Since 1999 A Busa codes to c31 6Fixed
- Thread starter 2busa
- Start date
cougar694u
Registered
So, how can you know 'fix to 6' was in play and the ECU wasn't fooled? There was nothing indicating a trouble code. If there was no trouble code thrown on Don's dash, how can you say he was in 'fix to 6'. There is no gear indicator on a busa, only the FI light to indicate a trouble code. You have no knowledge of what the ECU was actually doing, since you were not there monitoring anything.
You say there's no fooling the ECU, but there is, which I've explained before. Why are you not figuring this out? You're overlooking the obvious by over-analyzing the issue.
If the ECU sees a specific resistance consistent with a specific gear, it cannot tell the difference. If it cannot tell the difference, it is fooled into thinking it's in a specific gear.
If there's no trouble code, there's no C31, am I correct in my thinking?
According to the FSM, whenever trouble code C31 is displayed (or triggered) 'fix to 6' is then invoked, and no other time.
Personally, I think you don't know for sure, but are afraid of being proven wrong. You don't know the busa, and only know what you read in the FSM. Your video portrayed each wire doing something different, which was completely false. This is indicative of your ignorance in the functionality of the busa in reference to it's GPS and ECU. I'm not saying you're stupid, I'm not making fun of you, ignorance is just the lack of knowledge, which you've displayed in this thread and in your video.
You say there's no fooling the ECU, but there is, which I've explained before. Why are you not figuring this out? You're overlooking the obvious by over-analyzing the issue.
If the ECU sees a specific resistance consistent with a specific gear, it cannot tell the difference. If it cannot tell the difference, it is fooled into thinking it's in a specific gear.
If there's no trouble code, there's no C31, am I correct in my thinking?
According to the FSM, whenever trouble code C31 is displayed (or triggered) 'fix to 6' is then invoked, and no other time.
Personally, I think you don't know for sure, but are afraid of being proven wrong. You don't know the busa, and only know what you read in the FSM. Your video portrayed each wire doing something different, which was completely false. This is indicative of your ignorance in the functionality of the busa in reference to it's GPS and ECU. I'm not saying you're stupid, I'm not making fun of you, ignorance is just the lack of knowledge, which you've displayed in this thread and in your video.
2Busa, its not as simple as you think to feel the difference of a 6th gear lock and not. Its not like your adding any substantial hp or something.
What you should ask is:
Does the Busa rev beyond 10,200 in 6th gear? My answer: Yes. (so its not in normal 6th gear).
Can the Busa now exceed 186mph as registered on a GPS (as in the navigation type)? My answer: Yes, so the ECM does not see the busa being in normal 6th gear).
Is there a difference in AFR b/w gears? My answer: Yes, as registered on wideband, there is a difference in the WOT AFR b/w the gears (so we know the ECM is not locking in 6th gear, or else the AFR would be the same in all gears at the same rpm/load, but it wasn't).
Can the dealer scan the Busa and find the C31 trouble code? My answer: No, and it cost me $20 to find out, so wont be doing that anymore (so we know the GPS is functional, and is not sending "out of range" signals to the ECM, again meaning no 6thFX).
That should be more than elaborate enough for you to look over. Sorry it took so long, I was out flying a $750,000 remote control plane for Uncle Sam.
What you should ask is:
Does the Busa rev beyond 10,200 in 6th gear? My answer: Yes. (so its not in normal 6th gear).
Can the Busa now exceed 186mph as registered on a GPS (as in the navigation type)? My answer: Yes, so the ECM does not see the busa being in normal 6th gear).
Is there a difference in AFR b/w gears? My answer: Yes, as registered on wideband, there is a difference in the WOT AFR b/w the gears (so we know the ECM is not locking in 6th gear, or else the AFR would be the same in all gears at the same rpm/load, but it wasn't).
Can the dealer scan the Busa and find the C31 trouble code? My answer: No, and it cost me $20 to find out, so wont be doing that anymore (so we know the GPS is functional, and is not sending "out of range" signals to the ECM, again meaning no 6thFX).
That should be more than elaborate enough for you to look over. Sorry it took so long, I was out flying a $750,000 remote control plane for Uncle Sam.
Coug: "If there's no trouble code, there's no C31, am I correct in my thinking?" Watch this. When you trigger the GPS's (6) in a 13.5, the sbuthrottles rise. There is no code set. What is set, is the abstract for the subthrottle code. Because there was no code thrown on the dash, or where you could bring it up on the computer as a code, nevertheless, the abstract of the 6Fx is in play as it brings the subs locking as well as the floodgates of the Busa's GPS generic collection, (i.e., the industry STD).
For the CAT's, Quote:
"That should be more than elaborate enough for you to look over." CAT, you have no idea how you simply walked into the same wall. The 6 is set whether you believe me or not. You triggered the c31 in the abstract, because no matter how you slice it, I don't care if you see the code or not, a 6 dash lock is the same representation, if not the same results without a code. Think about it. It makes more sense than all your resistance readings and wire groundings.
There is no other code for the GPS. What is collected is not coded either, (ever think of that?). I thought of that when the 13.5 is set in the dash (6). The Subs rise, but the ECU set no code, but the GPS does set a code for the 6 locked. There are no other FI codes flashing. I don't have the answers. What I do know is the idea you can choose a 5th anything, when the performance change is triggered by the GPS mod. We are using the 6 = PERIOD. What the 6 brings along is what you already know.
For the CAT's, Quote:
"That should be more than elaborate enough for you to look over." CAT, you have no idea how you simply walked into the same wall. The 6 is set whether you believe me or not. You triggered the c31 in the abstract, because no matter how you slice it, I don't care if you see the code or not, a 6 dash lock is the same representation, if not the same results without a code. Think about it. It makes more sense than all your resistance readings and wire groundings.
