I was reading somewhere (either a mag or on the net?) that while conducting top speed testing with the use of a radar gun that they had a hard time getting a return because of the angles of the fairing. Is this really true? Or is it some bullsh_t rumor floating around? Just thought that it would be kind of cool to own a bulletproof stealth fighter for under the the price of a 996 DUC (new busa + carbon kevlar panels). Just kidding! They said that they had to "gun" it from the back as it was leaving them to get a return.
STEALTH?!
- Thread starter OB_DEWEY4
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OB_BUSA00021
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I read the same thing,but don't recall the name of the publication.It's possible,but that is the only report of it.This bike has probably been radared more than any other.No other publication has mentioned that characteristic.It would be nice though.We need to get Kirk to have one of his co-workers "illuminate" his bike on some runs and see if this can be verified.
B21
B21
OB_Rocket Man
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I want some of that radar and lazer absorbing plastic skins for my bike. Where can I buy them????? Good idea for a new product!! I think it would be outlawed for sure though!
OB_Fast_Eddie
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Well, judging from the ticket I just paid, I'd say that the report (read: rumour) is unsubstantiated. 
I knew a guy who's dad was making bras for cars that he swore was made of a radar absorbent material. I don't remember the price on them but it was very expensive. As to the reality of this product, I'm not sure. I've never witnessed a testing of the product, but it seems to me that if you have enough money then you can probably get ahold of the right material. On the thought that Suzuki could build a $10K bike that has the same properties as a multi-billion dollar stealth fighter, I wouldn't totally rule it out. I'm in the military and have seen some of the stupidity with government spending! One example, I used to be on a $1 billion submarine which at least a 1/4 must have been spent on electronics($250M) and if put in one room would probably take up a 40X60ft space or more. Good old 1970's technology, it is widely know in the submarine community that it is possible to run the entire boat off just one laptop with today's technology. You have to remember that anything that's rolling, floating, or flying today was contracted back in the '80s and therefore is most likely '80s technology at the newest.
OB_Rocket Man
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I have a friend that is a trooper. And I have zipped by cops with laser. My friend said it can be done but they have aim the gun like a gun. Right on target or no reading. When I zoomed by the lazer cop he could not pick me up, he looked down at his equipment and started bangging on it and tried again, with no luck. I also heard that they can only get us from behind, mostly because a bike is a small target and mostly all aluminum.
OB_DangerMouse
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Performance Bkes (UK) had to do the Busa from behind (oo er matron) as they had hassle getting a reading.
Also near us is a unmaned photo radar trap (Gatso) which can be triggered from the wrong (ie oncoming) lane. my bros ZX9 fires it every time my Busa about 1 in 3.
[This message has been edited by DangerMouse (edited 02 August 2000).]
Also near us is a unmaned photo radar trap (Gatso) which can be triggered from the wrong (ie oncoming) lane. my bros ZX9 fires it every time my Busa about 1 in 3.
[This message has been edited by DangerMouse (edited 02 August 2000).]
OB_Cisco San Jose
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Got zap by the Sunnyvale motorcycle cop doing 60 in a 45mph zone,but I guess his gun didn't pick me up because when I went pass his hiding place he still had the radar gun in his hand and aiming it at cars. Also got hit by a Santa Clara car unit on Montegue Expressway same results doing 65-70 mph in a 50 mph zone. Real world results.
G
Guest
Tangram, just curious, but the military that spent $10000000000 on stealth your talking about the same one that paid a couple thousand for a new seat for their toilet? Just asking!
OB_Fast_Eddie
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Real world results?? 
I am giving you real world results. The 'Busa is a radar-able as any other bike, you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
I have a recent ticket to prove it, I was alone no one else around. On top of that, I had my Uncle (a cop) radar me as well and he had absolutley no problem, and he didn't have to be outside aiming the gun at me either.
Not sure about laser though, I do however have a state trooper in the family and I'll get him to do the same thing my uncle did for me. I'll post the results.
As far as aluminum goes, it doesn't make a difference, the laser radars work on light refraction/reflection making it back to the laser gun. It's more of a small target thing than material thing.
