Suspension ? I'm an idiot !!

kennym4

Registered
My bike feels like it's REALLY diving in the front. If I push the bike, just enough to get it moving, and hit the brakes......it dives a lot. So I thought I'd tighten it up a little, and ride it, and see how it felt. I marked a socket, and turned the bolt clockwise two full turns, and was going to turn the flathead screw 3 clicks clockwise. Thinking this would tighten it up. Well the screw is pretty tight, and it didn't click at all, unless I turn it counter clockwise ? I should have just left it alone. I read Jinksters suspension thread from a while ago, and I guess I didn't understand it as well as I thought, LoL

ANY help would GREATLY be appreciated !!

:stoopid: :banghead::banghead:
 

micbusathens

Registered
Seems your rebound adjusting screws were at the highest setting .Try to loosen them by turning them counter clockwise.For reference read owners manual for initial settings.For less diving I would suggest ...one click clockwise from the the OEM settings for both compression and rebound adjusters...and a full turn of spring preloader
 

Jza

Registered
Not sure what bike you have - these setting are for a Gen 2?

If you are riding with full rebound damping on the front.. try the following as its gonna be a better starting point than what you have at the moment!

Turn the rebound/compression all the way clockwise till it wont go any further.. (max stiff).. then click BACK counterclockwise the number of clicks mentioned below. Same for front and rear. Preload on the top of the forks and you need a socket to wind them up or down. Full stiff on preload is ALL THE WAY IN (no rings showing)...

As Tuffbusa will no doubt say, these aren't set for your weight or riding style but get the preload sag correct first and they cant be a million miles off (certainly better than full rebound :-))

Suggested Suspension Settings
Front: Spring preload — 6 turns out from full stiff; rebound damping — 6 clicks out from full stiff; compression damping — 7 clicks out from full stiff

Rear: Spring preload — 10mm thread showing; rebound damping — 7 clicks out from full stiff; compression damping — 7 clicks out from full stiff

Read more: 2012 Kawasaki ZX-14R vs Suzuki Hayabusa - Sport Rider Magazine

Jza
 

kennym4

Registered
Not sure what bike you have - these setting are for a Gen 2?

If you are riding with full rebound damping on the front.. try the following as its gonna be a better starting point than what you have at the moment!

Turn the rebound/compression all the way clockwise till it wont go any further.. (max stiff).. then click BACK counterclockwise the number of clicks mentioned below. Same for front and rear. Preload on the top of the forks and you need a socket to wind them up or down. Full stiff on preload is ALL THE WAY IN (no rings showing)...



As Tuffbusa will no doubt say, these aren't set for your weight or riding style but get the preload sag correct first and they cant be a million miles off (certainly better than full rebound :-))

Suggested Suspension Settings
Front: Spring preload — 6 turns out from full stiff; rebound damping — 6 clicks out from full stiff; compression damping — 7 clicks out from full stiff

Rear: Spring preload — 10mm thread showing; rebound damping — 7 clicks out from full stiff; compression damping — 7 clicks out from full stiff

Read more: 2012 Kawasaki ZX-14R vs Suzuki Hayabusa - Sport Rider Magazine

Jza

It's an 06. Do these numbers still apply ? I'm also 204 lbs. ??
 

sixpack577

Top Gun
Registered
It's an 06. Do these numbers still apply ? I'm also 204 lbs. ??

Those numbers are guesstimates, they may or may not make the bike ride better.
Being over 200lbs on a gen1 is maxing out the stock fork springs abilities, but you'll still be able to get a decent ride out of it.
Especially since you say you usually just cruise around.
Are there any members near you, or within reasonable riding distance? Or a reputable shop?
Suspension sag is easy, at least for a street ridden bike(track riders will likely spend a lot more time getting it just right). YOU need to be sitting on it anyway, or at least someone your weight.
If you're having problems with Jinkster's thread you just need someone to show you in person, then you'll get it.
If you were close to me we'd have it good in no time, hopefully someone near you can help.

TufBusa takes a lot of flack here, but he's really a great guy.
I had done sag setup before, but it wasn't until he called and explained it to me in a way that I could understand that it actually clicked in my head. I'm no Dave Moss or track star, but now I can get a good setup on any sportbike that I've tried(assuming spring rate vs rider weight was correct).
Pm him, I'll bet you he'll call and walk you through it and make you understand what you need to do.:beerchug:
 

Schism

Donating Member
Registered
i have a set of suspension videos that i bought from TufBusa a few years ago that worked out well for me. if i can figure out how to copy the damn things i would ship you a copy. not too savvy with the computer
 

PACIFICBUSA

The Shaver Immortal
Donating Member
Registered
Those numbers are guesstimates, they may or may not make the bike ride better.
Being over 200lbs on a gen1 is maxing out the stock fork springs abilities, but you'll still be able to get a decent ride out of it.
Especially since you say you usually just cruise around.
Are there any members near you, or within reasonable riding distance? Or a reputable shop?
Suspension sag is easy, at least for a street ridden bike(track riders will likely spend a lot more time getting it just right). YOU need to be sitting on it anyway, or at least someone your weight.
If you're having problems with Jinkster's thread you just need someone to show you in person, then you'll get it.
If you were close to me we'd have it good in no time, hopefully someone near you can help.

