What's the main cause of the bad breaks

Bofh_uk

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I've spent quite a bit of time trying to get my 99 Busa to stop, I have the sintered pads, braided lines, £400 wavy disks and they were a huge improvement. But it's still pants!

I've bled the fronts many times so I can only assume air is getting in from the top somewhere as there's always air in the system when I bleed it, i get rid of it, then it's back again....

I've heard many people argue about the front caliplers and the master cylinder, I just wondered what people here have found to solve the problem.

If I'm going to make a change what should it be, calipers or master cylinder, or both!!

Fast is good but stopping before you hit the wall is also a good idea :please:
 
The pads are grabbing to late? Making noise? What are you using to bleed the brake lines?

I have EBC HH Pads and Galfer SS lines, w/ stock rotors... no probs whatsoever.
 
Let's see?

Having the wife and girlfriend pregnant at the same time? This would be the most likely cause of bad breaks! :dunno:

:poke:
 
Let's see?

Having the wife and girlfriend pregnant at the same time? This would be the most likely cause of bad breaks! :dunno:

:poke:

:rofl:


I've spent quite a bit of time trying to get my 99 Busa to stop, I have the sintered pads, braided lines, £400 wavy disks and they were a huge improvement. But it's still pants!

I've bled the fronts many times so I can only assume air is getting in from the top somewhere as there's always air in the system when I bleed it, i get rid of it, then it's back again....

I've heard many people argue about the front caliplers and the master cylinder, I just wondered what people here have found to solve the problem.

If I'm going to make a change what should it be, calipers or master cylinder, or both!!

Fast is good but stopping before you hit the wall is also a good idea :please:

Can you explin the "pants" term a bit?
Thanks.
 
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Let's see?

Having the wife and girlfriend pregnant at the same time? This would be the most likely cause of bad breaks! :dunno:

:poke:

Dude thats scary and funny!

I have trouble getting any leaver, I've blead the system many times and even when there's no air in there the leaver still travells to close to the bar before biting well enough. I've seen it on many other busas. I have the stumpy two finger leavers with tons of adjustment but still can't get it right.
 
I would take it to a reputable shop and have them help you adjust the levers and bleed the brakes at the same time. This may help you out.
 
I'm curious with this outcome too. My lever pulls almost all the way to the bar. Stopping sucks compared to anything i've ever ridden (sport bike). I have the braided lines and good pads. I want to upgrade to the Galfer rotors. My research on making the brakes better is to change the master cylinder to 19x20.
 
There is no way the lever should come all the way back to the bar. Especially with upgraded lines.

Y'all have a small amount of air in the system.

cheers
ken
 
The leaver isnt going all the way back to the bar, it's finishing about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch from the bar. I can bleed it and get the leaver ok but not perfect, then after a while its crap again.

I'll be having a look at it tomorrow hopefully. It's strange that not many of you USA/Canada guys don't seem to have to many problems with breaks, if you go over to the UK forums there are many people in the same position as me and looking for answers.

I've had all the seals replaced in the calipers (loads of money) all I have left to look at is the master cylinder unless there is a leak in the lines. Thing is there's no loss of fluid anywhere.
 
I hope this will help you... air can be trapped in the [Banjo bolts] Master cylinder and at the calipers......you know what i mean?? where the hoses bolt to the M.C and calipers..
Put a 12mm wrench on it and wrap a big rag around the area..two people works best
One to hold lever pressure while you loosen the banjo's....lever all the way to the grip and hold untill you tighten it... over and over.. and make sure the the Master cyl does not run out of oil..it's messy and try not to get brake fluid on yer paint.
 
theres a post some where ref to seals in calipers , i didnt realize this but apparantly they only fit one way, if wrong the pistons can retract to far causing excess travel on the first pump of the brake but dont take my word for it ( does it feel better if you pump the lever a couple of times ?) i had the same prob with mine for some time , but having just replaced rotors from black shadow.uk the brake is solid , go figure :whistle:
 
Hi Delbert, it's strange but the USA guys don't seem to suffer too bad with their breaks but here in the UK I've never met another Busa rider that thought his breaks were ok or even close to ok.

