OK.. here's the story~ I was wrong about them driving to the impound yard.. apparently the walked~
Try this link...
http://www.tbo.com/news/metro/MGBK7G4Q9IE.html
Try this link...
http://www.tbo.com/news/metro/MGBK7G4Q9IE.html
Tow truck driver shoots man
- Thread starter BrianKesler
- Start date
..............Glen Rich has five children,
If indeed they were backing away, said tow truck driver will be in the big house in Stark Fla. for a long time.People dont realize even if you have a CTC,the finality of you ending someone's life has to be the very last resort.He'll have a load of questions to answer,I bet he loses this one.If it were Texas,and after sunset,case closed.Thats already been proven in a situation almost Identical to this one.The driver gets paid whether the dude steals his car back,so yeah, he shot the dude because of adrenalin,accident,what ever.He shot the dude over a 50-75 buck tow,when he could have simply walked away and billed the city for the tow,which he will do anyway.OK.. as the story goes...
These three guys (all brothers) where at a local bar drinking to the passing of a fourth brother they had just laid to rest~ The bar is next to a Kanes (a furnature store) which had hired the towing company to keep the bar patrons from parking in their lot~
The brothers had left the bar and was told by witnesses one of their vehicles had been towed to a yard just around the corner~ As they aproached the tow truck driver he began "waving his gun in their faces"~ They said they didn't want any trouble like that and climbed back into their car~ The tow truck driver kept aim on them and as the brothers were backing away from the driver he got off one shot~ Don't know if his trigger finger just twitched or what~ The brothers didn't even realize one of them had been shot until they got somewhere and someone had noticed one of them was bleeding~ He died later in the hospital from the loss of blood~
I'll try to dig up and post the actual story later... and can't seem to copy and paste from this HP Client PC at the office~
I am a licensed carry holder and still find this wrong~ If the guys had been backing away, the driver had no right to shoot~ His finger shouldn't even have been on the trigger.. if it was a case of itchy trigger finger~If the guys had attempted to run him down, then yes.. he was in his rights to shoot~ But that's not the way I had read the story~
I'll see if I can dig it up...
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Relsek
Registered
If the way gjoker puts it is the way it happened, and the guy was waving his gun, and fired at someone that wasn't an immediate threat, the tow truck driver needs to answer for what he has done. The last thing we need is someone like this making this the norm. If that happens, we will begin losing the ground we have made as far as personal protection rights.
one time my tcar quit on me around 20 yards from r.r. tracks i just needed a wrench tighten battery cable walked to my house 3 blocks away to get came back car towed:angry: went to tow yard they said cops called to close to tracks no way they would have hit:angry:
he was closing so i pushed my car across street i had not to kind words for them
Relsek
Registered
I just read the news write up on it. It appears that the witnesses were also the brothers. It appears that the tow truck driver had in itchy finger, but I also know that some people have a tendancy to lie and I wouldn't doubt that the brothers could be lieing. I'll withold all judgement at this point, I wasn't there and don't know the facts. I can however imagine three brothers that had been drinking attempting to take their anger out on me while I was just doing my job. We hear of cases like this all the time where the victim is not armed and becomes the statistic.
One thing I think you should look at is how long has this guy been licensed to carry. If he's been carrying for 10 years or more without an incedent, he probably is not trigger happy. If he just got his license last week however, you might be able to make that argument.
Kevin
One thing I think you should look at is how long has this guy been licensed to carry. If he's been carrying for 10 years or more without an incedent, he probably is not trigger happy. If he just got his license last week however, you might be able to make that argument.
Kevin
From reading the news report, sounds like the tow truck driver was totally wrong. Should have just let the brothers go and call the cops. As nitrousjunkie states, the truck driver still gets paid. So, why kill someone? Man I feel sorry for the wife and kids. How will the kids ever understand their daddy is gone. Breaks my heart.
We don't know all the facts and I believe there's plenty of blame to go around. Those brothers were not drinking juicy fruits in the Sugar Shack all night long.
Tow truck drivers are not police.
If you tow someone's car, they follow and steal it back. YOU LET THEM.
You DO NOT jump in front of the car waving a gun.
Whether or not the car backed up or moved forward to the tow truck driver, we'll never know. But it is highly unlikely that if the guy was shot, drove to convinence store to call 911, the tow truck driver wasn't struck by the car, that he put the tow truck driver's life in jeporardy. Much more likely the tow truck driver overreacted or simply was pissed off and shot the guy.