[This message has been edited by Fast_Eddie (edited 02 August 2000).]
I am giving you real world results. The 'Busa is a radar-able as any other bike, you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
I have a recent ticket to prove it, I was alone no one else around. On top of that, I had my Uncle (a cop) radar me as well and he had absolutley no problem, and he didn't have to be outside aiming the gun at me either.
Not sure about laser though, I do however have a state trooper in the family and I'll get him to do the same thing my uncle did for me. I'll post the results.
As far as aluminum goes, it doesn't make a difference, the laser radars work on light refraction/reflection making it back to the laser gun. It's more of a small target thing than material thing.
[This message has been edited by Fast_Eddie (edited 02 August 2000).]
OB_BUSA00021
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Actually, a passive system can produce a speed measurement.Doppler principles apply to sound emitted by the target object.Frequency shifts can be used to determine speed and bearing of the target by a passive system.(Ex Navy GMT who stood many sonar watches)Granted that such a system would not be very useful or compact enough for police use.I'm just splitting hairs.
B21
B21
OB_Rocket Man
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I would be interested on the results of your laser test!
I'm not saying a motorcycle is not detectable, just a little harder to detect. I think the person using the detection device must have experiance with it and good aim.
One of my cop friends says he has tried with laser and has been unable to pick up bikes. Here in CT, most troopers have laser detectors because it is more effective on cars and if you have a detector in your vehicle, buy the time it goes off, the cop got you already.
I'm not saying a motorcycle is not detectable, just a little harder to detect. I think the person using the detection device must have experiance with it and good aim.
One of my cop friends says he has tried with laser and has been unable to pick up bikes. Here in CT, most troopers have laser detectors because it is more effective on cars and if you have a detector in your vehicle, buy the time it goes off, the cop got you already.
I HAD THE MISFORTUNE TO HAVE A LAZER GUN PONTED AT MY HAYABUSA LATE ONE NIGHT WHILST WAY OVER THE LIMIT I HIT THE BRAKES MEGA HARD AND COASTED PAST THE POLICE AND DID NOT GET PULLED MY GUESS IS THAT THE BUSA HAS A VERY SMALL FRONTAL AREA WITH THE LARGEST AREA BEING TAKEN UP BY HEADLAMP AND I GUESS WITH ITS GLOWING WHITE HOT HALOGEN BULB NOT MUCH INFRA RED IS BEING REFLECTED BACK IF THEY AIM AT THE LIGHT.
SO IN A WAY YES THE BUSA IS STEALTHY FROM LAZER AT ANY RATE.
[This message has been edited by bruce (edited 02 August 2000).]
SO IN A WAY YES THE BUSA IS STEALTHY FROM LAZER AT ANY RATE.
[This message has been edited by bruce (edited 02 August 2000).]
OB_Rocket Man
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Good Point, I wonder if your are on high beam head light if that does anything to the lasor shot? I do construction and we use lasors to mark straight lines and make walls plumb and level, when in the bright light or sunshine, it is hard to read the lazer beam.
OB_Tangram
Registered
Stealth technology uses four techniques to hide a target. First one is obvious. Camouflage; make the target black then run at night. Secondly, diffuse the heat signature of the target so no passive infrared seeking systems can 'see' it. You can't measure speed with these passive systems very accurately though, which is why plod doesn't use them. You need to use an active system (transmits a signal, look for reflection) to determine the speed of a target accurately.
In order for a radar or laser based system to clock the target it needs to be able to get a reflection from the target. The difference between the frequencies of the outgoing signal compared to the reflected signal is compared. Doppler-Shift will alter the frequency of the returned signal, which will increase if the target is heading towards the source or decrease if heading away from it. The amount of change can be measured and the speed of the target accurately calculated.
The three ways of avoiding active systems are absorption, deflection or disruption. The signal from the source is absorbed by the skin of the target, deflected so the reflected signal does not return to the signal source or disrupted by a not too dissimilar signal so that the receiver can’t interpret the reflection. A combination of all three is obviously optimal.
