Teaching job, neck on chopping block

[Mythos]

I teach K-12 Art. This is the third year I have been at this job. We have a 7th grade class with 20 students and there are four that have serious behavior problems. There were no fights or anything like that but these guys will screw around over and over and leave on their own or get kicked out and come back in. Then there’s a couple others that are ready to go off any minute and a few more subtle troublemakers. It’s impossible to teach unless the worst behaved students are removed and they got removed a lot.

My principal came into the room several times for the entire class to get the situation under control which worked but even he kicked a kid out a least one time. Thankfully, 7th grade art ended three weeks ago and now I have the 8th graders who are a wonderful group. So I’m very grateful for the help and the input the principal gave me but now, five weeks before the end of school, I get my contract for next year and I do not have the typical $1000 pay increase. What the —???? So I ask some questions of the superintendent and I discover the principal’s observations of my class was his evaluation of my performance !!! This class is what my performance was evaluated on and now I’m on an improvement plan for next year (still don’t know what exactly that all entails) and I don’t get a raise because I was found to be in need of improvement. If I don’t improve, I may be terminated. Guess what, I have this same group of students right at the end of school next year. I’m not confident any amount of training is going to make a huge difference in managing this class’s behavior. As far as my other classes go, I don’t see that there’s a problem.

I’m wondering if the administration wants me to quit? This seems like a setup somehow. There were two teachers out of about 20 that were forced to quit at the end of my first year here. There were nine teachers that quit last year. One of the new hires this year, the HS special ed teacher, was told she had to quit or would be fired. This is her first year teaching. I can’t see that she could be that bad. I might expect that if a person misses a lot of work or if they come in with a hangover but that’s not the case. I have a hunch newer teachers that were made higher than average offers for compensation get squeezed out and that might be the real reason I’m under the gun.

WTH is going on here? How do I know something like this won’t happen again in the future? I can’t plan for the future like this. I already sent out one application but I need to get my contract in to my current job in the next couple weeks or I will have no job. Once the contract is signed, I’m stuck. Would be $5000 for breaking the contract and there could be other damages. Cool new job not so cool now. What should I do? Should I just quit at the end of this year? I think I could get a new job, maybe before the end of summer.

 

[Mythos]

and thanks for reading all that if you did. I could really use some advice.

 

[Kiwi Rider]

@Mythos ......I’m feeling ya pain brother... sounds like a crappy situation to be in, makes my line of work (bike mechanic) look like a walk in the park.
Only advice I can give is not to stress out about the future, one thing I’ve found when I’m in a work situation similar (pressure from working alongside immature young guys) and I’ve had a few similar, is to talk to the management and ask questions, in your situation let them know your concerns and ask for clarification on this “improvement plan” bs.
Hold your head high and don’t let them beat you down, even if you can’t resolve the issues, something better will come along and you will be ‘elevated’ somewhat.
Always believe in yourself and your achievements in life, it will pay dividends, guaranteed.

 

[Bumblebee]

Sounds like you aren't unionized.....I can tell you the administration doesn't push teachers around like that here...my neighbors are both teachers and we talk often...his wife was bound and determined their 3 boys would be teachers one day...now she has rescinded that ideology somewhat due to how teachers are treated even in a unionized environment. Her husband teaches HS and he says the kids are getting worse and worse and said if he had his time back, he'd have thought of another profession..

I remember as a kid, you didn't mess with teachers or you ended up in the VP's office where you were punished awaiting the punishment your parents gave you.

Are you able to talk to the principal to see what is going on? Barring that can you talk to the superintendent?

You are caught between a rock and a hard place-you need to work but work for idiots...

 

[fallenarch]

Tough situation man. My wife had the same experience. A teacher with 25 years experience and a great track record then a class with a couple of knuckleheads and all of a sudden she has observers and marks on her record for class control. She eventually moved to another school system. The whole system is jacked if you ask me and there is a lot of politics in there too. Hope things work out for you.

