The Hayabusa turbo system is here!

[OB_c.dolan]

Tried ign. changes on dyno. No change. The turbo may need a hard look. Exhaust ok, no weird noises from turbine, Haven't had a "backfire", that I konw of. The odds seem to favor what Turbo 1186 said. Pray for something "easy".

[This message has been edited by c.dolan (edited 18 January 2000).]

 

[OB_EXCLR8]

OK I have a few questions about the mr turbo system.

1. I have seen other systems that claim to make 300bhp on pump gas but have to use a intercooler. Why would the MRturbo not need one?
2. What affect will the heat have on the plastic? It will no doubt be very close.
3. I pay $3995 for the kit, what else do I have to buy?
4. How much will this shorten engine life?
5. What will this do to reliability?
6. What brand of chain will hold up?
7. Can this be installed by joe blow with engine rebulding experience? yep that is me.
8. What will this due to fuel economy?
9. How would running enough boost to get 300bhp vs 250bhp affect all these questions.
10. How am I going to survive untill I have the other $2000 for the kit?
11. How will I keep tires on the thing?
12. How will I sleep once I have it?

Ok Ok you can forget about the last three question. Sorry so many question, but I am sure these are all questions that some of us have.

Thanks EXCLR8

 

[OB_Hapo]

How much weight is added v.s. How much lost from removal of stock parts? Are there special proceedures to start up or shutdown to be adheared to? The usual questions regarding turbo lag and power delivery remain...although I do believe that a properly set up turbo is the way to go, and Mr Turbo's reputation is hard to argue with...

 

[OB_Jamie]

C.Dolan,
Check your intake hoses after the turbo. I had a similar problem with my car. You may have a small pin hole that opens under boost or just a loose clamp. Lowering the compression will hurt spool up slightly but not that much.

As far as head porting goes this will lower your boost because the engine will pass more air. Boost is the measure of backpressure on the intake side. Once the head is ported the backpressure is less and thus so is the boost. The power levels will remain the same as with the higher psi though. Some other ideas are a bent or no clearance intake valve bleeding boost off or exhaust ports that have lost velocity due to porting.

The Garret turbo you mentioned is a T-25 VNT. This is very small and would be good on a 750.

 

[OB_cbxchris]

This may not have anything to do with your bike but on a turbo nitrious application on a dyno head porting had no effect on peak HP. The only head work was within around one inch of seat...larger exhaust valves. To some extent it held true with a heavy nitrious application...porting has little or no effect on peak HP....aqain all head work was confined to seat area. We tried this both ways on a super flow dyno...ported heads and unported. Nitrious is nothing but a liquid (gas)blower and combined with a turbo it obviously just rams the charge through the ports. Also for peak Hp and torque we ended up going with a cranking compression of 275 lbs. so much for the low comp theory here. Again all this was on a GS engine so it may not apply to your application but hope this helps. Basically this held true on kaw engines that were tested. One funny bike made 660 HP like the above mods....1991-1992. Turbo 4 stage nitrious...things with the turbos you speak of may have made this all a ancient subject. These were large ray-jay units with large s&s carbs.

 

[OB_DRAGBIKE_dot_COM]

EXCLR8

First... intercoolers are only needed in extreme applications, and even then they are questionable. The problem for streebikes is that once they gain heat, they don't cool rapidly. What this means, is that when you drive the bike down the street, stop at a signal, and allow the heat to soak in which is rising up from the exhaust and engine... the intercooler can actually hurt you. Couple that with the problem with ducting air in, and exiting it back out again, and then fitting it properly, and you make something which complicates things tremendously and ends up in extra cost!

The worlds most powerful streetbike, Terry Kizer's ZX-11, was here over the weekend as well. We planned on riding it up to the Rock Store on Sunday, but it rained. It made 494 horsepower and it does not have an intercooler on it!

The magazine hype of "gotta haves" is what makes people think they have to have an intercooler, variable vane compressor, and even ceramic impeller and housings. When it all gets down to it... we're dealing with something very basic.

Now... as far as what it all does... I challenge anybody to ride a bike around with 300 HP. I've done it, and let me tell you, there's no purpose in it. It is as stupid as all of this discussion on how much one exhaust makes over another and should or should we not modify our airboxes. What do you plan on doing?

250 HP will run about 220 MPH in true speed. What do you need more then that? Sure... you could run 300 HP with the turn of a screw... but, are you really sure you need it?

