals. These turbos are easily capable of producing 240HP on a stock engine. When drag racing it at 100% throttle parts start to break.

The first you will find you want to replace is your stock clutch basket with an APE Billet Clutch Basket and Hub. The stock one has a tendency to eventually explode. The next thing you will want to do is replace your stock output shaft with an APE Billet output shaft as the stock one tends to break off where it necks down for the front sprocket. While in the engine you may as well put in the two billet shift fork shafts APE makes.

If you have any issue with your A/F ratios the stock pistons tend to give up, so I went with a set of custom made CP Pistons to the factory specs (11.0:1) as they tend to be a bit more forgiving if your A/F strays. (My stock pistons failed in three passes after my FMU came offline.)

I have heard the factory rods are fairly decent although I never tested this so I put Falicon Knife rods in on a suggestion from Mike Slowe a few years ago. (What better endorsement could you have?)

Lastly, go ahead and spend the money by putting a set of APE cylinder head studs in since your head will start to lift under prolonged 6lbs boost runs with the stock head bolts.

If you really want to be safe have Race Machine Inc. put some AMPCO 45 Skulls in your head also. I love these things, bike runs cooler and less prone to damage if you run lean.

#3 I go into my engine at the end of every race season, it is always better to catch an issue before it goes south. Anytime you increase the HP of an engine with any power adder the reliability is in question. If you ride it on the street only as I said earlier you will more than likely not have to ever go into it.

Side note and bonus question. Prior to the turbo I got 32 mpg on the street and 25 or so drag racing. Post turbo, 17 mpg on the street and 14 mpg on the strip.

If I had to do it all over again... I would get a bigger turbo.

:: DRAGBIKE.COM :: DRAGBIKE MAGAZINE :: Hayabusa Engine Rebuild for the 2010 Race Season - Part 1 :: (Part 2 coming out in a week or so.)
:: DRAGBIKE.COM :: DRAGBIKE MAGAZINE :: How to limit your Horsepower by Adding a Turbo ::
 

PaulCav

Registered
Just an observation, but I am thinking the original poster was looking for a little more information than just a turbo type recommendaton...:poke:
 

Destin07

Registered
Well, have done some research, and of course it only leads to more questions.
have talked to RCC and Scott at Cyclewerkz,
1) which turbo stage 1 kit is better....RCC or Velocity Racing?
2) I am looking for everyday rideability and running the Texas Mile twice a year. is a turbo charged stock motor or built motor(1397) more reliable?
3) how many miles can I expect, 50,000? before rebuild
and a side note....what kinda gas mileage on a turbo? I like to ride long distance some times......thanks guys and gals for your time and input. ???
1. As far as product support, design, power out put ect....I'm would go with RCC. Their stage 1 also has an external wastegate and Richard can always be reached 99% of the time

2. If the 1397 is built correctly....technically its more reliable because you don't run the risk of component failure as you would with a turbo....its really irrelevant because if you go with a high quality kit "RCC" there are tons and tons of them on the street with no problems....pick your poison a 200RWHP 1397 or 230-250RWHP turbo...I would def go with the turbo. Texas Mile is pushing your luck. Even with C16 racefuel you will have no intercooling at all and your tune would have to be absolutely 120% on....its a nice way to toast your setup. LSR kills even some of the best prepared motors and bikes....majority of it is the tune and setup but there are only a few guys that have the expierence necessary to yield positive results

3. If your bike has previously been maintained correctly, its tuned properly and you don't mess with it and keep the boost within a stock motors designed limitations....then yes 50K should be fine out of a turbo. They can be fine tuned by someone who knows what they are doing for better gas mileage....turbo will def get better mileage than you will with a big bore
 

Destin07

Registered
I can answer this questions as I have owned a Velocity Stage 1 turbo since 2007 and written many an article about it.

#1. I am biased towards the Velocity as they have been doing them for along time and own most of the drag racing records. Not too mention Barry himself and Ken have been extremely helpful throughout my experience with the turbo.

#2. If you use a stage 1 turbo from either manufacturer for everyday street riding I am sure it will be reliable and cause few if any issues. When I ride mine on the street I very rarely have enough room to get much over 2.5 lbs of boost. I also strongly recommend you have the complete fuel map done across all the throttle percentage ranges as well as the RPM ranges by a competent tuner of turbos and it is done on an eddy current dyno.

If you plan on drag racing the bike on a regular basis as I do then plan to slowly replace all of your stock engine internals. These turbos are easily capable of producing 240HP on a stock engine. When drag racing it at 100% throttle parts start to break.

The first you will find you want to replace is your stock clutch basket with an APE Billet Clutch Basket and Hub. The stock one has a tendency to eventually explode. The next thing you will want to do is replace your stock output shaft with an APE Billet output shaft as the stock one tends to break off where it necks down for the front sprocket. While in the engine you may as well put in the two billet shift fork shafts APE makes.