Bottom line,
The tow truck driver was wrong to try and stop the brothers. Should've called the police.
The tow truck driver was wrong to stand in front of the car attempting to keep them from driving away. Should've stood to the side away from danger.
You have the right to protect yourself, but not act like a police officer.
<!--EDIT|Charlesbusa
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If you tow someone's car, they follow and steal it back. YOU LET THEM.
You DO NOT jump in front of the car waving a gun.
Whether or not the car backed up or moved forward to the tow truck driver, we'll never know. But it is highly unlikely that if the guy was shot, drove to convinence store to call 911, the tow truck driver wasn't struck by the car, that he put the tow truck driver's life in jeporardy. Much more likely the tow truck driver overreacted or simply was pissed off and shot the guy.
Bottom line,
The tow truck driver was wrong to try and stop the brothers. Should've called the police.
The tow truck driver was wrong to stand in front of the car attempting to keep them from driving away. Should've stood to the side away from danger.
You have the right to protect yourself, but not act like a police officer.
<!--EDIT|Charlesbusa
Reason for Edit: None given...|1137016915 -->
Theres certainly enough blame to go around.Still. 5 kids lost there father over a 75 dollar tow,would have been better if all the brothers went to jail for maybe DUI or "drunk and disorderly" or "public intoxication" If they tried to run dude over,bust a cap is my motto,I'm sure all will come out in the investigation.I bet the tow truck driver is "reflecting" right about now.
Relsek
Registered
As I was reading the news article, I was reminded that in many cases today, the person reporting the news attaches their point-of-view on issues into the story more and more frequently. I have become more and more sceptical of news stories these days.
NJ, you say that 5 kids lost their father over a 75 dollar tow, and that may be the case. It also could be the case that 5 kids lost their father because their father and uncles made some bad decisions one night and are paying the consequenses for it.
I was involved in a crash one time where is was obvious that the other driver was at fault, but when the trooper was talking to witnesses, (the parents of the other driver who just happened to be two cars behind her) It appeared that I was at fault. They did not give truthful information in an attempt to clear their daughter. Fortunately I had gotten the phone number of another witness before he left the scene and the trooper called it and cleared up the whole thing.
It is possible that the brother's are not giving the complete story.
kev
Kevin, I'm mostly in agreement with you, but dont you think he could have called the police? Youre right,there was prolly enough testosterone oozing to do us all,but the police are the ones that should have been called the second the brothers drove up, he could have dialed 911 and let the police hear and track everything that was going on and about to happen.The tow truck driver was going to get paid whether they took the car or not.
I not only feel gor the 5 children that became fatherless over this, but I also feel for the parents of the brother too~ They just came here to bury one son only to have to stay longer to bury another~ It's hard enough for any parent to have to bury their child... two in a weeks time has got to be tough~
It's true there could be some false facts being reported by the family~ I gotta think if the driver fired from in front of the vehicle, there would be a bullet hole in the windshield~ Then it would have to be determined in which direction the car was traveling when said shot rang out~ If they were indeed backing out, tow truck driver, and most likely the Towing Company, could be in a world of hurt~ If they were in a forward motion, it would have to be determined if the tow driver jumped in front or the brothers were delibertly driving at him~ If he jumped in harms way, he's still in a world of hurt~ If they were trying to run him down, he was well within his rights to shot~ It remains to be seen... pending the investigation~
NJ is right though... just because we are licensed doesn't give us the right to go waving our guns in peoples faces and shoting at will~ Your life, or the life of another, must be in imediate danger of the life threatening kind, before you can shot~ Florida also doesn't allow a warning shot~ If you pull the trigger, you best be aiming for the kill zone~ The way Florida sees it.. if you had time to fire a warning shot, your life wasn't in imediate danger.. and to jail you will go~
It's true there could be some false facts being reported by the family~ I gotta think if the driver fired from in front of the vehicle, there would be a bullet hole in the windshield~ Then it would have to be determined in which direction the car was traveling when said shot rang out~ If they were indeed backing out, tow truck driver, and most likely the Towing Company, could be in a world of hurt~ If they were in a forward motion, it would have to be determined if the tow driver jumped in front or the brothers were delibertly driving at him~ If he jumped in harms way, he's still in a world of hurt~ If they were trying to run him down, he was well within his rights to shot~ It remains to be seen... pending the investigation~
NJ is right though... just because we are licensed doesn't give us the right to go waving our guns in peoples faces and shoting at will~ Your life, or the life of another, must be in imediate danger of the life threatening kind, before you can shot~ Florida also doesn't allow a warning shot~ If you pull the trigger, you best be aiming for the kill zone~ The way Florida sees it.. if you had time to fire a warning shot, your life wasn't in imediate danger.. and to jail you will go~
Relsek
Registered
You are so right here. How many times have you run a scenario through your head? I've done it plenty and I am sure that I would only use my weapon as a last resort, I can only imagine that most concealed carriers have done the same and would be as responsible as you and I.