There is no other code for the GPS. What is collected is not coded either, (ever think of that?). I thought of that when the 13.5 is set in the dash (6). The Subs rise, but the ECU set no code, but the GPS does set a code for the 6 locked. There are no other FI codes flashing. I don't have the answers. What I do know is the idea you can choose a 5th anything, when the performance change is triggered by the GPS mod. We are using the 6 = PERIOD. What the 6 brings along is what you already know.
cougar694u
Registered
I'm sorry dude, but saying 'because it works like this on a Kawasaki it must work like this on a Suzuki' is wrong.
They're two completely different machines and do not function the same way.
Maybe I should install a large MAF on a 95-99 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS/GS because the GS-T/GSX sure do benefit from it. What do you think 2busa?
If the fix to 6 was triggered, wouldn't A/F ratios be the same? As far as the resistance readings and wire groundings, this is how the GPS works, it grounds 3 different wires under different conditions, one of which through different resistance readings. That's how it functions, plain and simple, and makes more sense than a 'fix to 6' fail safe being triggered without a C31 code.
Cougar , You have no chip, no e-proms to change in the motorcycle field. Do not bring the auto adjustibility to the motorcycle computer table. There are only 2 instructions the ECM understands- Analog is one. If the analog single fails, the computer switches to backup = Click/Click. Those are the 2 moves (analog to digital) of the motorcycle computer as we know it today.
The ECM recognizes this value ping = .001V. Now, the ECM is going to read your 15ohm value and send you to f-safe 6FX'd.
Ask CAT if his trick GPS mod is within .001 to .002v before the computer dumps the GPS 'modded' signal to 6fx. Those are the numbers you are working with. Count the voltage in thousandths of a volt. Precision, digital signals, Gentlemen. How close "in thousands" is that resistance to the 5th mod?
HELLO 6FX'D!!
The ECM recognizes this value ping = .001V. Now, the ECM is going to read your 15ohm value and send you to f-safe 6FX'd.
Ask CAT if his trick GPS mod is within .001 to .002v before the computer dumps the GPS 'modded' signal to 6fx. Those are the numbers you are working with. Count the voltage in thousandths of a volt. Precision, digital signals, Gentlemen. How close "in thousands" is that resistance to the 5th mod?
HELLO 6FX'D!!
cougar694u
Registered
WTF are you talking about a chip or EEPROM for? The MAF is a Mass Air Flow sensor and measures the amount of air entering the intake tube. It works similar to a MAP sensor (some vehicles use one and some use both).
My point of that exercise was this:
The 95-99 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS/GS doesn't even use the MAF sensor, but the same year GS-T/GSX does, in fact have a MAF sensor. They are not only from the same manufacturer, but are even on the same model line; however, nothing (power & drive train wise) is the same on them. Motor, transmission, computer, wiring, etc, it's all different. And here you are comparing two completely different manufacturers.
I never said I was going to use a 15k Ohm resistor. You, 2busa, brought in the 15K ohm resistor thing when you posted the diagram of the TRE/switchable TRE of a TLR/S
I did, however, say I would use 6.79K Ohms, which is the EXACT measurement of the resistance through the 5th gear land.
Cool, you found that the ECU can read up to 0.001v (but where, was it in the FSM, that's a very high resolution). What you failed to notice is that the difference between 15K Ohms and 14.97K Ohms (actual 6th measurement) on +5.14vdc (also measured on the bike) is less than a quarter of a percent. That is something like 0.00022v difference. The ECU can't distinguish that high resolution, you said it yourself.
The ECU cannot look for an exact voltage, at least not the the thousandth of a volt. Do you know why? There are other variables involved that add extra resistance. The rod in the transmission may not make 100% contact 100% of the time. I also know this from testing my own bike and getting different readings. I went from 1 to 6 and measured every gear, then went form 6 to 1 measuring every gear. Not once was I greeted with the exact same resistance.
The ECU looks for a window because the engineers know that it's not possible to say it's going to be x voltage for x gear every single time. Again, general rule of thumb in electronics is 5% (I know his because I originally studied EE in college), so that gives a +/- window. For instance first gear would be something like 560 ohms, +/- 28 Ohms, 5th would be 6.451K Ohms to 7.13K Ohms.
cougar694u
Registered
Building the circuits to hit the dyno (as noted in the zener diode thread). Hopefully next week.
2Busa.
You are repetitively dodging all the questions. Why?
You keep posting this digital, analog crap that I dont believe you really understand.
You refer to the "abstract" in more abstract ways than one, so in trying to sound cool using the new word of the day, you again appear to be very ignorant.
Your 13.5, wrecked or not, is not the same as the Busa, and neither is its ECM. Different values, checksums, parameters, and tolerances etc...
What you just simply cannot comprehend is the replacing of a 5th gear resistance value in-line to the 6th gear position. Why is it so hard to figure out? Answer a few questions, or these. Do you agree the GPS works of a 7 position switch, each having a set value of resistance (N is included in this equation, but if you believe N does not have a resistance you seriously need more help in understand basic electronics and computer tuning than I can offer).
FWIW, you come on over and prove my Busa is in 6th FX and I will pay for your trip here and back. Hell, prove anything you've said and I'd start listening a little more openly to your pathetic attempt to describe a computer tuning approach to Busa's. You can't say "its in the abstract" or read page xxxx thats not proving anything, since you continuously misinterpret the information from not only the manual, but seeming everything else.