 

[TallTom]

I wish I could be of more help. Back in my day in school, the type behavior you described resulted in a number of licks by "the board of education" as it was called. Worked exceedingly well for problem resolution.

I hired a teacher once. She was applying for an admin position. I felt embarrassed trying to explain that her masters degree was astounding considering I couldn't offer more than $20/hr.

She said it was far more than she was making and didn't have to deal with schools that had to remove all the vending machines to stop them from being robbed repeatedly.

We finally got her into writing and administering training programs for safety etc.

It's a sad state our education system has declined to.

Bro I wish I could give you more than moral support. But sadly, it's the best I can do.

 

[HayaWakened]

Bro I wish I could give you more than moral support. But sadly, it's the best I can do.

+1
Also going through a rough stretch. Your sharing of this helps. Thanks.

 

[bigdr]

Check the clutch switch and the sidestand switch ..

Oh , .... I'd leave and look for somewhere that will appreciate you.

 

[Mathewrussell52]

Some schools are crazy. I have a guy that works for me part time that is a teacher and the stories he tells me. Says students can show up when ever to class. He has been assaulted several times and kids still have his classes. If he fails to many kids he gets in trouble. He blames no child left behind.
Tough job must by why they get summers off. Lol

 

[Hayabusa Wannabe]

How do I know something like this won’t happen again in the future? I can’t plan for the future like this.

You do not know and it could happen at the next school you go to. Planning for the future is a big moving target for many of us nowadays, sadly. Even a lifetime of extremely hard work in no way helps decent people to avoid this.

Do you embrace teaching completely today? Are you doing any reexamining of where you want to be? I know COVID and other factors have shaken up a lot of teachers. I am just making sure that we have the entire story of where you want to be.

There were two teachers out of about 20 that were forced to quit at the end of my first year here. There were nine teachers that quit last year. One of the new hires this year, the HS special ed teacher, was told she had to quit or would be fired.

This is a lot of firings. Is this municipality going out of business? Are you hearing about the budget being significantly exceeded this year? What do the parents think about what is going on? There has to be some parental rumbling about teachers changing up at this rate.

A budget disaster could cause overall problems even if this situation goes all in your favor. If there is no money, the system falls apart, and you are out of work anyway. This is why you need to have some knowledge of what is going on. A group of you should consider going down to city hall and demand as citizens to see the books. Call your local Geraldo Rivera and point this out. Do they have any interest in investigating the public budget?

Firing a brand new teacher for any reason like they did, I ask who gives up on an employee that quickly? That is clearly not a sign of the individual's work but of a completely failed system.

? Should I just quit at the end of this year? I think I could get a new job, maybe before the end of summer.

I am reading up on how school systems handle this. They can just eliminate your position and create a new position, yes? So if they want you gone they can make it happen in different ways other than these actions, right?

One thing to note is that a whole lot of people down there do not want to go through all of the official procedures. If you are of a certain personality you might just tough it out until the very last day to force them through the process. Just a thought.

You can consider going on the offensive and hirinig an employment attorney. I would expect the cost to be under $500 total for them to study the situation and generate one letter. The attorney will ask what your goal is and the answer is to secure your job for the short term. The attorney is always the best advisor but I might put the principal's and perhaps superintendent's name on it. My idea is to explicitly state that that "Under certain terms you will be holding Joe Smith, principal, personally responsible for losses, compensation, liability, etc. resulting from the aforementioned fraudulent disciplinary actions." From this, the principle will or should then fear that you may sue him personally (do not put any of your intentions here on the web.) So if his boss is asking him to get rid of you, he may push back with, "No, this guy is going to sue me!"

Regarding the fee for breaking the contract, should that happen for any reason, you have also set yourself up legally to possibly squeeze some or all of it out of somebody else.