TufBusa takes a lot of flack here, but he's really a great guy.
I had done sag setup before, but it wasn't until he called and explained it to me in a way that I could understand that it actually clicked in my head. I'm no Dave Moss or track star, but now I can get a good setup on any sportbike that I've tried(assuming spring rate vs rider weight was correct).
Pm him, I'll bet you he'll call and walk you through it and make you understand what you need to do.:beerchug:

I'll beg to differ on this one. ;) I was 265-275 on my Gen I and it rode fine. Very smooth, actually...not a lot of sag and not a lot of dive in the front. :thumbsup:

I currently on my second Gen I (a 2000) and I'm even heavier now. ??? The ride isn't the smoothest, but that's only because it's been tuned differently. The rear is raised, so I've made the front stiffer to accomodate load.

Still floats like a butterfly and stings like a bee. :D

Put your settings on both front and rear back to stock as per the manual and adjust tightness in increments and you should be fine. For whatever it's worth, I never touched to rebound settings. I only screwed around with the stiffness. :)
 

kennym4

Registered
Those numbers are guesstimates, they may or may not make the bike ride better.
Being over 200lbs on a gen1 is maxing out the stock fork springs abilities, but you'll still be able to get a decent ride out of it.
Especially since you say you usually just cruise around.
Are there any members near you, or within reasonable riding distance? Or a reputable shop?
Suspension sag is easy, at least for a street ridden bike(track riders will likely spend a lot more time getting it just right). YOU need to be sitting on it anyway, or at least someone your weight.
If you're having problems with Jinkster's thread you just need someone to show you in person, then you'll get it.
If you were close to me we'd have it good in no time, hopefully someone near you can help.

TufBusa takes a lot of flack here, but he's really a great guy.
I had done sag setup before, but it wasn't until he called and explained it to me in a way that I could understand that it actually clicked in my head. I'm no Dave Moss or track star, but now I can get a good setup on any sportbike that I've tried(assuming spring rate vs rider weight was correct).
Pm him, I'll bet you he'll call and walk you through it and make you understand what you need to do.:beerchug:

Jinksters thread finally sunk in (AFTER watching a few videos). I have to put in new fork seals, so I'm thinking might as well get new springs while I'm in there ?

When I went to losen the locking collar on the back shock everything started to turn.....both collars & the spring ?

Tuffbusa is one of my favorite people on here, he's already helped me so much! God knows I must have asked him a million questions on here. Even though he spends WAYYYY too much time on the track to ever know how to ride on the street ! :laugh:
 

Tufbusa

Track Coach / TufPoodle Coach
Registered
Kenny "You ornery dog" where the hell have you been. Did your Missus ground you for a while and take away your org privileges? :laugh:

You can't stiffen the spring by adding preload. Look at "Preload" adjustment as a means of setting your sag or ride height adjustment. There are two ways to slow fork dive without increasing the spring capacity. One is by adding a few clicks of compression (The screw adjustment on the bottom of the fork leg) damping. The screw on top of the fork is rebound which controls the fork spring once the spring has been compressed and does nothing to assist the spring as it's being compressed. Second is to add an ounce (About a table spoon full) of suspension fluid to each fork leg. This reduces the volume of air inside the fork tube. The less air you have to compress throughout the fork travel the more resistance you'll have. This mechanism acts like a progressive overload spring. Don't decide that if an ounce is better then two ounces will be great. If you go over an ounce of additional oil you can have problems with high internal pressures overloading the seals.

If your sag is set somewhere between 35 & 45mm and you are bottoming the forks out on the brakes, then I'd add a couple of turns to the preload. Adding preload will give you a little more fork travel at the end of the stroke.

If my memory serves me right you have 8.5 fork springs. You could replace them with 9.5 or 1.0 and probably be quite happy with the beast if you don't mind giving up a bit of your cushy ride. Keep in mind, stiffer springs means quicker steering but less forgiving.

I'm signed up for a Dave Moss suspension seminar on Saturday. Whatever I learn there I'll be happy to share. I do have a few questions for the Brit and my guess is he will have some straight answers!

If you'd like some help to improve your setup, drop me a note some time and we'll chat about it! Good to see you back in action! :cheerleader:
 

kennym4

Registered
Kenny "You ornery dog" where the hell have you been. Did your Missus ground you for a while and take away your org privileges? :laugh:

You can't stiffen the spring by adding preload. Look at "Preload" adjustment as a means of setting your sag or ride height adjustment. There are two ways to slow fork dive without increasing the spring capacity. One is by adding a few clicks of compression (The screw adjustment on the bottom of the fork leg) damping. The screw on top of the fork is rebound which controls the fork spring once the spring has been compressed and does nothing to assist the spring as it's being compressed. Second is to add an ounce (About a table spoon full) of suspension fluid to each fork leg. This reduces the volume of air inside the fork tube. The less air you have to compress throughout the fork travel the more resistance you'll have. This mechanism acts like a progressive overload spring. Don't decide that if an ounce is better then two ounces will be great. If you go over an ounce of additional oil you can have problems with high internal pressures overloading the seals.