You are repetitively dodging all the questions. Why?
You keep posting this digital, analog crap that I dont believe you really understand.
You refer to the "abstract" in more abstract ways than one, so in trying to sound cool using the new word of the day, you again appear to be very ignorant.
Your 13.5, wrecked or not, is not the same as the Busa, and neither is its ECM. Different values, checksums, parameters, and tolerances etc...
What you just simply cannot comprehend is the replacing of a 5th gear resistance value in-line to the 6th gear position. Why is it so hard to figure out? Answer a few questions, or these. Do you agree the GPS works of a 7 position switch, each having a set value of resistance (N is included in this equation, but if you believe N does not have a resistance you seriously need more help in understand basic electronics and computer tuning than I can offer).
FWIW, you come on over and prove my Busa is in 6th FX and I will pay for your trip here and back. Hell, prove anything you've said and I'd start listening a little more openly to your pathetic attempt to describe a computer tuning approach to Busa's. You can't say "its in the abstract" or read page xxxx thats not proving anything, since you continuously misinterpret the information from not only the manual, but seeming everything else.
Let me take a pause here and thank those that have participated so far... OK, back to the grind...
Cougar: "I never said I was going to use a 15k Ohm resistor. You, 2busa, brought in the 15K ohm resistor thing when you posted the diagram of the TRE/switchable TRE of a TLR/S'.
I did, however, say I would use 6.79K Ohms, which is the EXACT measurement of the resistance through the 5th gear land." Coug, I have my hand under your chin and it's pointing your head left and up. Why the zenor? Isn't the clutch mod working good enough, CAT's mod, a tre, ETC!! Read both of your sentences one more time. I will now walk you through 4 resistance measurements: (1) Your first sentence is the TL defaulting to the 6fx'd. This is correct terminology for the Suzuki line. The TL's GPS (ecm) line is severed. Damn, if that's not chasing the 6Fx, you have to literally be blind, deff, dumb, add... Stoopid! (2) for the second sentence... Be my guest... use a 6.79K. (makes no never mind which wire you use EITHER). (3) I'll wait as long as you like for your zenor test. Oh, was that the zenor number you're using? Cool, let's make this one, CAT's mod for #3. (4) Am I #4 with the 270 Tandy that ohm'd the, (6) BACKUP, (Kawi's Tech Terms). If you like, you may continue the count off the aftrmkt gang and their resistances; fighting for the Busa Gold Standard, The 5th Gear Gift Pack. - now you qualify to understand 3 bikes are basically dead banging the same code set, IN THE GPS!
I'll bring them up to be qualified to work in the pits of a modern sport bike event, zalto, or like everyone else, you won't have a clue of the basic computer bike come, 'no run' time.
Cougar, I'll wait for your testing. Take your time. It took me awhile to figure out the GPS is a package deal on the 13.5 too... But, it didn't take me 7 years....OH SHEET, (I'm sorry).
Cougar: "I never said I was going to use a 15k Ohm resistor. You, 2busa, brought in the 15K ohm resistor thing when you posted the diagram of the TRE/switchable TRE of a TLR/S'.
I did, however, say I would use 6.79K Ohms, which is the EXACT measurement of the resistance through the 5th gear land." Coug, I have my hand under your chin and it's pointing your head left and up. Why the zenor? Isn't the clutch mod working good enough, CAT's mod, a tre, ETC!! Read both of your sentences one more time. I will now walk you through 4 resistance measurements: (1) Your first sentence is the TL defaulting to the 6fx'd. This is correct terminology for the Suzuki line. The TL's GPS (ecm) line is severed. Damn, if that's not chasing the 6Fx, you have to literally be blind, deff, dumb, add... Stoopid! (2) for the second sentence... Be my guest... use a 6.79K. (makes no never mind which wire you use EITHER). (3) I'll wait as long as you like for your zenor test. Oh, was that the zenor number you're using? Cool, let's make this one, CAT's mod for #3. (4) Am I #4 with the 270 Tandy that ohm'd the, (6) BACKUP, (Kawi's Tech Terms). If you like, you may continue the count off the aftrmkt gang and their resistances; fighting for the Busa Gold Standard, The 5th Gear Gift Pack. - now you qualify to understand 3 bikes are basically dead banging the same code set, IN THE GPS!
I'll bring them up to be qualified to work in the pits of a modern sport bike event, zalto, or like everyone else, you won't have a clue of the basic computer bike come, 'no run' time.
Cougar, I'll wait for your testing. Take your time. It took me awhile to figure out the GPS is a package deal on the 13.5 too... But, it didn't take me 7 years....OH SHEET, (I'm sorry).
CAT: "You are repetitively dodging all the questions. Why?
You keep posting this digital, analog crap that I dont believe you really understand.
You refer to the "abstract" in more abstract ways than one, so in trying to sound cool using the new word of the day, you again appear to be very ignorant.
Your 13.5, wrecked or not, is not the same as the Busa, and neither is its ECM. Different values, checksums, parameters, and tolerances etc..." The bike is so complex, you think I care what the deep details are. I know the basics. I know the way the computer reacts, because I watch the results in the practical, meaning, 190, the trim and the R's to push the numbers. I really, really understand there is the the book abstract explaining the trigger to 6-package. Now Cougar is going to throw a zenor at it. You don't see the simplicity to the 6th. All your piles of diodes, zenors, math computations thinking this is the resistance value, this going to do it this time... UREKA!