I had both front calipers re-built before the winter got here so I'm confident they are ok. I might try back bleading at the master cylinder as sugested earlier as I've seen that problem on cars before.

However I know a fair few blokes that have tried everything I have and more. I have Galfer fronts and braided lines and sintered pads, it's a huge improvement but still no good. I also have Pazzo levers and although I like them loads I think the original lever works a little better as it seems to have more cam to work the master cylinder.

It would be nice to find what the best part is to change, I suspect it will end up being the master cylinder.

I'll figure it out at some point, just hope I don't hit the wall first lol
 
I recently did mine and found out I had a bad bleeder screw on the rear. Once I changed it, the rear brake felt solid. It wasn't leaking enough fluid for me to see any, but pulling air into the line. I think I would start there, since you already changed everything else. Plus, it's not a huge expense.
 
I recently did mine and found out I had a bad bleeder screw on the rear. Once I changed it, the rear brake felt solid. It wasn't leaking enough fluid for me to see any, but pulling air into the line. I think I would start there, since you already changed everything else. Plus, it's not a huge expense.


Hmm that's an interesting thought, I also seem to remember a bag of "spare" bleed screws in my tool box. If it makes a difference I'll owe you a virtual beer or 10!
 
A few comments...

1. Could it be that the problem is caused by a short lever? The shorter the lever, the less leverage you have while squeezing the lever. Try to install a regular length lever. On top of that, try holding the throttle with your thumb and indexed finger while braking with the rest of the fingers (like in OK sign below). This way you are squeezing the lever at the furthest point from the pivot point - thus producing more effort at the master cylinder. This also makes it easy to cover the brake lever all the time.

23501559.jpg


2. If you use some sort of vacuum method of bleeding the brakes at the caliper, some air gets sucked in throught the bleed screw. It didn't come from the caliper - so I wouldn't conclude you had air in the system solely based on that. When bleeding this way you always see a trace of bubles coming through the clear hose.

3. Prior to a regular vacuum bleeding, you can try to feed the fluid through each caliper using some sort of syringe (I used the one to fill ink cartridges). This way the air gets pushed up and is much less likely to stay in the system. Just make sure you have no air when you connect syringe to the caliper bleed screw via the clear hose. Another words, connect the clear hose to the bleed screw, fill with fluid, have a filled syringe completely filled, stick the syringe into the hose and slowly push. Repeat until you see fluid coming out in the reservoir. When this is done, you can continue with regular vacuum style bleeding for a bit.

4. If the braking system was fine right after you bled it, but after a few days feels spongy, this obvously means you got some air in there. Wipe everything clean around calipers, banjo bolts, lines, master cylinder, reservoir , then queeze the lever and hold it there for a minute while squeezed. If there is even a tiny leak, it should show as a tiny drop. Another silly possibility - you didn't leave the reservoir almost empty, right?

5. Another possibility is that you master cylinder does not seal 100%. However, if this was the issue, you would experience the problem all the time consistently.

6. Another possibilty is that some of your pistons are stuck pretty bad and it takes a lot more effort to get them moving. But again, you would experience the problem all the time regardless of bleeding.

7. Try EBC HH pads. They made a huge difference. You can also try EBC HH Extreme (not sure about exact name) - those are pricey, but even better.

8. Take a look at your brake pads - do you see any silverish spots on them? If so, they are glazed and their braking ability is greatly reduced (remember when you were braking from triple digits almost to a stop -that did it). Rub them against 100 grit sandpaper (i.e. put the sandpaper on the flat surface and move glazed brake pads on them). Once you got rid of the sliverish spots, put the pads back on, and treat them like new (i.e. you have to brake them in gradually).

Report back with your findings. Please try to be very specific - devil is in the details.
 
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