oh that's ok 99.. now that I have switched from a woodstove to natural gas heat in the house, those pamphlets aren't as useful as they used to be..
Religion
- Thread starter ThunderJohn
- Start date
hmmmmmmm... have you posted in many other atheist threads yet?
Oh Hey Great Idea!!!
no .. actually I haven't.. I was refering to my own experiences..mostly in person. If other Atheists are acting and behaving like total raving nut cases,I expect I would be embarrassed at their behavior.. as I would hope intelligent christians are about such religious representatives.hmmmmmmm... have you posted in many other atheist threads yet?
YES. Some "Christians" should never let Jesus's name come out of their mouth. They are the ones that give us a bad name.no .. actually I haven't.. I was refering to my own experiences..mostly in person. If other Atheists are acting and behaving like total raving nut cases,I expect I would be embarrassed at their behavior.. as I would hope intelligent christians are about such religious representatives.hmmmmmmm... have you posted in many other atheist threads yet?
You know if some book of Fables, some collection not unlike Aesop's Tome can get you through the day, wonderful. If you can honestly and with all your heart believe that there is some all powerful, loving caring cosmic Zombie out there with your best interests in mind? Fantastic. If you really truly believe this to be true?
I applaud you, sincerely. Without any proof, no evidence, no tangible physical proof you can surrender to this higher power I in fact do envy you to some extent. What a marvelous comfort it must be regardless of validity, to truly believe there is someone always watching over you. Must be relief as well to have something there to alleviate your responsibility in making big decisions, life changing steps.
Current Church crowds are so packed full of folks slugging around going through the motions believing that this will somehow quell the fear of death, fear of the shadows, the fears that spawned the worlds religions in the first place. No real faith left... Going through the motions, espousing loudly your deep seeded Faith in an attempt to convince yourself you actually believe is just foolhardy, and if you look around you will see the herds of fools, every church has them just look around, you can see mens hearts and minds if you just look.
I can never get around the control aspects of the modern and more importantly the primitive church. There was a piece I read the other day comparing a religion and god with an abusive father figure... It's relevant and spot on.
We are taught that this is how things are and it's horribly frightening to folks to consider for even a moment that they are truly alone. Unless you've faced it yourself since childhood, the stark realization, sitting there watching a "Man of God" and realizing that he's just some dude in a robe, a man who's had some minor training and is probably a fine person and father but hardly a mouthpiece for a mysterious "almighty". So sitting there as a child, wondering why everyone is busy playing make believe is a startling and frightening thing. Watching a Mass go through the motions, eating imaginary flesh and drinking imaginary blood as if some sort of cannibalism has a role in being a good Christian... The control religion has over peoples lives, the damage "faith" has done to human development is what's really scary. Logical thought ceases, everything turns over to an infantile, ingrained "faith" response that replaces logic when under pressure. Causes folks to judge, be "holier than thou", and stick damn little fish on their trunk lids....
Cause Faith is a Bumper sticker after all, a Badge in this country a way of "fitting in" and following the herd cause therein lies safety...
It all comes down to fear, ALL OF IT religion in it's many forms, preys on it. It reaches into your core where the deepest darkest fears live and buries itself deep. Then no longer content to assuage your fears of the night and dark, NO NO, MAN has to heap more fear on the pile to keep the other man inline. HELL, Pestilence, Heresy, Torture, all to make damn sure that MAN never gets off his knees, throws off his mental chains, stands on his own and gives death the FINGER...
Here's the bit I read awhile back that really hit home (Internet Infidels)... Cheers Folks. (I know I missed easter this year, I'm a little late)
Sabine is comparing God quite effectively to an abusive father figure.
<div class="iF-Passage"><div class="QUOTEHEAD">Quote:[/Quote]<div class="QUOTE clearfix"><span class="quoteBegin"> </span>
Sabine Grant : Very good topic, Penguin. This is how I evaluate the cause of the "moral deferring" patterns among many theists : as the result of a co dependent relationship with an abusive personality (God of the Bible). Such deity is portrayed as a father figure using fear, shame and guilt to prompt a dependency response from his "children". Such "children" become convinced that :
1) they cannot survive without relating to their "Father".
2) they experience fear, guilt and shame as a "good thing" and a propeller towards meeting the expectations of their "Father".
3) meeting the expectations of their "Father" is to be the focus of their lives( God's Will).
4) Such focus impairs them from questioning the validity (moral aspect) of their God's expectations.
5)Their own conscience is numbed by the repetitive claims of the abusive personality that they are deficient and unworthy of validation (the "filthy rags")
6) The abusive personality manipulates them into believing that his actions are motivated by the intention to "do what is best for them". Repetitive claims of " I do this because I love you".
7) The co dependent party is driven to even protect and justify the actions of his/her god ( Apologetics).