"What you just simply cannot comprehend is the replacing of a 5th gear resistance value in-line to the 6th gear position. Why is it so hard to figure out?" CAT, to tell you the truth, someone came up with a 270 ohm to ground using the ECU wire. I wanted to test the code on the fly. I could literally flip the switch (video), the 6 would lock on the shift window, and the first thing that hit me was, CODE? I said, "Man-o-man if this is a code 25 with a hidden locked subs, and the limiter gone, what are the other codes like?" That's how basic it is, CAT. I'll Tell you right now, I know the 6-package is you boy as I will take the absolute, 4 things to make a computer bike work to my death... either the the compression gives up, the 6 will be set or the ECM burns out, you've been suckling on the 6Fx'd for the last 7 years.
"FWIW, you come on over and prove my Busa is in 6th FX and I will pay for your trip here and back. Hell, prove anything you've said and I'd start listening a little more openly to your pathetic attempt to describe a computer tuning approach to Busa's. You can't say "its in the abstract" or read page xxxx thats not proving anything, since you continuously misinterpret the information from not only the manual, but seeming everything else." Save your money. Simply return the GPS to stock and you will see the performance of the 6 stop working.
The bottom line is to wait for the test. How many does that make so far? Would you like to discuss while we wait, the other failed results? No one has yet to hit the 5th, have they?
Do you now understand why? 1st GPS wire to the ECU receives one resistance to the 2nd wire out to a j-box, (junction). Look at the N. It is a direct shot to ground w/out a resistance, just 12v to eliminate the bulb-to ground. The package 3rd wire goes in one junction box, (from the GPS) and out to the next junction box, (2 codes not triggered, but act the codes in the absolute description). Look at the resistance from 6th gear wire, out. When the shifter (inside the bake) clicks to 6th gear, there is resistance value(?) between the 6 pin and the physical wire out of the GPS to the first j-box. From there, then to the junction box to meet his buddy, (building the package) in the second j-box, and then to ground. You took the j-boxes out of the loop, which is maybe why no codes shown is my deduction. What is yours? The j-boxes are still connected to their codes. They may not need to be triggered, since this is a hack to begin with.
Do this... Eliminate the neutral light wire from the GPS. 1st wire goes from ECM to GPS 1st gear. The wire out is 6th with a resistance between the 6th pin contact, (in the bake) and the wire going out. How do you expect to work the resistance of the 6th value (to the wire out) resistance w/the 5th not being the last signal in the group, but bringing along a 5th voltage value to replace the 6's lower value?.... Do you see how the GPS switch is a, "complete loop" to the other two packages. You sever the ECM, which breaks the loop from GPS to the 2 junction boxes. You then ground the ECM wire with a zenor? Thanks, you now activated the GPS wire to read one value as if the ratchet inside the bake broke. This leaves you stuck in 5th. The ECM knows 5th map will not feed 4th gear map with a 5th map. A 6Fx will nurse any gear. So, thanks for the reconnection to the resistance that is looped to ground? Thank you very much for eliminating the 2 j-boxes while you were at it. Here is your 6Fx like no tomorrow. Beats me how the computer works if you ground the GPS ECM wire to ground.... OH,OH, OH, now I know.
Too simple to understand, is it not?
You keep posting this digital, analog crap that I dont believe you really understand.
You refer to the "abstract" in more abstract ways than one, so in trying to sound cool using the new word of the day, you again appear to be very ignorant.
Your 13.5, wrecked or not, is not the same as the Busa, and neither is its ECM. Different values, checksums, parameters, and tolerances etc..." The bike is so complex, you think I care what the deep details are. I know the basics. I know the way the computer reacts, because I watch the results in the practical, meaning, 190, the trim and the R's to push the numbers. I really, really understand there is the the book abstract explaining the trigger to 6-package. Now Cougar is going to throw a zenor at it. You don't see the simplicity to the 6th. All your piles of diodes, zenors, math computations thinking this is the resistance value, this going to do it this time... UREKA!
"What you just simply cannot comprehend is the replacing of a 5th gear resistance value in-line to the 6th gear position. Why is it so hard to figure out?" CAT, to tell you the truth, someone came up with a 270 ohm to ground using the ECU wire. I wanted to test the code on the fly. I could literally flip the switch (video), the 6 would lock on the shift window, and the first thing that hit me was, CODE? I said, "Man-o-man if this is a code 25 with a hidden locked subs, and the limiter gone, what are the other codes like?" That's how basic it is, CAT. I'll Tell you right now, I know the 6-package is you boy as I will take the absolute, 4 things to make a computer bike work to my death... either the the compression gives up, the 6 will be set or the ECM burns out, you've been suckling on the 6Fx'd for the last 7 years.
"FWIW, you come on over and prove my Busa is in 6th FX and I will pay for your trip here and back. Hell, prove anything you've said and I'd start listening a little more openly to your pathetic attempt to describe a computer tuning approach to Busa's. You can't say "its in the abstract" or read page xxxx thats not proving anything, since you continuously misinterpret the information from not only the manual, but seeming everything else." Save your money. Simply return the GPS to stock and you will see the performance of the 6 stop working.
The bottom line is to wait for the test. How many does that make so far? Would you like to discuss while we wait, the other failed results? No one has yet to hit the 5th, have they?
Do you now understand why? 1st GPS wire to the ECU receives one resistance to the 2nd wire out to a j-box, (junction). Look at the N. It is a direct shot to ground w/out a resistance, just 12v to eliminate the bulb-to ground. The package 3rd wire goes in one junction box, (from the GPS) and out to the next junction box, (2 codes not triggered, but act the codes in the absolute description). Look at the resistance from 6th gear wire, out. When the shifter (inside the bake) clicks to 6th gear, there is resistance value(?) between the 6 pin and the physical wire out of the GPS to the first j-box. From there, then to the junction box to meet his buddy, (building the package) in the second j-box, and then to ground. You took the j-boxes out of the loop, which is maybe why no codes shown is my deduction. What is yours? The j-boxes are still connected to their codes. They may not need to be triggered, since this is a hack to begin with.