As for my bike... I'm not sure I need the 170 HP it makes right now, since I ride stoplight to stoplight. You bolt on a turbo... and what's up? The difference between 160-something stock, and 225, 250 or even 300 HP turboed, is incredible... so pick your flavor... you'll be shocked!

You can expect better then normal gas mileage in most places less then 2 PSI. Past that, your forcing in the air and fuel, and you will obviously burn more to make more power.

Chain... there's no chance any chain in the 530 style will hold up for many full hp miles, so just plan on replacing it regularly. I use a EK x-ring myself... and am very happy with it.

I hope I did not forget something... let me know if I did.

 

[OB_DRAGBIKE_dot_COM]

EXCLR8

I left something off... sorry!

Anybody with common sense and hand tools can do the install. I am actually going to make a very detailed instruction sheet for Terry, including detailed photographs. If you can follow instructions... you can do it!

Back to the intercooler thing for a minute, we'll surely have debate happening on this subject, because for those who don't know... their magazine educations will surely make them know what they are talking about, and there's surely some manufacturers out there who will tell you want to hear... but the bottom line is that why have so many turbo kits been produced by so many manufacturers... for so long, without them?

Food for thought... for now, I will be focusing on speed records with my turbo... and let you'all be doing debates on what works.

 

[OB_cbxchris]

Dragbike do you plan on any internal mods for the time being? If not now what possibly in future...rods,pistons,valve springs,valves? Appears that busa stock is capable of 15-20 lbs of boost ...what do you think?

 

[Guest]

Do you know if it will be available in Japan ?

 

[OB_c.dolan]

To Maui: Ran on street and dyno. Things done in testing: Removed air cleaner, no effect. Advanced timing 5 deg.(still 5 deg. less than stock), cleaned up on top end. Main jet: 1 size leaner. Lower comp. ratio accounted for last 2 items. Fuel ok. May check cartrage, next, for damage. ........................................ ..To TOJ: disconnected hose to boost regulator. Still did not go above 8 psi. Shimming spring wouldn't do any good, since regulator was eliminated as a possibility, when not connected in testing.

 

[OB_EXCLR8]

DRAGBIKE_dot_COM
What about these questions?
Sorry to have so many questions. I understand that some of these questions may not have answers revieled yet and that is ok. As far as the Icooler goes I just as well not have one.

2. What affect will the heat have on the plastic? It will no doubt be very close.
2A. I did notice you said a small cut had to be made. Which side?
3. I pay $3995 for the kit, what else do I have to buy?
4. How much will this shorten engine life?
5. What will this do to reliability?
last one. What boost is expected to produce 250 bhp and is that on pump gas?


I would also like to have a knob near the Handel bars to adjust the boost, if there is any need for that. Like when the wife is on the bike and I just want to take it easy. Thanks for your time. I know you are busy.

EXCLR8

 

[OB_Turbo1186]

C dolan. I have messed with many aerod. From my turbo 900 to shoot out bikes in the magazines. Take your exhaust off and look at your turbine section. I guarantee your exhaust turbine is bent!! We went round and round with aerod and they said it was our fault. It got to a point were one night we had three new aerod in the box trying each one. They made power down low but no power on top. One out of the three made power all the way through. We have also had the linkage come loose inside the compressor side. End result is no top end boost. When we would hook up the turbo and start the engine and just let it idle you could hear the turbine hitting on the inside of the turbo. Shut the bike off and sure enough the turbine blades were bent just from idling.Hope this helps you figure some things out. Just remember the aerodyne is some what fragile!

 

[OB_Turbo1186]

C dolan almost forgot! Make sure you check all tyour connections on the compressor side. Also check your exhaust for any cracks. If you loose exhaust pressure your going to lose boost. Good luck!

 

[OB_GSXRTURBO1]

If you can adjust your timing on the fly (Dyna 2000 or equivalent) hit a switch to retard timing 5-7 degrees, once turbo starts making boost let go of switch so timing goes back to normal, see if it can maintain same boost that it was making when timing was retarded. The retarded timing will put more heat in the exhaust causing a faster spool up. I hope you get to the bottom of your problem, please keep us informed...Tom G.