The US military has spent hundreds of billions of dollars to develop aircraft and ships that can foil various tracking systems. Each individual craft costs billions to manufacture and maintain using the latest in ceramic, carbon-fibre, Kevlar and alloy compounds, not to mention the state-of-the-art electronic warfare packages employed to confuse the complex and intelligent radar tracking systems that are used by the worlds armed forces today.
And Suzuki has employed this technology to make the world’s first stealth-motorcycle! STEALTH MY ARSE!
[This message has been edited by Tangram (edited 02 August 2000).]
In order for a radar or laser based system to clock the target it needs to be able to get a reflection from the target. The difference between the frequencies of the outgoing signal compared to the reflected signal is compared. Doppler-Shift will alter the frequency of the returned signal, which will increase if the target is heading towards the source or decrease if heading away from it. The amount of change can be measured and the speed of the target accurately calculated.
The three ways of avoiding active systems are absorption, deflection or disruption. The signal from the source is absorbed by the skin of the target, deflected so the reflected signal does not return to the signal source or disrupted by a not too dissimilar signal so that the receiver can’t interpret the reflection. A combination of all three is obviously optimal.
The US military has spent hundreds of billions of dollars to develop aircraft and ships that can foil various tracking systems. Each individual craft costs billions to manufacture and maintain using the latest in ceramic, carbon-fibre, Kevlar and alloy compounds, not to mention the state-of-the-art electronic warfare packages employed to confuse the complex and intelligent radar tracking systems that are used by the worlds armed forces today.
And Suzuki has employed this technology to make the world’s first stealth-motorcycle! STEALTH MY ARSE!
[This message has been edited by Tangram (edited 02 August 2000).]
TANGRAM! Can you try to be a little more serious next time you reply! Damn, just trying to have a little fun here and maybe get some stories on people's experiences first hand with radar and laser guns. None of the people are saying their bikes are invisible, just that maybe the bikes characteristics make it a little harder to pick up on radar or laser. You don't think that maybe by accident the engineers made a bike that is a little stealthy with its extreme angles. Hey, but thanks for the "stealth technologies" briefing!
OB_Tangram
Registered
Yeah, I suppose it could be true..... The might of the US military spend $10000000000 dollars to achieve stealth and Suzuki do it with a bit of bubbly plastic.
Sorry DEWEY4, just couldn't resist it
Sorry DEWEY4, just couldn't resist it
G
Guest
The Busa's invulnerability to radar is a myth that has been around since shortly after its initial production. Perhaps at very very [150+] high speeds it is difficult to achieve a proper speed [due to the bike passing through the width of the beam very quickly] but I've been cited more than once due to radar.
We recently had one of the speed reading mobile billboards set up by cops in my town and I decided to to a little testing. I made 4 passes past the K band radar readout board on my Busa.
Firstly - my yellow box speedo modification is calibrated perfectly.
Secondly - It's not a problem to get a reading on a Busa - even from a decent distance.
Thirdly - If there is another vehicle [cage] anywhere near the Busa on the road going the same direction the reflection from the large vehicle will OVERRIDE the small signature of the Busa. Even a pickup 1/4 mile BEHIND me overrode my speed on the radar readout.
Fourth - V1 detected the constant K band board from over 1 mile away!
If you are alone - you are vulnerable.
Believe me - I wish the Busa was invisible to radar - there are tons of K band traps in my area.
[This message has been edited by Todd (edited 02 August 2000).]
We recently had one of the speed reading mobile billboards set up by cops in my town and I decided to to a little testing. I made 4 passes past the K band radar readout board on my Busa.
Firstly - my yellow box speedo modification is calibrated perfectly.
Secondly - It's not a problem to get a reading on a Busa - even from a decent distance.
Thirdly - If there is another vehicle [cage] anywhere near the Busa on the road going the same direction the reflection from the large vehicle will OVERRIDE the small signature of the Busa. Even a pickup 1/4 mile BEHIND me overrode my speed on the radar readout.
Fourth - V1 detected the constant K band board from over 1 mile away!
If you are alone - you are vulnerable.
Believe me - I wish the Busa was invisible to radar - there are tons of K band traps in my area.
[This message has been edited by Todd (edited 02 August 2000).]
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