dcnblues
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Raised the rear now there's more tire slip
- Thread starter Cruising180
- Start date
Aim to please sir. I think that was what @sixpack577 was getting at as well... where is the hugs emoji
This is quite a good thread for raising the headstock / lowering the forks @jcornwell101 has a good trick for it. Lift up the plastic spacer between the handle bars and the head stock with a feeler gauge or the like to get a sight across the top of the upper clamp to make sure you don't go too far down. I provide some tips for getting the fasteners back to the right torque if you can't get a torque wrench in there.
Yes everything is in clicks out. One click = 0.25 of a turn for the adjusters that don't have clickers. Font preload would just be max for you and me (remember to back it off a nudge after you hit max to prevent bind). Rear preload really needs to be set via dynamic sag only. Two notches on the lock rings (1/5th of a turn) is roughly 1mm dynamic.
At 240lbs you could try copying my settings and maybe one more click of rear compression only go more compression on the front if you are still bottoming out your cable tie. (bottom out is 5mm above the lower bracket) Even still try reducing rebound before you go more front compression than 2CO. Then lower the forks 5-6mm and run 35-38mm rear sag with the lift links in and see how that goes for you. Then maybe do front springs and new tires at the same time?
Do you think we should start a thread for people to share their suspension settings like in that table?
Cruising180
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I think a running thread with peoples settings including their weight would be a great reference to have. If for no other reason you can go back on here and see what your settings are instead of trying to keep track of a notebook. BTW here's where my preload is right now. I can't really measure the sag in the back by myself like I can the front. I took one click of rebound out front and rear last night and she felt a little better on the way to work this morning.Aim to please sir. I think that was what @sixpack577 was getting at as well... where is the hugs emoji
This is quite a good thread for raising the headstock / lowering the forks @jcornwell101 has a good trick for it. Lift up the plastic spacer between the handle bars and the head stock with a feeler gauge or the like to get a sight across the top of the upper clamp to make sure you don't go too far down. I provide some tips for getting the fasteners back to the right torque if you can't get a torque wrench in there.
Yes everything is in clicks out. One click = 0.25 of a turn for the adjusters that don't have clickers. Font preload would just be max for you and me (remember to back it off a nudge after you hit max to prevent bind). Rear preload really needs to be set via dynamic sag only. Two notches on the lock rings (1/5th of a turn) is roughly 1mm dynamic.
At 240lbs you could try copying my settings and maybe one more click of rear compression only go more compression on the front if you are still bottoming out your cable tie. (bottom out is 5mm above the lower bracket) Even still try reducing rebound before you go more front compression than 2CO. Then lower the forks 5-6mm and run 35-38mm rear sag with the lift links in and see how that goes for you. Then maybe do front springs and new tires at the same time?
Do you think we should start a thread for people to share their suspension settings like in that table?
At a guess you would have pretty much 0 static sag with ~7 turns? MoTool Slacker | General Bike Related Topics this is definitely worth the spend. Saves so much time.
Cruising180
Registered
So in my experimenting over the weekend I learned a couple things. My rebound is too slow due to the leading edge of the tread being lower that the back on the rear tire, the front seems to be pretty much spot on. Also that these wild temperature swings play hell with tire pressures. 60* to 80* made the rear go from 38psi cold to 45psi hot. once I got everything sorted I was very happy with the results. I'm also figuring out that I don't care for the S22's. I'm sure they are a great tire but I want something that's not so temperamental. I see a set of Road 6's in my future. That's the road I'm doing my testing on.
Thats just ridiculous. The manufacturers cold tire pressure covers all that. He completely ignores the fact that the motorcycle manufacturer recommends different pressures front and rear. Tires are different size and do different things, but he knows more than the factory?
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dcnblues
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A) yes, and B) it's not about knowledge. It's about lawyers covering their asses. If you are riding with a passenger and the tire is under any kind of duress from performance or road conditions, the lawyers make them recommend a pressure sufficient for those conditions. Also isn't the manufacturer's recommended pressure clearly stated to be maximum (do not exceed) pressure? I'm pretty sure it is.
Hmm, unless you are in a league where you have everything custom made for you, running a mass production manufactures recommended anything is often dangerously miss-configured, especially on a motorcycle, unless you have had your self adjusted to become a manufactures recommended customer and even then you will be set up for maximum compromise out of the box. Mass production manufactures only provide a canvass. Your job is to complete the painting.. unless you are Robert Ryman..
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FYI, tyre pressures will increase ~1% for each 5C increase in temperature so you can check the OAT on the dash to calibrate when setting cold pressures once you are getting to within a PSI or two of your use case requirements.
OK. Sure. what is "1% for each 5C"? Do you mean 1 psi per 5degree Celsius?