If you have any issue with your A/F ratios the stock pistons tend to give up, so I went with a set of custom made CP Pistons to the factory specs (11.0:1) as they tend to be a bit more forgiving if your A/F strays. (My stock pistons failed in three passes after my FMU came offline.)

I have heard the factory rods are fairly decent although I never tested this so I put Falicon Knife rods in on a suggestion from Mike Slowe a few years ago. (What better endorsement could you have?)

Lastly, go ahead and spend the money by putting a set of APE cylinder head studs in since your head will start to lift under prolonged 6lbs boost runs with the stock head bolts.

If you really want to be safe have Race Machine Inc. put some AMPCO 45 Skulls in your head also. I love these things, bike runs cooler and less prone to damage if you run lean.

#3 I go into my engine at the end of every race season, it is always better to catch an issue before it goes south. Anytime you increase the HP of an engine with any power adder the reliability is in question. If you ride it on the street only as I said earlier you will more than likely not have to ever go into it.

Side note and bonus question. Prior to the turbo I got 32 mpg on the street and 25 or so drag racing. Post turbo, 17 mpg on the street and 14 mpg on the strip.

If I had to do it all over again... I would get a bigger turbo.

:: DRAGBIKE.COM :: DRAGBIKE MAGAZINE :: Hayabusa Engine Rebuild for the 2010 Race Season - Part 1 :: (Part 2 coming out in a week or so.)
:: DRAGBIKE.COM :: DRAGBIKE MAGAZINE :: How to limit your Horsepower by Adding a Turbo ::
All good info but for a guy asking about street riding and 50K mile reliablity I think drag racing probably isn't in his plans or if it is then he is off to a bad start anyway. Then again if hes going to eventually go bigger and more power then some of the stuff you say applies.

* At stage 1 power levels, no need for rods, aftermarket clutch baskets....if your A/F strays you will melt down an aftermarket piston just as fast as a stock one, I run up to 400HP on the street , the racemachine skulls are extremely overkill. I Have a 600HP RCC ultra kit bike that I 100% street ride...it gets 27 MPG out of boost
 

thepushercg

veni vidi vici
Donating Member
Registered
turbo all the way
i have talked to richard at rcc he is a class act and i highly recomend him.
 

widebody350

Registered
Why not run a 1397 with a turbo? I understand the surface area for the head gasket to seal becomes greatly reduced, but I read as long as you stay under 1400 you are ok. The other number I've seen a lot is 1363, but I don't see that making much difference in spool time, and therefore not worth compromising reliability. What size turbos are the guys with these stroker motors running? If the same size, what kind of difference in spool?
 

piratediverjefff

Registered
1. As far as product support, design, power out put ect....I'm would go with RCC. Their stage 1 also has an external wastegate and Richard can always be reached 99% of the time

2. If the 1397 is built correctly....technically its more reliable because you don't run the risk of component failure as you would with a turbo....its really irrelevant because if you go with a high quality kit "RCC" there are tons and tons of them on the street with no problems....pick your poison a 200RWHP 1397 or 230-250RWHP turbo...I would def go with the turbo. Texas Mile is pushing your luck. Even with C16 racefuel you will have no intercooling at all and your tune would have to be absolutely 120% on....its a nice way to toast your setup. LSR kills even some of the best prepared motors and bikes....majority of it is the tune and setup but there are only a few guys that have the expierence necessary to yield positive results

3. If your bike has previously been maintained correctly, its tuned properly and you don't mess with it and keep the boost within a stock motors designed limitations....then yes 50K should be fine out of a turbo. They can be fine tuned by someone who knows what they are doing for better gas mileage....turbo will def get better mileage than you will with a big bore
:thumbsup:
 

HayabusaPilot

Registered
Just to throw it out there... I currently have a 2007 with a Hahn Racecraft Stage one turbo. The turbo was installed on the bike the day I bought it off the show room floor and the bike now has over 29,000 miles on it. I use it almost every day and I ride 2 up with the wife on long trips (Tucson to San Diego, Vegas, Reno, etc) The boost was set up to about 6 pounds and the stock exhaust set up (so far) appears to be helping limit any boost creep from the internal waste gate. Last dyno was at 223 rwhp (not big numbers, but plenty) and we've had no issues with the turbo or engine, even in the 107+ summer temps here in AZ. Bike goes in for Suzuki recommended maintenance every 3,000 miles and the bike did a 201mph Garmin GPS verified run. The boost is used sporadically here and there, no super long runs. We've been tracking the mpg since it was built; about 39 mpg average since 2007. The engine internals are basically stock, although reading this site has peaked some interest in the A.P.E. studs/nuts for the engine head.
 
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