Do this... Eliminate the neutral light wire from the GPS. 1st wire goes from ECM to GPS 1st gear. The wire out is 6th with a resistance between the 6th pin contact, (in the bake) and the wire going out. How do you expect to work the resistance of the 6th value (to the wire out) resistance w/the 5th not being the last signal in the group, but bringing along a 5th voltage value to replace the 6's lower value?.... Do you see how the GPS switch is a, "complete loop" to the other two packages. You sever the ECM, which breaks the loop from GPS to the 2 junction boxes. You then ground the ECM wire with a zenor? Thanks, you now activated the GPS wire to read one value as if the ratchet inside the bake broke. This leaves you stuck in 5th. The ECM knows 5th map will not feed 4th gear map with a 5th map. A 6Fx will nurse any gear. So, thanks for the reconnection to the resistance that is looped to ground? Thank you very much for eliminating the 2 j-boxes while you were at it. Here is your 6Fx like no tomorrow. Beats me how the computer works if you ground the GPS ECM wire to ground.... OH,OH, OH, now I know.
Too simple to understand, is it not?
Actually its kind of difficult to understand your points, if you could only invest as much time learning the correct terminology as you have the wrong terminology it might make sense....seriously.
I still don't agree with you on the 6fx issue and you saying pull the wires and the bike instantly becomes a race prep'd machine (not in direct words, but in essence thats what you claim). The 6fx is not what you think it is. Contact the engineers at Suzuki and ask them if the Busa was designed for a failsafe to also be race-ready setting....hell even ask Kawi since you dont have a Busa, I dont care either way. And you really should get out of the mind set that the Busa and 13.5 share the same ecm functionals. They both provide electronic signals to operate injectors, etc, but go about it using different parameters, data etc..
I still don't agree with you on the 6fx issue and you saying pull the wires and the bike instantly becomes a race prep'd machine (not in direct words, but in essence thats what you claim). The 6fx is not what you think it is. Contact the engineers at Suzuki and ask them if the Busa was designed for a failsafe to also be race-ready setting....hell even ask Kawi since you dont have a Busa, I dont care either way. And you really should get out of the mind set that the Busa and 13.5 share the same ecm functionals. They both provide electronic signals to operate injectors, etc, but go about it using different parameters, data etc..
cougar694u
Registered
LOL, what? When I read your posts, I feel like I'm reading one from a Nigerian wanting to send me an excess check for the item I'm selling.
Yes, they are, but why not try new methods? There are multiple way to skin a cat, you know.
Um, that's zenEr diode. And no, that's not the 'zener number' I'm using. 6.79K Ohms is resistance. We're using a 4.3v zener diode.
I think you're still missing the point. All wires are connected and the ECU sees 6.79K Ohms, it's going to assume the gear selected is 5th and logically change to 5th gear (as in load that ignition map). The loops are still there just as if the GPS was hooked up. Step through it from the ECU: Is the black wire grounded? True; is the blue wire grounded? True; Signal from red wire = infinite resistance. In this scenario, the ECU realizes it's in Neutral. Now, while in gear: Is the black wire grounded? True; Is the blue wire ground? False; Sign from red wire = 6.79K Ohms. Now the computer realizes it's in 5th gear. Wouldn't you agree?
I do have another question for you, though, why do you have to re-jet a carb'd bike when upgrading exhaust and/or intake?
Cougar: "I do have another question for you, though, why do you have to re-jet a carb'd bike when upgrading exhaust and/or intake?"
The reason for re-jetting vacuum type carbs is because you are the sensors. You jet, inspect the plug, and the re-jet to tune for weather. Come winter (rich-en), or if riding up the mountains, your jetting becomes rich the higher you rise in elevation. FI compensates for altitude - no bogging.
Start on the intake side. Remove the element and you get a huge bog because the air upon the vacuum (jet), has increased, but the fuel to compensate has not physically changed. You have to re-jet for more intake air. The FI uses rpm and TPS to feed fuel. The fast air peppering the sensors is being plotted in proportion to RPM and TPS. There is no bog when you hit the throttle with FI. You don't have this fuel being pulled out of a small orifice that needs to become larger with the extra air.
The exhaust end is somewhat critical to keep the unspent flowing fuel from dumping down the exhaust opening (on overlap), so the exhaust pulse moving back against the pulse can stop unspent fuel flowing out at the cleaning (overlap) stroke.
FI automatically compensates for the A/C and exhaust tracts. WOT the Busa. The bike takes off or the front comes up on a quick WOT. There is no lag, and the exhaust pulse means nothing about overlap fuel loss. W/FI, there is no fuel flowing from jets. The injection will not purge fuel when the valves are overlapping = no fuel escapes. The exhaust (reversion) pulse no longer is needed to hold the unspent fuel from leaving the cylinder chamber. The fuel is triggered with the valves closed.
The FI is like a walking atmo/tempe/altitu mixer. It knows what fuel needs delivering at THAT cylinder, using the TPS and crank sensor, while the other parameters report in the rest, (for final mixture). It is designed to take care of the correct measurement to deliver, EVEN IN THE F-SAFE CODE iF ANY SENSOR FAILS> 760mmHg/a-N method/Ta 30 deg/another sensor plotting 760mmHg = Busa/13.5.