I did some brief reading about teacher's improvement plans. It sounds like they may leave it up to you to draw up your own plan and reflection. A teacher or employee who has not done anything wrong should not be forced into a place to write down how awful they are. That is setup number two against you which I have seen before. I know you are not there yet but I will just dump my brain at this time: Any such plan should have all of the above detail listed in the header. “This plan is being written under duress considering the above circumstances/discrimination, abuse, etc. ” Keep copies or file with the EEOC and state board, etc. Develop a paper trail, the same thing they are abusively creating against you. All of this is for the situation if you decide to fight it out.

You may have some fear that this can follow you around as a “trouble maker.” I used to fear this but no longer after my experiences. When you are in the right, you are in the right and that is all there is to it.

To some of the above forum member's points, this school system does sound like a toxic wasteland. I cannot advise you to stay or go but to just consider that and your health and well-being, as well as the financials.

 

[WuzzaCBXRider]

After a few years teaching HS my daughter got tired of not only the students but their parents as well. She teaches now at a college where young adults (want) an education. She’s much happier and makes more money too.

 

[Mythos]

@Mythos ......I’m feeling ya pain brother... sounds like a crappy situation to be in, makes my line of work (bike mechanic) look like a walk in the park.
... talk to the management and ask questions, in your situation let them know your concerns and ask for clarification on this “improvement plan” bs.
Hold your head high and don’t let them beat you down, even if you can’t resolve the issues, something better will come along and you will be ‘elevated’ somewhat.
Always believe in yourself and your achievements in life, it will pay dividends, guaranteed.

Working as a bike mechanic entails a lot of pressure. If you're not feeling it, you must be a really good one. I would never be able to do it profitably.

Already talked to the superintendent. The principal responded to the email I wrote expressing my feelings. I feel I have improved exponentially each year I've worked and by the increase in enrollment in my classes and the number of students who are repeat customers, looks like next year will be another big stride forward. I feel threatened, discouraged and unwanted now. His reply was 'yes you have improved as a teacher but with that comes higher expectations.'

Sounds like you aren't unionized.....I can tell you the administration doesn't push teachers around like that here...my neighbors are both teachers and we talk often...his wife was bound and determined their 3 boys would be teachers one day...now she has rescinded that ideology somewhat due to how teachers are treated even in a unionized environment. Her husband teaches HS and he says the kids are getting worse and worse and said if he had his time back, he'd have thought of another profession..

I remember as a kid, you didn't mess with teachers or you ended up in the VP's office where you were punished awaiting the punishment your parents gave you.

Are you able to talk to the principal to see what is going on? Barring that can you talk to the superintendent?

Wisconsin's teacher union was broken several years ago. I don't even pay dues. The union doesn't have much influence anymore here in Wisconsin. Talked to the sup and the principal already and explained my position.

Tough situation man. My wife had the same experience. A teacher with 25 years experience and a great track record then a class with a couple of knuckleheads and all of a sudden she has observers and marks on her record for class control. She eventually moved to another school system. The whole system is jacked if you ask me and there is a lot of politics in there too. Hope things work out for you.

Thanks fallen. I'm afraid to buy a home here now even if the current problem ends well. I don't know when the problem might happen again. I don't have that many years I can wait to buy a home at my age.

I wish I could be of more help. Back in my day in school, the type behavior you described resulted in a number of licks by "the board of education" as it was called. Worked exceedingly well for problem resolution.

LOL there was one kid who refused to leave once and I told him I was going to come over there and remove him if he didn't go. Fortunately, he left on his own because it would have left me in a spot if he refused.

+1
Also going through a rough stretch. Your sharing of this helps. Thanks.

Thank you too, Haya. It's comforting to know I'm not the only one. We'll each find our way out of our problem.

Some schools are crazy. I have a guy that works for me part time that is a teacher and the stories he tells me. Says students can show up when ever to class. He has been assaulted several times and kids still have his classes. If he fails to many kids he gets in trouble. He blames no child left behind.
Tough job must by why they get summers off. Lol

LOL after the first year, I considered it to be the the most pleasant job I've ever had but that was because I always thought the job was secure as long as I went in and gave it my best. I feel drained at the end of the day but it has been "good" drained, not bad. Now I have anxiety. The adrenaline is sending me to the mens room twice a day to blow a dump. Not a real good situation for a teacher.