Also tire pressure increase depends on the tire used and whether you are running Straight Nitrogen or not. Different tires will have different running temp changes on the same bike.
It's really not worth the discussion as many people are better informed that the engineers who design the bikes when it comes to everything from motor oil, tire pressures, spark plugs, filters, etc...
I have had 65 bikes so far, always go by oem settings and fluids, never had an issue.
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Nitrogen Truths and Myths
Lately there seems to be more and more hype about nitrogen gas for tires offered by tire companies and nitrogen services. Some services will "purge" your tires of air and replace it with near pure nitrogen for $20 per tire. Some tire shops are charging as much as $5 -10 per tire to fill them...
powertank.com
cheers
ken
dcnblues
Registered
Great info! I was considering taking the bike to my nearby Costco that has a tire shop attached. They have air pumps for members which only pump nitrogen, FYI. But after reading that info page I'm not going to bother.Nitrogen Truths and Myths
Lately there seems to be more and more hype about nitrogen gas for tires offered by tire companies and nitrogen services. Some services will "purge" your tires of air and replace it with near pure nitrogen for $20 per tire. Some tire shops are charging as much as $5 -10 per tire to fill them...
cheers
ken
TallTom
Registered
I think sixpack pointed you in the right direction. A lot of us have a lot of experience. Enough to know we can't say OK click 2 clicks out and you're good to go.
And to add to this-many of us live in different climates.....tire pressure settings will be different in New Mexico in July than it will be here in Canada for instance......we get hot weather too but not on that scale....
And a person's riding style will set what tire pressure to use as well....lots of two up-more pressure...solo canyon carvers will use a different pressure....
It has to be custom set for the intended purpose...
Cruising180
Registered
I asked a specific question about a specific mod and got the generic blanket suspension answer. I wasn't asking a general set up question. I have lots of experience myself but none with this platform. I can tell you if you raise the rear 5mm on a 5th gen vfr you're going to want to add a half turn of preload in the front and may need to back rebound off on the rear a quarter turn, start there. On a 2002 on Blackbird I can give similar suggestions. Either way Flows came in with the info I was looking for.
TallTom
Registered
Then you know that a lot depends on your weight, intended use of bike, and conditions you will be using it in. Mountains vs desert terrain as an example. Passengers expected?
In an effort to build a bridge, and respectfully offer a candid warning:
There is a valid and fair warning in this, essentially of 'fix it 'till it breaks' and 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing'
The tension surrounding fluids, plugs and pressures discussions is well approached in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert M. Pirsig. To participate in philosophy (the love of knowledge) or preserve ones ignorance (and innocence). Most of us start our mechanical journeys on those simple tasks and so must pass through this knowledge dilemma.
In a community like this many of us are very good engineers in our own right and some of us look upon engineers with bafflement. When choosing our level of engagement with a machine we must understand that Engineering does not have the last say these days especially Design. It is usually Finance and Marketing and now more than ever ESG. The 'Directors Cut' of the Gen 3 Busa would almost certainly have had Ohlins, maybe sifter front springs, Brembo MCs, Metzeler 01 SEs or Rosso Corsas and 200hp.
@wiso, I assume you did not use factory fluids and settings on your track or motocross bikes? With factory fluids and settings you will have have experienced the issue of tyre slip at some point or premature bearing wear if one of them was a ZX14.
The engineers that build in adjustment into their platforms intend for owners to adjust them to match their ergos and use case of which all of us are vastly better informed.
Our mutual associate @Cruising180 has told us that his riding style is twisties with some quite wide temperature deltas, shown us the exact road he is using for testing and that he is still on the 'Commercials' driven OEM S22 tyres. If your advice to him is to doubt the wisdom of someone that has had thousands of different bikes to work on with the specialist goal of helping owners adjust them correctly (Dave Moss) and to just run 42 42 cold because 'Legal said', I'm sorry but that, my good man, is downright dangerous advice.
In spite of this and knowledge dilemma we all have to face, @Cruising180 you seem to me to have used the collective intelligence of the group very well and made up your own mind so thank you for the thread. Keep them coming, would love to see where you get to with the bike in the end.
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dcnblues
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Good post, and great book. If only more people read the sequel, Lila, which is two or three times better (on the intellectual stuff. The travelogue not so much as it's not motorcycles it's a sailboat trip with a crazy woman).
Cruising180
Registered
I'll own my part of the animosity, perceived or otherwise here. @sixpack577 I do apologize for the way I came back at you. I need to remember this isn't FB and we're all adults here. It was a combination of frustration with the bike damn near kicking me off and shortened attention span fueled by me wanting to figure it out now. I've forgotten how active forums actually work. So again I do apologize for my curt and unnecessary responses Thank you again @Flows and @sixpack577 as well as everyone else that's offered help.
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