Think of a dragster with short headers. There is no pipe scavenging help using 11'' exhaust headers, (during WOT). FI acts the same way. You don't need a 4 into 1. You just need to clear- straight- path for the exhaust/intake to move uninterrupted on both ends. The restriction on both the air and exhaust will simply let the FI spin that much slower, (perfectly tuned either way). The FI works on crank speed and throttle position. Try to mimic the driveability of the EFI, and you'll be changing jets more than you ride the bike.
Cougar: "Now the computer realizes it's in 5th gear. Wouldn't you agree?" Not one sentence, Cougar. Show me (by design) how 5th feeds 5 other gears with a 5th gear map, when the 6Fx is, "designed to compensate" using the default f-safe maps. The 6Fx feeds (all gears) under a code set.
Let's use 7 people in a circle. I will be the 7th person acting as the ECM. The other 6 people will be the gears. We all hold hands to complete a circle, (complete a circuit loop). You come along, pull my arm out of the gear hand holding loop together, and you bolt my one hand to ground. Imagine what the computer does when my hand is not connected (to 6 input readings), when it should be reading 6 different inputs by design. Not only is the single input out of spec I'm reading (zener), the loop to the 2 j-boxes (my other hand) receives no signal to complete the loop. I'm now without 6 inputs, and also, my communication to the 2 j-boxes no longer are in the loop = I need help - HELLO 6FX'd to the complete the faulty GPS wire. That's all it took was one wire to trigger 6Fx.
See, no code, but the "Package is in play". Now, if I reversed the wires, used the sensor/j-box loop, I would throw the hard code, equaling the same package = 190/400/fu/ign.
CAT quote: "Actually its kind of difficult to understand your points, if you could only invest as much time learning the correct terminology as you have the wrong terminology it might make sense....seriously. I'm using the terminology of both bikes as if you worked for a single franchise dealer or a multi-franchised dealer. You are hired to work on more than one brand of bike. Correct my words then.
"I still don't agree with you on the 6fx issue and you saying pull the wires and the bike instantly becomes a race prep'd machine (not in direct words, but in essence that's what you claim). The 6fx is not what you think it is. Contact the engineers at Suzuki and ask them if the Busa was designed for a fail-safe to also be race-ready setting....hell even ask Kawi since you don't have a Busa, I dont care either way. And you really should get out of the mind set that the Busa and 13.5 share the same ecm functions. They both provide electronic signals to operate injectors, etc, but go about it using different parameters, data etc." CAT, HELLO! I'm looking at the same exact parameters from both books = atmo/temo/etc (760mmHg/80 dg water temp/6f-safe/(6)backup), so don't tell me about the bikes being different. You have no clue, and here I am pointing out the race maps in f-safe and blowing away your 5th gear with every theory you come up with. I simply deduct your theories as per book abstract and both books guide you right back to the absolute. Follow the path of the book, not the cheeze whiz. Russ Collins could not find anyone, let along finding an ECM engineer to divulge inside info on the ECM's function. CAT, think about who reads this. I cover my ass saying, "race set" ... Think about it, (fed-emissions-Duh!)
The reason for re-jetting vacuum type carbs is because you are the sensors. You jet, inspect the plug, and the re-jet to tune for weather. Come winter (rich-en), or if riding up the mountains, your jetting becomes rich the higher you rise in elevation. FI compensates for altitude - no bogging.
Start on the intake side. Remove the element and you get a huge bog because the air upon the vacuum (jet), has increased, but the fuel to compensate has not physically changed. You have to re-jet for more intake air. The FI uses rpm and TPS to feed fuel. The fast air peppering the sensors is being plotted in proportion to RPM and TPS. There is no bog when you hit the throttle with FI. You don't have this fuel being pulled out of a small orifice that needs to become larger with the extra air.
The exhaust end is somewhat critical to keep the unspent flowing fuel from dumping down the exhaust opening (on overlap), so the exhaust pulse moving back against the pulse can stop unspent fuel flowing out at the cleaning (overlap) stroke.
FI automatically compensates for the A/C and exhaust tracts. WOT the Busa. The bike takes off or the front comes up on a quick WOT. There is no lag, and the exhaust pulse means nothing about overlap fuel loss. W/FI, there is no fuel flowing from jets. The injection will not purge fuel when the valves are overlapping = no fuel escapes. The exhaust (reversion) pulse no longer is needed to hold the unspent fuel from leaving the cylinder chamber. The fuel is triggered with the valves closed.
The FI is like a walking atmo/tempe/altitu mixer. It knows what fuel needs delivering at THAT cylinder, using the TPS and crank sensor, while the other parameters report in the rest, (for final mixture). It is designed to take care of the correct measurement to deliver, EVEN IN THE F-SAFE CODE iF ANY SENSOR FAILS> 760mmHg/a-N method/Ta 30 deg/another sensor plotting 760mmHg = Busa/13.5.
Think of a dragster with short headers. There is no pipe scavenging help using 11'' exhaust headers, (during WOT). FI acts the same way. You don't need a 4 into 1. You just need to clear- straight- path for the exhaust/intake to move uninterrupted on both ends. The restriction on both the air and exhaust will simply let the FI spin that much slower, (perfectly tuned either way). The FI works on crank speed and throttle position. Try to mimic the driveability of the EFI, and you'll be changing jets more than you ride the bike.
Cougar: "Now the computer realizes it's in 5th gear. Wouldn't you agree?" Not one sentence, Cougar. Show me (by design) how 5th feeds 5 other gears with a 5th gear map, when the 6Fx is, "designed to compensate" using the default f-safe maps. The 6Fx feeds (all gears) under a code set.