You look at the above and will find the same dysfunctional traits commonly found in human abusive relationships. The co dependent child of an abusive personality parent equally will attempt to justify the intentions, motivations and actions of the parent. Equally will defer to the parent the exclusive right to exercise moral judgments. The primary fear is to fail to earn/deserve/ merit the love of such parent.
I will note here that my own process of great distancing from conventional Christianity/theism was triggered by my discovering my potential apart from any god, a process which allowed me to affirm and self validate my capacity to exercise my own moral judgments. Inevitably, such exercise led to drastic clashing between the claims of absolute morality communicated by the God of the Bible and my own conscience. I thus do not defer moral judgments to any authority figure as I have built an acute sense of self confidence and self esteem and self reliance to validate my own.[/quote]
Current Church crowds are so packed full of folks slugging around going through the motions believing that this will somehow quell the fear of death, fear of the shadows, the fears that spawned the worlds religions in the first place. No real faith left... Going through the motions, espousing loudly your deep seeded Faith in an attempt to convince yourself you actually believe is just foolhardy, and if you look around you will see the herds of fools, every church has them just look around, you can see mens hearts and minds if you just look.
I can never get around the control aspects of the modern and more importantly the primitive church. There was a piece I read the other day comparing a religion and god with an abusive father figure... It's relevant and spot on.
We are taught that this is how things are and it's horribly frightening to folks to consider for even a moment that they are truly alone. Unless you've faced it yourself since childhood, the stark realization, sitting there watching a "Man of God" and realizing that he's just some dude in a robe, a man who's had some minor training and is probably a fine person and father but hardly a mouthpiece for a mysterious "almighty". So sitting there as a child, wondering why everyone is busy playing make believe is a startling and frightening thing. Watching a Mass go through the motions, eating imaginary flesh and drinking imaginary blood as if some sort of cannibalism has a role in being a good Christian... The control religion has over peoples lives, the damage "faith" has done to human development is what's really scary. Logical thought ceases, everything turns over to an infantile, ingrained "faith" response that replaces logic when under pressure. Causes folks to judge, be "holier than thou", and stick damn little fish on their trunk lids....
Cause Faith is a Bumper sticker after all, a Badge in this country a way of "fitting in" and following the herd cause therein lies safety...
Here's the bit I read awhile back that really hit home (Internet Infidels)... Cheers Folks. (I know I missed easter this year, I'm a little late)
Sabine is comparing God quite effectively to an abusive father figure.
<div class="iF-Passage"><div class="QUOTEHEAD">Quote:[/Quote]<div class="QUOTE clearfix"><span class="quoteBegin"> </span>
Sabine Grant : Very good topic, Penguin. This is how I evaluate the cause of the "moral deferring" patterns among many theists : as the result of a co dependent relationship with an abusive personality (God of the Bible). Such deity is portrayed as a father figure using fear, shame and guilt to prompt a dependency response from his "children". Such "children" become convinced that :
1) they cannot survive without relating to their "Father".
2) they experience fear, guilt and shame as a "good thing" and a propeller towards meeting the expectations of their "Father".
3) meeting the expectations of their "Father" is to be the focus of their lives( God's Will).
4) Such focus impairs them from questioning the validity (moral aspect) of their God's expectations.
5)Their own conscience is numbed by the repetitive claims of the abusive personality that they are deficient and unworthy of validation (the "filthy rags")
6) The abusive personality manipulates them into believing that his actions are motivated by the intention to "do what is best for them". Repetitive claims of " I do this because I love you".
7) The co dependent party is driven to even protect and justify the actions of his/her god ( Apologetics).
You look at the above and will find the same dysfunctional traits commonly found in human abusive relationships. The co dependent child of an abusive personality parent equally will attempt to justify the intentions, motivations and actions of the parent. Equally will defer to the parent the exclusive right to exercise moral judgments. The primary fear is to fail to earn/deserve/ merit the love of such parent.
I will note here that my own process of great distancing from conventional Christianity/theism was triggered by my discovering my potential apart from any god, a process which allowed me to affirm and self validate my capacity to exercise my own moral judgments. Inevitably, such exercise led to drastic clashing between the claims of absolute morality communicated by the God of the Bible and my own conscience. I thus do not defer moral judgments to any authority figure as I have built an acute sense of self confidence and self esteem and self reliance to validate my own.[/quote]
and that isnt even what it says.
I can tolerate to an extent a "non-christian" mis quoting the Word of God....but when a "Christian" does it...that
DONT BE ONE OF THE CHRISTIANS KEN IS TALKING ABOUT
hehehehee relax. it's an old joke tween rev and I from years ago. and that is what is says but out of context - like some many athiests take it and run with it "It's IN the bible! What kind of GOD wants you to smash babies on rocks? ? ? " Sure, but read the WHOLE thing and understand WHY that was said that way. what annoys me is that people would pick apart something whole and run with just a PART of the expressed idea. There's a whole other back story no one's heard of
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage....ion=65;
Rev, what was that FLAMING SWORD verse you used to have in your sig?