.....

Do you embrace teaching completely today? Are you doing any reexamining of where you want to be? I know COVID and other factors have shaken up a lot of teachers. I am just making sure that we have the entire story of where you want to be.

This is what I can do and want to do. I hope things haven't changed so much that I decide I was wrong. Otherwise, I'm back to commercial art which aint no picnic. High skills and usually not very high pay.

This is a lot of firings. Is this municipality going out of business? Are you hearing about the budget being significantly exceeded this year? What do the parents think about what is going on? There has to be some parental rumbling about teachers changing up at this rate.

The district asked for and was granted a large millage increase last year to cover repairs to the building. Taxes did not go down as they would have but they stayed at the previous rate. Parents may be thinking losing jobs is a normal part of life and maybe they are right. However, kids loosing stability in the relationships they have with adults is not a normal thing. I doubt many of our parents value that...however, from what I overhear in the community, people are wondering WTF teachers are being in and out the door so much about.

Firing a brand new teacher for any reason like they did, I ask who gives up on an employee that quickly? That is clearly not a sign of the individual's work but of a completely failed system.

I agree. My bosses are not stupid and they can tell a person of decent character in two minutes like I can. With the background checks and the required education, it's almost guaranteed you're hiring a person of good character. I suspect my employer may be valuing previous experience in new employees and overlooking the value of retaining teachers who have less experience but develop a strong tie to the community. Seasoned teachers are not flocking here so that is going to be a very long process for achieving excellence. Meantime, they could get value out of the decent people that do come here just by letting them stay. A lot of them would like the place. I do. Drawbacks, yes but if the job you came here for becomes the biggest drawback that's not good.

I am reading up on how school systems handle this. They can just eliminate your position and create a new position, yes? So if they want you gone they can make it happen in different ways other than these actions, right?

I'm sure they can do whatever a public sector business does. No excuses needed, they want you gone, they can just terminate you. Of course, any employer looks for a reason whether there is a solid reason or not.

After a few years teaching HS my daughter got tired of not only the students but their parents as well. She teaches now at a college where young adults (want) an education. She’s much happier and makes more money too.

I taught one college class for a semester while I was getting my DPI certification. That was a great environment compared to HS but college teaching is not without its politics either. That is a very good work if you can get it. Congrats to your daughter, Wuzza. I might look into contracted college teaching but for art, it is SO competitive. I don't have the educational credentials to qualify. The world is full of artists who want to make a living in a serious art environment without the interference of commercialism. Teaching college is about as close to that dream come true as you will find unless you can become a famous artist.

 

[Bumblebee]

Sounds like a pretty tough situation to have to be in...having no union to support you is hard, it allows the employer to do pretty much whatever they want to.

The teachers are unionized here with a strong, aggressive union so they are pretty well protected, finding jobs is another story as these teachers seem to work forever...

I've been in combat several times but I'll tell ya, I'd never want to be a teacher

 

[WuzzaCBXRider]

Working as a bike mechanic entails a lot of pressure. If you're not feeling it, you must be a really good one. I would never be able to do it profitably.

Already talked to the superintendent. The principal responded to the email I wrote expressing my feelings. I feel I have improved exponentially each year I've worked and by the increase in enrollment in my classes and the number of students who are repeat customers, looks like next year will be another big stride forward. I feel threatened, discouraged and unwanted now. His reply was 'yes you have improved as a teacher but with that comes higher expectations.'


Wisconsin's teacher union was broken several years ago. I don't even pay dues. The union doesn't have much influence anymore here in Wisconsin. Talked to the sup and the principal already and explained my position.


Thanks fallen. I'm afraid to buy a home here now even if the current problem ends well. I don't know when the problem might happen again. I don't have that many years I can wait to buy a home at my age.