Let's use 7 people in a circle. I will be the 7th person acting as the ECM. The other 6 people will be the gears. We all hold hands to complete a circle, (complete a circuit loop). You come along, pull my arm out of the gear hand holding loop together, and you bolt my one hand to ground. Imagine what the computer does when my hand is not connected (to 6 input readings), when it should be reading 6 different inputs by design. Not only is the single input out of spec I'm reading (zener), the loop to the 2 j-boxes (my other hand) receives no signal to complete the loop. I'm now without 6 inputs, and also, my communication to the 2 j-boxes no longer are in the loop = I need help - HELLO 6FX'd to the complete the faulty GPS wire. That's all it took was one wire to trigger 6Fx.
See, no code, but the "Package is in play". Now, if I reversed the wires, used the sensor/j-box loop, I would throw the hard code, equaling the same package = 190/400/fu/ign.
CAT quote: "Actually its kind of difficult to understand your points, if you could only invest as much time learning the correct terminology as you have the wrong terminology it might make sense....seriously. I'm using the terminology of both bikes as if you worked for a single franchise dealer or a multi-franchised dealer. You are hired to work on more than one brand of bike. Correct my words then.
"I still don't agree with you on the 6fx issue and you saying pull the wires and the bike instantly becomes a race prep'd machine (not in direct words, but in essence that's what you claim). The 6fx is not what you think it is. Contact the engineers at Suzuki and ask them if the Busa was designed for a fail-safe to also be race-ready setting....hell even ask Kawi since you don't have a Busa, I dont care either way. And you really should get out of the mind set that the Busa and 13.5 share the same ecm functions. They both provide electronic signals to operate injectors, etc, but go about it using different parameters, data etc." CAT, HELLO! I'm looking at the same exact parameters from both books = atmo/temo/etc (760mmHg/80 dg water temp/6f-safe/(6)backup), so don't tell me about the bikes being different. You have no clue, and here I am pointing out the race maps in f-safe and blowing away your 5th gear with every theory you come up with. I simply deduct your theories as per book abstract and both books guide you right back to the absolute. Follow the path of the book, not the cheeze whiz. Russ Collins could not find anyone, let along finding an ECM engineer to divulge inside info on the ECM's function. CAT, think about who reads this. I cover my ass saying, "race set" ... Think about it, (fed-emissions-Duh!)
Dude, you haven't proven anything, nothing. Your terminology and grammar suck. I wouldn't be surprised to see you type an abstract of the abstract says in theory the absoute is abstract. Your overuse of abstract/theory and such is old and often confusing. Stick to typing what you mean. There, again you are being corrected.
Now, in the book, you fail to read the part of failsafe being a "limphome" mode of the ECM. It doesn't say race mode, it doesn't say kickass mode. Your interpretation of the manual is wrong again.
You also fail to read and follow the diagrams and written description of C31 and its relation to the ECM vs. GPS. Its not a theory. It is written in the book....if the GPS FAILS C31 will be set. Fails 2Busa, like your "theories", not tampered with. Guess that part of the book you intentionally ignored huh?
Learn to read, and understand WTF your reading before spitting **** out on a forum when you haven't backed up a damn thing. I swear you are the most stubborn, thickheaded ignoramous I've ever encountered in my life.
My theory is your a dumbass. Prove me wrong!
Now, in the book, you fail to read the part of failsafe being a "limphome" mode of the ECM. It doesn't say race mode, it doesn't say kickass mode. Your interpretation of the manual is wrong again.
You also fail to read and follow the diagrams and written description of C31 and its relation to the ECM vs. GPS. Its not a theory. It is written in the book....if the GPS FAILS C31 will be set. Fails 2Busa, like your "theories", not tampered with. Guess that part of the book you intentionally ignored huh?
Learn to read, and understand WTF your reading before spitting **** out on a forum when you haven't backed up a damn thing. I swear you are the most stubborn, thickheaded ignoramous I've ever encountered in my life.
My theory is your a dumbass. Prove me wrong!
I admit, I'm weak on the sentence structure, but the point gets across none the less. CAT, this is funny. There are 7 years worth of Busas on, "limp mode" and no one is complaining, (sans the Pc maps). Ever think of that? You sure aren't complaining about the 6Fx'd either. You hypocrite, you love the limp mode 6FX'D! Wait until I tell everyone.
This is unreal to me. You don't see the TL1000 chasing the 6Fx, WHERE ELSE BUT IN THE GPS SENSOR TO DIABLE THE, (can u say, "Me wants the 'Package' too!") UNIT ITSELF. THIS IS THE UN-FRACKIN'-UN-BELIEVEABLE THING > YOU DON'T SEE IT!. IS THE TL CHASING WHAT, A 5TH MAP TOO?
CAT, if you don't see both bikes act exactly the same way in our atmosphere, you really couldn't diagnose your way out of a paper bag if both ends of the bag blinded you with daylight.
This is unreal to me. You don't see the TL1000 chasing the 6Fx, WHERE ELSE BUT IN THE GPS SENSOR TO DIABLE THE, (can u say, "Me wants the 'Package' too!") UNIT ITSELF. THIS IS THE UN-FRACKIN'-UN-BELIEVEABLE THING > YOU DON'T SEE IT!. IS THE TL CHASING WHAT, A 5TH MAP TOO?
CAT, if you don't see both bikes act exactly the same way in our atmosphere, you really couldn't diagnose your way out of a paper bag if both ends of the bag blinded you with daylight.
I dont recall ever mentioning a TL so please stop referring to that, thank you.