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage....ion=65;
Rev, what was that FLAMING SWORD verse you used to have in your sig?
yes the story stems from the babalonians who did that to the babies of jeruselum. and they asked of God to avenge them in the same manner.
I'm glad you cleared it up. It was easy to not understand your joke there.
Deuteronomy 21:20
'They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard."'
Deuteronomy 21:21
'All the men of the town must then stone him to death. You must banish this evil from among you.'
[/quote]
Or how about this lovely little gem, lets stone the rapist (I'm in) but then lets also stone the the victim if she lives in town for she did not cry out loud enough... Or <div class="iF-Passage"><div class="QUOTEHEAD">Quote:[/Quote]<div class="QUOTE clearfix"><span class="quoteBegin"> </span>
Deuteronomy 22
'She must marry the rapist, because he has violated her. And so long as he lives, he may not divorce her.'[/quote]
Which must be lovely being married to the man who raped you.
And this is the sort of twisted stuff that shows the hand of MAN using fear to control through the pages of a book... <div class="iF-Passage"><div class="QUOTEHEAD">Quote:[/Quote]<div class="QUOTE clearfix"><span class="quoteBegin"> </span>
Deuteronomy 13:1-10
1If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
2And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
3Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
4Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
5And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.
6If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
7Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
8Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
9But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
10And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. [/quote]
So be certain to KILL ANYONE, who has an original thought or idea. Murder ANYONE who claims to be a prophet... Interesting...
All in all smashing babies... Just part of the daily routine, just remember you cannot smash the babies you have to let the stones do that for you...
My favorite bit of this is still the detailed menu items. If this isn't a book written by man out of his own need to control his population and keep them serving his needs, keep them from eating something "icky" I dunno what is.
<div class="iF-Passage"><div class="QUOTEHEAD">Quote:[/Quote]<div class="QUOTE clearfix"><span class="quoteBegin"> </span>
Deuteronomy 14
1Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.
2For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.
3Thou shalt not eat any abominable thing.
4These are the beasts which ye shall eat: the ox, the sheep, and the goat,
5The hart, and the roebuck, and the fallow deer, and the wild goat, and the pygarg, and the wild ox, and the chamois.
6And every beast that parteth the hoof, and cleaveth the cleft into two claws, and cheweth the cud among the beasts, that ye shall eat.
7Nevertheless these ye shall not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel, and the hare, and the coney: for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof; therefore they are unclean unto you.
8And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.
9These ye shall eat of all that are in the waters: all that have fins and scales shall ye eat:
10And whatsoever hath not fins and scales ye may not eat; it is unclean unto you.
11Of all clean birds ye shall eat.
12But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
13And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind,
14And every raven after his kind,
15And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
16The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan,
17And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant,
18And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
19And every creeping thing that flieth is unclean unto you: they shall not be eaten.
20But of all clean fowls ye may eat.
21Ye shall not eat of anything that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is in thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto an alien: for thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.
22Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
23And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
24And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
25Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
26And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household, [/quote]
Sorry I'm late WWJD, I was busy fending Christians off my sacrificial Chicken. I told the wife that KFC was a poor substitute. But What are you going to do? PITA being the freaky Nazi's that they are...
The problem is that a Passage out of context while possibly misleading can still be clearly evil and indicative of the authors mindset while in context. Sure you can say "hey that's out of context" but much of what I'll extract has no context in which it ISN'T twisted and sick... Though it is usually swept quietly under the rug along with dozen of other books of the bible... They are right there next to the pedophile priests, and the evil wealth hoarding papacy...WWJD @ Mar. 26 2008 said:
Oh Oh the flaming sword... I dunno I have to find it...
Sad....
gods here... get your gods here .. come on down... on sale today.. special price .. all gods must go
http://www.godchecker.com/
http://www.godchecker.com/
No No, I C&Pd the Abusive Father Argument otherwise that's all me. You know I cite my sources.so... the bible should not mention ANY death, ANY suffering, ANY persecution or ANY of that? that would kinda disconnect it from the reality that real people live in wouldn't it?
you're other post is too big to read! Are you just C&P-ing that stuff? ?
I am not saying that the bible shouldn't mention any of that, I am saying that to believe that what's written in those passages is somehow divine is rather odd and delusional. Or something like that.
Thrasher, What exactly is "sad"? Thanks for your valuable and insightful post.
Whats sad?Thrasher, What exactly is "sad"? Thanks for your valuable and insightful post.
Life..
Humans in general
how humans in general regardless of their beleifs or un beliefs can be so close minded.
The inability for humans to effectivley communicate with each other
Prejudice
Bias's
None of this points to any one person, or any individual post. just a generalization of the human condition as a whole..
Just.... sad
Similar threads