LOL there was one kid who refused to leave once and I told him I was going to come over there and remove him if he didn't go. Fortunately, he left on his own because it would have left me in a spot if he refused.


Thank you too, Haya. It's comforting to know I'm not the only one. We'll each find our way out of our problem.


LOL after the first year, I considered it to be the the most pleasant job I've ever had but that was because I always thought the job was secure as long as I went in and gave it my best. I feel drained at the end of the day but it has been "good" drained, not bad. Now I have anxiety. The adrenaline is sending me to the mens room twice a day to blow a dump. Not a real good situation for a teacher.


This is what I can do and want to do. I hope things haven't changed so much that I decide I was wrong. Otherwise, I'm back to commercial art which aint no picnic. High skills and usually not very high pay.


The district asked for and was granted a large millage increase last year to cover repairs to the building. Taxes did not go down as they would have but they stayed at the previous rate. Parents may be thinking losing jobs is a normal part of life and maybe they are right. However, kids loosing stability in the relationships they have with adults is not a normal thing. I doubt many of our parents value that...however, from what I overhear in the community, people are wondering WTF teachers are being in and out the door so much about.


I agree. My bosses are not stupid and they can tell a person of decent character in two minutes like I can. With the background checks and the required education, it's almost guaranteed you're hiring a person of good character. I suspect my employer may be valuing previous experience in new employees and overlooking the value of retaining teachers who have less experience but develop a strong tie to the community. Seasoned teachers are not flocking here so that is going to be a very long process for achieving excellence. Meantime, they could get value out of the decent people that do come here just by letting them stay. A lot of them would like the place. I do. Drawbacks, yes but if the job you came here for becomes the biggest drawback that's not good.


I'm sure they can do whatever a public sector business does. No excuses needed, they want you gone, they can just terminate you. Of course, any employer looks for a reason whether there is a solid reason or not.


I taught one college class for a semester while I was getting my DPI certification. That was a great environment compared to HS but college teaching is not without its politics either. That is a very good work if you can get it. Congrats to your daughter, Wuzza. I might look into contracted college teaching but for art, it is SO competitive. I don't have the educational credentials to qualify. The world is full of artists who want to make a living in a serious art environment without the interference of commercialism. Teaching college is about as close to that dream come true as you will find unless you can become a famous artist.

After just three years she got tenured and makes enough that she doesn't qualify for the stimulus money. No layoffs either.

 

[Mythos]

Sounds like a pretty tough situation to have to be in...having no union to support you is hard, it allows the employer to do pretty much whatever they want to.

Yes, I suppose. I was never a Teachers Union supporter because if the most of the rest of our professions are surviving without unions, why not teachers? Tell you the truth, it's not a real hard job...it shouldn't be. I like kids and I accept they are going to be little buttholes sometimes. But yes, now my secure relatively pleasant job could become very demanding. If that's the case across the board, I might find something else to do that's less demanding. Most things are going to pay about the same but you have to work all year. I have a truck driver friend and he makes what I make. Not a real easy life being over the road but he can meet his employer's expectations and there's no good reason to replace him as long as he does that. I've been in a lot of schools. I don't think the turnaround in employment here is typical. I could probably do better but maybe take a pay cut. That would be worth the peace of mind.

 

[dave s]

My daughter is a teacher and she is now in her 3rd year,she also found it hard the 1st year and looked around for new jobs,my advice to you is stick with it one more year if you feel the same way then leave .You may be making more of the situation than what it is,
She loves the job now and is so glad she kept at it,the grass isn't always greener,I should know I'm a truck driver and do double the hours for the same pay

 

[ZeePopo]

I teach K-12 Art. This is the third year I have been at this job. We have a 7th grade class with 20 students and there are four that have serious behavior problems. There were no fights or anything like that but these guys will screw around over and over and leave on their own or get kicked out and come back in. Then there’s a couple others that are ready to go off any minute and a few more subtle troublemakers. It’s impossible to teach unless the worst behaved students are removed and they got removed a lot.

