Secondary Butterflies removal review

This is just my opinion about why not to remove Secondary's. I heard that you lose power when removed, because the secondary's injectors hit the butterfly that have an angle so the fuel when hit the butterfly flow to the head and when you remove them and the secondary injectors start to work as they have a 90 degree angle or more (compare to primary injectors) the fuel hit the throttle body and makes a turbulence that make you lose power. I was thinking in remove mine but when I looked at the K8 service manual page 228 section 1D-9 I changed my mind. And the zx14 only have one set of injectors (4) and the busa two set (8). I think if there is any how to change their position like lower ones you will have better flow and a possible HP gains. I’m just guessing because I’m a beginner in performance but I like to read and heard other experienced mechanics. Hope someone is agree with me.
:beerchug:
 
wscycle said:
This is just my opinion about why not to remove Secondary's. I heard that you lose power when removed, because the secondary's injectors hit the butterfly that have an angle so the fuel when hit the butterfly flow to the head and when you remove them and the secondary injectors start to work as they have a 90 degree angle or more (compare to primary injectors) the fuel hit the throttle body and makes a turbulence that make you lose power. I was thinking in remove mine but when I looked at the K8 service manual page 228 section 1D-9 I changed my mind. And the zx14 only have one set of injectors (4) and the busa two set (8). I think if there is any how to change their position like lower ones you will have better flow and a possible HP gains. I’m just guessing because I’m a beginner in performance but I like to read and heard other experienced mechanics. Hope someone is agree with me.
:beerchug:
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You make good points and I won't disagree. But one more time... it works for my application. With them out, the bike has alot more off idle response and power, it lifts the tire so much easier. What happens after that, I don't care.
 
sixpack577 said:
You make good points and I won't disagree. But one more time... it works for my application. With them out, the bike has alot more off idle response and power, it lifts the tire so much easier. What happens after that, I don't care.
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I am going to put them back in and see if I notice anything different. I do think with them out it does wheelie more easily. Most of us are trying to get everything we can out of these bikes and doing this cost nothing to try. Does it do anything? Does a TRE :whistle:
 
Dozerdriver said:
I am going to put them back in and see if I notice anything different. I do think with them out it does wheelie more easily. Most of us are trying to get everything we can out of these bikes and doing this cost nothing to try. Does it do anything? Does a TRE :whistle:
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Do you really drive that bull dozer in the picture? What is it used for minning or something?
 
For you guys who did remove the secondaries, did you notice or think that the factory had used something like locktite on the little bolts? Did they seem really easy to strip?

My buddy with his '09 ZX14 removed the secondaries, and other mods, but had a helluva time getting them out. Kawi used really soft metal AND some kinda locktite to make getting them out really tough. Had to heat a screwdriver & then hold the screwdriver to the tiny bolt to weaken the locktite before getting them out.

I'd just like a heads up before diving in ... if they came out without a problem, nice. If not, I'll set aside more garage time for their heated removal.

Thanks!

BTW - the difference in his throttle response was substantial. No dyno before & after though.
 
kawasaki seems to use them for limiting power down low, i really dont think that was suzuki's approach.
keep in mind by pulling them out you should really be on a dyno verifying your fuel tuning, 2nd and 3rd gear they dont open as fast as gears 1,4,5,6, and the fueling is setup accordingly.
 
Thanks - will do. I've got a dyno/tuning/ecu appointment with Frank at Powerhouse Motorcycles in NY next Fri. & if I take them off, will do just before that so he can dial it in.
 
unless you are concerned with actual restriction of them when fully open, you can make them do whatever you want with ecu editor, meaning can make them be wide open all the time. It would be very interesting to see a back to back pull with them stock, then with them wide open and see effects on low / midrange power.
 
K - I'll see if he can do it. I just figured what's the point in leaving them in if I can accomplish the same effect, like you point out, via the ecu. Just dead metal in the pipes that sounds easy to remove. BUT, if getting them out is as hard as it was on the ZX14, then it may be another story.

You know if Suzuki used locktite or its equivalent, or soft metal, or some other deterrent?
 
Blckbrd said:
K - I'll see if he can do it. I just figured what's the point in leaving them in if I can accomplish the same effect, like you point out, via the ecu. Just dead metal in the pipes that sounds easy to remove. BUT, if getting them out is as hard as it was on the ZX14, then it may be another story.

You know if Suzuki used locktite or its equivalent, or soft metal, or some other deterrent?
Click to expand...

It looked like some type of blue threadlock on my 08 when I removed them. But they came right out easily, with no stripping to bolt head. I also removed them from a friends 07 ZX10, those where a pain to get out, stripped 2 of the bolt heads, it was a hassle.
Another friend removed them from his 06 GSXR1000, they came out very easy too, Suzuki knows how to build a bike:laugh:
We all have been running these bikes this way for several thousand miles with no problems at all. Please post up your dyno results when you have them, thanks
 
Blckbrd said:
K - I'll see if he can do it. I just figured what's the point in leaving them in if I can accomplish the same effect, like you point out, via the ecu. Just dead metal in the pipes that sounds easy to remove. BUT, if getting them out is as hard as it was on the ZX14, then it may be another story.

You know if Suzuki used locktite or its equivalent, or soft metal, or some other deterrent?
Click to expand...

Getting them out wasn't hard at all... just make sure you have the right size phillips and keep it in the head straight with pressure ( soft screws ). Putting them back in wasn't as simple as getting them out but I was able to do it. I put them back in mainly because I don't have access to a dyno and didn't know if things are ok... decided to go to a 17 tooth front and so far is working out good. Let us know how the dyno tune goes.. :beerchug:
 
Dozerdriver said:
Getting them out wasn't hard at all... just make sure you have the right size phillips and keep it in the head straight with pressure ( soft screws ). Putting them back in wasn't as simple as getting them out but I was able to do it. I put them back in mainly because I don't have access to a dyno and didn't know if things are ok... decided to go to a 17 tooth front and so far is working out good. Let us know how the dyno tune goes.. :beerchug:
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Does the -1 sprocket feel about the same as the 18 tooth with the secondaries out? My guess is they feel similiar.
 
I followed through this thread and found some very interesting comments. Went out and pulled the tank up and removed them and took her out for a thousand mile ride. I have got to say this was one of the quickest mods that has paid dividends right off the bat. Snappier response on the throttle, a lot more torque and she has the tendency to get front end light easier. The only down side is my mileage went down by about 15 mpg so I am running mid 40's. :beerchug::thumbsup:
 
Dr E said:
I followed through this thread and found some very interesting comments. Went out and pulled the tank up and removed them and took her out for a thousand mile ride. I have got to say this was one of the quickest mods that has paid dividends right off the bat. Snappier response on the throttle, a lot more torque and she has the tendency to get front end light easier. The only down side is my mileage went down by about 15 mpg so I am running mid 40's. :beerchug::thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Awesome, thanks for postin that:beerchug:
 
Dr E said:
I followed through this thread and found some very interesting comments. Went out and pulled the tank up and removed them and took her out for a thousand mile ride. I have got to say this was one of the quickest mods that has paid dividends right off the bat. Snappier response on the throttle, a lot more torque and she has the tendency to get front end light easier. The only down side is my mileage went down by about 15 mpg so I am running mid 40's. :beerchug::thumbsup:
Click to expand...

So it's in your head too :whistle: It makes a difference in the seat for sure!
 
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