If your sag is set somewhere between 35 & 45mm and you are bottoming the forks out on the brakes, then I'd add a couple of turns to the preload. Adding preload will give you a little more fork travel at the end of the stroke.

If my memory serves me right you have 8.5 fork springs. You could replace them with 9.5 or 1.0 and probably be quite happy with the beast if you don't mind giving up a bit of your cushy ride. Keep in mind, stiffer springs means quicker steering but less forgiving.

I'm signed up for a Dave Moss suspension seminar on Saturday. Whatever I learn there I'll be happy to share. I do have a few questions for the Brit and my guess is he will have some straight answers!

If you'd like some help to improve your setup, drop me a note some time and we'll chat about it! Good to see you back in action! :cheerleader:


Don't you worry Tuff, I will ! :laugh:

I was just watching another video about suspension, and he was saying that the stiffer it is, the less grip you have. Well, that's how I understood it anyway....am I right ? Don't know if I like the idea of losing traction ? I went for a short ride last night, and it feels like it dips into corners faster, it also feels like every movement is exaggerated ? Maybe I should have left it alone ? I need to remember that this thing stock is probably (well, not probably....it is) WAYYYY more capable of anything I can throw at it !
 

kennym4

Registered
I found a web page with stock settings, soft settings, and hard settings.

they say -6......-4 my question is when they say -4 do they mean from full tight ?
 

Tufbusa

Track Coach / TufPoodle Coach
Registered
I found a web page with stock settings, soft settings, and hard settings.

they say -6......-4 my question is when they say -4 do they mean from full tight ?

Correct! on a Suzuki where you have clicks it's referenced as "6 clicks out" meaning from the valve being fully closed. Be cautious when turning the adjuster all the way in that you don't over do it when the valve hits bottom. You can damage the valve needle and or seat. Turn the screw driver with the ends of your fingers and you'll never have an issue.

Even though your bike is most likely a bit better on two wheels than you are, it certainly don't hurt to set the suspension up to give you a better ride and more confidence in the saddle. Suspension is a balancing act on the street and most tracks as well. Too stiff and it rides rough and actually does reduce traction on un-even pavement. The plus side is giving you that wonderful feeling of diving into the corners with authority. While a softer suspension will be much more forgiving, especially on rough roads when leaned over. The stiffer suspension may not allow the tire to follow the pavement when it becomes un-even. So, our goal should be to find a happy medium so the bike works pretty well under all circumstances.

One other pointer is: If your suspension is properly sprung and valved your valves will be set near the middle of the adjustment range. Not insinuating your suspension won't work fairly well with the compression/rebound 2 clicks out, just saying that's not the optimum goal.
 

kennym4

Registered
Correct! on a Suzuki where you have clicks it's referenced as "6 clicks out" meaning from the valve being fully closed. Be cautious when turning the adjuster all the way in that you don't over do it when the valve hits bottom. You can damage the valve needle and or seat. Turn the screw driver with the ends of your fingers and you'll never have an issue.

Even though your bike is most likely a bit better on two wheels than you are, it certainly don't hurt to set the suspension up to give you a better ride and more confidence in the saddle. Suspension is a balancing act on the street and most tracks as well. Too stiff and it rides rough and actually does reduce traction on un-even pavement. The plus side is giving you that wonderful feeling of diving into the corners with authority. While a softer suspension will be much more forgiving, especially on rough roads when leaned over. The stiffer suspension may not allow the tire to follow the pavement when it becomes un-even. So, our goal should be to find a happy medium so the bike works pretty well under all circumstances.

One other pointer is: If your suspension is properly sprung and valved your valves will be set near the middle of the adjustment range. Not insinuating your suspension won't work fairly well with the compression/rebound 2 clicks out, just saying that's not the optimum goal.

The more I learn, the more I learn I don't know JACK BONE !!!
 

skydivr

Jumps from perfectly good Airplanes
Donating Member
Tuf, I expect a FULL REPORT when you are done with Dave's School (and a pic too) :)

If there is a chance, let him play with your Gixxer, see what he thinks of the setttings you are using now, and if he changes them, tell me what the new settings are......
 

StrtRac3r

Registered
I'm signed up for a Dave Moss suspension seminar on Saturday. Whatever I learn there I'll be happy to share. I do have a few questions for the Brit and my guess is he will have some straight answers!

If you'd like some help to improve your setup, drop me a note some time and we'll chat about it! Good to see you back in action! :cheerleader:

A couple months ago Dave moss was doing people suspension at bike night for 40 bucks. And teaching a thing or two to the owners about their bikes. Cool guy.
 

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