 

[OB_c.dolan]

To Maui: That's what my first thought was. Just not sure how to adjust. I disconnected hose to pressure sensor, so vane wouldn't feather out. It still only made 8psi. It may be at limit, already. Have to find out what angle it starts out at. Aerocharger not much help. The claim lower compression didn't cause lower boost, in their bikes. They say they haven't tried a combination of lower compression, AND head work. Also, I would have thought less heat would have had more of an effect on low end. Low end seems ok, but top end is "lazy" . I was thinking turbo was lacking airflow to keep up with head work. My Harley went from 11psi / 110 hp, with more available, to 8 psi / 87 hp. Was looking to make 15~16 psi @ 7:1 comp. Was 8.5:1, prior.

 

[OB_mbuehler]

My main concern (sorry if this was allready covered) is how the power is delivered. Do you cross 'x' number of rpm's and then get hit with a mass of accelleration, or is it more gradual? The kit sounds great, and I'm very tempted. I just don't want to ruin the streetablity of my bike.

 

[OB_Turbo1186]

Hey guys just thought I would add my two cents. I have the same turbo Terry is using on the busa on my gsx-r. Boost starts to build around 5 grand and goes from there. On the dyno my bike jumped from 100 hp to over 200 in 1000 rpms. You have to keep in mind displacement exhaust cfm and turbine section size. Looks like Terrys using a .40 turbine section. As for reliability, more power does mean more wear. As marty stated for the people that havnt ridden turbo bikes 200 hp is an eye opening experience! To give you an idea I have a 92 gsx-r 1100 with a turbo. Power wheelies in 5th gear at 110 mph. Bike makes 240 on the dyno. So for you guys that have never ridden a turbo bike and are getting the busa kit you better get ready to hold on to your shorts! Trust me its worth the money.

 

[OB_GSXRTURBO1]

Turbo1186, you may have the same turbo (Rajay FF) but is it mounted the same way? The Hayabusa has the turbo mounted just behind the front wheel with short header pipes, hence just about ZERO lag. I also have the same turbo, but mine is mounted in the spot that the carburetors used to reside at, which requires a long transitional pipe from the headers to the turbo, resulting in added "turbo lag". I get boost just under 5000 rpm, sometimes even lower depending on where my cams are set (advancing the exhaust cam and/or spreading the lobe centers helps tremendously)...ignition timing can also affect lag. The system that Mr. Turbo has should have NO lag, and with the fuel injection the HP "hit" once boost is being made should not be as dramatic. This will all make the bike more streetable...Thomas Gafa

 

[OB_DRAGBIKE_dot_COM]

EXCLR8, replies to your questions... Please keep in mind, this is the prototype... and there is simply no data for long term answers.

The plastic is close... but it does not look close enough to cause problems. In four hours of constant load running on the dyno, it showed no burning.

The small cut was made to the left side top vent, by the radiator. The stock opening was enlarged just a hair.

Terry includes everything with the kit, right down to the zip ties and connectors required. I don't think anything further will be needed.

Again, we have no long term experience with this engine... but it would appear that if you run at 200 to 250 horsepower... you will have very long term reliability... and I would expect the engine to suffer very little. This engine appears stronger then the old GSXR's, and produces more power easier!

As for the adjustment knob... you can easily control it anytime by using your right hand on the throttle. If you don't open it wide open, you'll control the boost. If you want to make real changes though, you can quickly reach the wastegate screw through the fairing opening I think... and you can install a multi stage boost control which would give you a fancy knob on your bars.

We made 240 horsepower with 6 pounds... 7 would give 250. It makes about 10-12 horsepower with each pound of boost.

I will have a full article on it this week at dragbike.com, keep your eyes open. I need to state very clearly... I do not sell this kit, and I am not an employee of Mr. Turbo... what I am is a magazine guy who got his hands on the first one while doing an article.

-Marty

 

[OB_DanaT]

Jamie,

You have made some good points. I personally drive an intercooled turbo car. It runs 18lbs(approx) of boost. It will run in any temp. But there is much more to a turbo car set-up than max boost.

Intercoolers don't help off the line, once up to speed and cooled down, they help.

But for drivabilty there are other tricks that are played. For instance my car starts bleeding boost off at 0.2 bar yet will hit 1.1 to 1.2 bars of boost (old style wastegate that aint too accurate). The reason, the factory did not want a big boost spike. The would rather "roll" the power on. Yes, they learned from previous mistakes (early 930s) and ever since have bled boost off early to avoid problems. The problems being lack of contro in turns, below professional level drivers, ect. The early 930s were never known as forgiving.

But they did use intercoolers.

-Dana