But then again, all it takes to get one is essentially a clean record and take a class.
HT_USMC
Registered
If he had time to draw, aim and fire... he had time to assess the situation. This means he also had time to get out of the way and remove himself for the "threat". He had zero bodily harm done to him and the three brothers drove off. I don't care if they WERE trying to hit him, if he had that kind of time, he had options but he insisted on being a vigilante.
This is almost as bad as saying, "I stepped out into the road, saw vehicles heading my way, so I had a right to pop each driver of the first three cars I saw. Yeah, I knew the curb was only 12" behind me, so?"
It's rediculous.
This is almost as bad as saying, "I stepped out into the road, saw vehicles heading my way, so I had a right to pop each driver of the first three cars I saw. Yeah, I knew the curb was only 12" behind me, so?"
It's rediculous.
Relsek
Registered
I can't say I agree with you there, if we looked at every situation like that, you would never have a reason to defend yourself until it was too late.
If someone is trying to run you down, sure you may be able to jump out of the way, but what if they turn around and come again, then do you have the right to shoot, or should you just keep running until they succeed and run you over.
There comes a time when it is time to defend yourself with force, the problem is none of us really know the full story here and don't know if it was that time.
Nothing like a good debate/exchange! I just want to know how it turns out.Somebody keep us posted.NJ.
HT_USMC
Registered
I agree there is a time to use (potentially) deadly force. Sure a second pass definately merits that possibly. Depending on "all the facts".
Granted the brothers could be lying. Heck for all we know at this point, perhaps they threatened him with a weapon prior to him doing anything. Who knows. I can see both sides of the unknown.
However, there is a significant difference between pulling out a pistol & aiming it at you and starting a car & trying to run you over (assuming that is what they did). That difference is the speed and ease at which death can be delivered. This doesn't mean he doesn't have a right to defend himself. Rather I'm just trying to show that a bullet at speed, that you cannot see, is not the same as a car, that you can see, trying to get fast enough in a small area to make it impossible for you to get out of the way.
So how long of a run did this car have to build speed in it's attempt to hit this guy? I mean how big is this impound yard anyway? Where was this guy in relation to the car when they "stole" it back? If he was right there, it would be easy to avoid the relatively slow moving car and amazingly easy to get a nice clean shot off. If he was yards away, was he really in much danger of being run over while the car built speed? Could he have run for cover? How did the magic bullet prevent the car from hitting him even after the shot was fired? Wouldn't he still have had to avoid the car in the same manner as if he hadn't fire the shot?
Did the brothers get scared by the shot, 180 the car, and race off to a convenience store. Only to have 911 called by a bystander? That seems like a huge risk for 3 guys who are (drinking and) driving a car they stole back from the impound, after attempting to run a guy over, and got shot at... doesn't it?
In addition, why wouldn't the tow truck driver have called the police? I mean, his life was threatened by three guys whom he shot at. If they were drunk, wouldn't he have been able to call the police, explain the situation, give a plate & description, and report the "drunk driver". Wouldn't that have been the next step any one of us would have taken? I think most, if not all, of us would have made that phone call, whether they were drunk or not.
What did this guy do? Argue with them, (almost get run over,) fire at them, and then pack it up and call it a night? That's how it seems. It's like the tow truck driver just shrugged off the near death experience he just had and shrugged off the possibility he may have just killed someone (which he did but it took more time than the instant kill it could have been).
That's where my suspicions kick in because something just doesn't add up.
Relsek
Registered
That's it right there.
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My father owns a big towing company here in Fl. I worked for him for many years and saw enough #### to write a book. people wreck their vehicles, get them impounded, etc. and it's all your fualt the next day when they come to pay the bill and get their vehicles back. You can't believe what you deal with out there. When people see you, they are usually pretty pissed off. I felt like shooting a few just from their attitudes!
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