My principal came into the room several times for the entire class to get the situation under control which worked but even he kicked a kid out a least one time. Thankfully, 7th grade art ended three weeks ago and now I have the 8th graders who are a wonderful group. So I’m very grateful for the help and the input the principal gave me but now, five weeks before the end of school, I get my contract for next year and I do not have the typical $1000 pay increase. What the —???? So I ask some questions of the superintendent and I discover the principal’s observations of my class was his evaluation of my performance !!! This class is what my performance was evaluated on and now I’m on an improvement plan for next year (still don’t know what exactly that all entails) and I don’t get a raise because I was found to be in need of improvement. If I don’t improve, I may be terminated. Guess what, I have this same group of students right at the end of school next year. I’m not confident any amount of training is going to make a huge difference in managing this class’s behavior. As far as my other classes go, I don’t see that there’s a problem.

I’m wondering if the administration wants me to quit? This seems like a setup somehow. There were two teachers out of about 20 that were forced to quit at the end of my first year here. There were nine teachers that quit last year. One of the new hires this year, the HS special ed teacher, was told she had to quit or would be fired. This is her first year teaching. I can’t see that she could be that bad. I might expect that if a person misses a lot of work or if they come in with a hangover but that’s not the case. I have a hunch newer teachers that were made higher than average offers for compensation get squeezed out and that might be the real reason I’m under the gun.

WTH is going on here? How do I know something like this won’t happen again in the future? I can’t plan for the future like this. I already sent out one application but I need to get my contract in to my current job in the next couple weeks or I will have no job. Once the contract is signed, I’m stuck. Would be $5000 for breaking the contract and there could be other damages. Cool new job not so cool now. What should I do? Should I just quit at the end of this year? I think I could get a new job, maybe before the end of summer.

Your employer seems to prey on teacher turnover. Run as fast as you can. Sooner or later they are coming for ya. Your recommendation from your previous employer is just going to get worse as times passes. Don't let them burn ya to the ground.

 

[Mythos]

My daughter is a teacher and she is now in her 3rd year,she also found it hard the 1st year and looked around for new jobs,my advice to you is stick with it one more year if you feel the same way then leave .You may be making more of the situation than what it is,
She loves the job now and is so glad she kept at it,the grass isn't always greener,I should know I'm a truck driver and do double the hours for the same pay

Hi Dave. Yeah, the first year was stressful struggling to figure out what to teach and how to teach it. I think it's mostly just a matter of fitting in socially and that takes about 3 years to really acomplish for me and probably most others. My third year here was smooth until now and the future was set. I'm not considering leaving the teaching profession but possibly I am leaving this job for another. You're right, I may be making more of it than it is. Next week is when I will find out what exactly "it" is. I still have no idea what the improvement will program entail. To tell you the truth, I don't think my boss does either. It's up to him to clarify that right quick Monday or I think I'm telling him unofficially that I will be leaving at the end of this year. I know I'm not signing any teaching contract until I know what will be expected of me.

Your employer seems to prey on teacher turnover. Run as fast as you can. Sooner or later they are coming for ya. Your recommendation from your previous employer is just going to get worse as times passes. Don't let them burn ya to the ground.

I'm leaning in your direction Zee. I'm thinking be upfront about my intentions as early as possible. I may need time off to do an interview or two before school ends. I've never missed a day so I don't even know how to ask for it. If I need to use sick time when I'm not sick, I'd rather just say I need the day off or else come out and tell them I have an interview. Better they know I'm leaving before I disclose that. I don't think I'd be asking for any recommendations from my supervisors here but it never helps to stir the pot just incase it ever comes down to payback.

 

[HayaWakened]

...it never helps to stir the pot just incase it ever comes down to payback.

They started stirring first!

 

[Mythos]

They started stirring first!

zacly!