You say 7yrs worth of Busa's in limpmode with no one complaining except those using the Power Commander... Are you suggesting that everyone using the PC would be better of yanking it out and the GPS to put the Busa in limp mode? Unbelievable is what I call that, and I am sure the thousands of users of the PC (or other similar tuning tools) would love to hear how you, a low buck-inexperienced no talent tool came up with that conclusion. You really do believe yourself, I'll give you that.
I ain't complaining about the 6fx because my Busa is not in it you dope. What don't you get about that? Come on over and SHOW me that my Busa is in 6fx, I dare ya. You can't and won't I know. Hypocrite? No, just a plain old smartass with some understanding, a Busa and a keyboard
No, sans your comment on the TL and its relationship to the Busa, I am sure I could not only find my way out of bag...as you say, but I'd find more power in your bike or mine than you would, with or without touching the internals! So, have fun in your fantasy world where PC users are stupid and ppl that yank the GPS are #1.
CAT: "Dude, you haven't proven anything, nothing." I have proved, the abstract of 6. You are attempting to chase 5th with, atre/tre/ohm/zener/this tre, and they ALL default to the same mode = 190/6Fu/Ig/400. That is what I have proven. Every mod defaults to 6 = PROOF to your 5TH. "Your terminology and grammar suck. I wouldn't be surprised to see you type an abstract of the abstract says in theory the absoute is abstract. Your overuse of abstract/theory and such is old and often confusing. Stick to typing what you mean. There, again you are being corrected." You can read the FI internet pages till you turn blue. Did the technical experts explain (using grammar/correct terms/better comprehension) to you how to read the bike? CAT, I have to be so bizarre in concept, because you sure didn't comprehend reading the bike acting in concert with the theory, to the practical, (are you asleep yet of the same old boring word = ) to the absolute.
Now, in the book, you fail to read the part of failsafe being a "limphome" mode of the ECM. It doesn't say race mode, it doesn't say kickass mode. Your interpretation of the manual is wrong again. My interpretation is the experiment to use the f-safe maps as a tuning tool. The book does not state, "Pull up the 760mmHg and fell the slight crispness to the throttle. No, it did not say that in the in the 13.5 manual either. All I did was question why the big deal looking for 5th when the default is the package you triggered. Wasn't that package you wanted? Why look for anything else in the GPS".
"You also fail to read and follow the diagrams and written description of C31 and its relation to the ECM vs. GPS. Its not a theory. It is written in the book....if the GPS FAILS C31 will be set. Fails 2Busa, like your "theories", not tampered with. Guess that part of the book you intentionally ignored huh?" Tamper? If by chance, CAT, your brain can communicate with your rear end on the seat of a Busa, could you feel the difference in the mod you induced? Of course you did. You tampered with GPS, the book calls a 6fx to upload for any tampering. Can you say for a fact, your mod is feeding all gears thru the 5th? Did you find 5th for a fact, or could there possibly be a percentage factor on my part of the theory, you're really opened the 6 default.
"Learn to read, and understand WTF your reading before spitting **** out on a forum when you haven't backed up a damn thing. I swear you are the most stubborn, thickheaded ignoramous I've ever encountered in my life.'
'My theory is your a dumbass. Prove me wrong!" I proved you wrong over and over. Your mod. my mod, your future mods, (Dude, I'm on the next page, "running other mod" you, Dolt!)... will all default to the book's abstract, be it hard coded, or tampered with a wire showing no code. For the GPS to release you package, THE ABSOLUTE FACT IS... YOU TAMPERED WITH THE GPS WIRES IN 1 OF 3 WAYS. THE PROOF CAT, "THE PROOF CAT", IS THE TAMPERING TO THE DEFAULT 6fx'd, NOT THE 5TH. Those are the facts!
Now, in the book, you fail to read the part of failsafe being a "limphome" mode of the ECM. It doesn't say race mode, it doesn't say kickass mode. Your interpretation of the manual is wrong again. My interpretation is the experiment to use the f-safe maps as a tuning tool. The book does not state, "Pull up the 760mmHg and fell the slight crispness to the throttle. No, it did not say that in the in the 13.5 manual either. All I did was question why the big deal looking for 5th when the default is the package you triggered. Wasn't that package you wanted? Why look for anything else in the GPS".
"You also fail to read and follow the diagrams and written description of C31 and its relation to the ECM vs. GPS. Its not a theory. It is written in the book....if the GPS FAILS C31 will be set. Fails 2Busa, like your "theories", not tampered with. Guess that part of the book you intentionally ignored huh?" Tamper? If by chance, CAT, your brain can communicate with your rear end on the seat of a Busa, could you feel the difference in the mod you induced? Of course you did. You tampered with GPS, the book calls a 6fx to upload for any tampering. Can you say for a fact, your mod is feeding all gears thru the 5th? Did you find 5th for a fact, or could there possibly be a percentage factor on my part of the theory, you're really opened the 6 default.
"Learn to read, and understand WTF your reading before spitting **** out on a forum when you haven't backed up a damn thing. I swear you are the most stubborn, thickheaded ignoramous I've ever encountered in my life.'
'My theory is your a dumbass. Prove me wrong!" I proved you wrong over and over. Your mod. my mod, your future mods, (Dude, I'm on the next page, "running other mod" you, Dolt!)... will all default to the book's abstract, be it hard coded, or tampered with a wire showing no code. For the GPS to release you package, THE ABSOLUTE FACT IS... YOU TAMPERED WITH THE GPS WIRES IN 1 OF 3 WAYS. THE PROOF CAT, "THE PROOF CAT", IS THE TAMPERING TO THE DEFAULT 6fx'd, NOT THE 5TH. Those are the facts!
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