Raised the rear now there's more tire slip

[Cruising180]

I'm not sure if this is just a perceived thing, I'm leaning more now, if I need to adjust the rear suspension softer or what. I've noticed since I raised the rear of the bike an inch with the Shnitz raising links I've been getting more of a slip/slide out of the rear tire. For more context. I usually noticed it after either just leaving to go to work in the morning or just leaving to go home after work. Both turns are 90* one right one left. It's been cold. 40* in the morning and warmer in the evening 60*-70* but I'll get that "wiggle" of the slip then grip then slip then grip pretty consistently. Now I'm not familiar with the S22s, I had Road 5's on my FZ-10 and never had this kind of thing happen. So is this just the the Bridgestones hate the cold? Do I need to adjust something with the suspension? I did add some preload to the front after riding with the bike raised because I was getting a noticeable more amount of dive when braking after the ass lift lol. Sp what do you guys think?
TIA

 

[Vanishing Point]

More INFO in >: Raising links clarification / Handling | Gen 3 Busa Information

 

[WuzzaCBXRider]

Cold tires cold pavement, happens when turning and accelerating…whaddyuthink is the issue?

 

[sixpack577]

You only installed rear rising links, which have put more weight on the front wheel, and in turn taken weight off of the rear wheel, by changing the rake.
And you have not made any adjustments to the suspension to compensate for it.
The wheelspin is the exact and expected result of that.
You need to measure your sag/preload, front and rear, and see where you're.
There needs to be a front/rear balance too, to get not twitchy, but no wheelspin.

 

[Cruising180]

I'm aware of that. I was asking because I'm not the first to have done this and was asking for some actual guidance like "you're going to need to add about this much preload here and take out that much there" kind of thing. I know the basics of setting up suspension. What's the point of a forum with 25 years of experience if you can't tap into all that experience?

 

[sixpack577]

I'm aware of that. I was asking because I'm not the first to have done this and was asking for some actual guidance like "you're going to need to add about this much preload here and take out that much there" kind of thing. I know the basics of setting up suspension. What's the point of a forum with 25 years of experience if you can't tap into all that experience?

I simply said that you need to measure your preload for a baseline first.
There is no magic one size fits all recomendation
There isn't much Gen3 info on the subject, aside from the link above.
The gen2 is very similiar, so start there.
I won't comment on your posts anymore.
Good luck with it.

 

[wiso]

You need to warm up the tires before you ride..

 

[Kiwi Rider]

I'm aware of that. I was asking because I'm not the first to have done this and was asking for some actual guidance like "you're going to need to add about this much preload here and take out that much there" kind of thing. I know the basics of setting up suspension. What's the point of a forum with 25 years of experience if you can't tap into all that experience?

Wow . . . you could try using the search function . .
@sixpack577 was just trying to help but I guess that's not a thing any longer . .

 

[dcnblues]

I'm aware of that. I was asking because I'm not the first to have done this and was asking for some actual guidance like "you're going to need to add about this much preload here and take out that much there" kind of thing. I know the basics of setting up suspension. What's the point of a forum with 25 years of experience if you can't tap into all that experience?

My first thought is tire pressure. For a long time I was pretty stupid and kept the pressure higher than I should have to stretch mileage. Now I'm going with 34 PSI cold front and rear and the S22s are damn near perfect on warm roads.
Another piece of good wisdom I got from YouTube was that weaving the bike side to side can clean stuff off the sides of your tires, but does nothing to warm them up. To do so, you need some rapid acceleration and deceleration. That can help.
I had all of the suspension setup by a pro before I raised the rear with the same links you're using, and I haven't felt the need to adjust anything. Bike feels ridiculously good, and I'm not bottoming the zip tie on the front tube.
I was shocked at my first track School when everybody lowered their tire pressure to 30. Tires can go lower than most people think is my impression.

 

[wiso]

Why did you raise the rear?

 

[zeepopo2]

Why did you raise the rear?

Yolo

 

[Cruising180]

My first thought is tire pressure. For a long time I was pretty stupid and kept the pressure higher than I should have to stretch mileage. Now I'm going with 34 PSI cold front and rear and the S22s are damn near perfect on warm roads.
Another piece of good wisdom I got from YouTube was that weaving the bike side to side can clean stuff off the sides of your tires, but does nothing to warm them up. To do so, you need some rapid acceleration and deceleration. That can help.
I had all of the suspension setup by a pro before I raised the rear with the same links you're using, and I haven't felt the need to adjust anything. Bike feels ridiculously good, and I'm not bottoming the zip tie on the front tube.
I was shocked at my first track School when everybody lowered their tire pressure to 30. Tires can go lower than most people think is my impression.

I checked the pressures and guess what. When I last added air the week before is was in the low 30's outside. So when I checked them Saturday the rear was at 44psi and the front was at 40psi. The temp was in the low 70's. I lowered the pressures to 38psi front and back but haven't been able to get out since it pretty much rained all weekend.

The main point of this post was to ask if the modification could be contributing to this and if there was a suspension adjustment needed. Second I was making a comparison between the Road 5's I had on my FZ-10 and the S22s on this bike.

 

[Cruising180]

Why did you raise the rear?

Quicker steering. I'm not a drag racer. I prefer the corners.

 

[Cruising180]

Wow . . . you could try using the search function . .
@sixpack577 was just trying to help but I guess that's not a thing any longer . .
View attachment 1680301

I did search and if you'll go dcnblues thread that was linked above I'd already commented on it way before I made this post.

 

[Flows]

I'm not sure if this is just a perceived thing, I'm leaning more now, if I need to adjust the rear suspension softer or what. I've noticed since I raised the rear of the bike an inch with the Shnitz raising links I've been getting more of a slip/slide out of the rear tire. For more context. I usually noticed it after either just leaving to go to work in the morning or just leaving to go home after work. Both turns are 90* one right one left. It's been cold. 40* in the morning and warmer in the evening 60*-70* but I'll get that "wiggle" of the slip then grip then slip then grip pretty consistently. Now I'm not familiar with the S22s, I had Road 5's on my FZ-10 and never had this kind of thing happen. So is this just the the Bridgestones hate the cold? Do I need to adjust something with the suspension? I did add some preload to the front after riding with the bike raised because I was getting a noticeable more amount of dive when braking after the ass lift lol. Sp what do you guys think?
TIA

Welcome to the dark art of suspension tuning Crusing. Yes the OEM Bridgestone's are no where near as good the Michelins cold. I put Road 6s on mine and scrubbed them in from new to the edges in the cold and pouring rain! They are really quite something. In theory one other thing that happens besides weight transfer when you raise the rear with linkages is the swing arm geometry changes so you get more anti-squat which means power is delivered to the rear more abruptly and further raises the rear under acceleration etc.

The Busas are generally too heavy on the nose and their front springs are too light as compared with the rear, they also already have a steep rake so in general the raising we do front and rear is to improve ground clearance and rather than steepen the rake.
Have you noticed that your pro steer has become non-linear by lean angle after the rear raise?
The next thing I need is stiffer front springs to raise the front 10mm at least with a shim stack to match. Then I would look at a rear shock with adjustable length for rear geometry control.

Hope that helps.

Are you able to put a table together like this for us so we can see all the variables? These are my latest.

Weight	95kg rider geared, half tank.
Suspension Oil	7000 Ks
Tyres	1000ks on 120/70 190/55 Michelin Road 6 (9.5mm rear raise over the /50 OEM S22s)
Riding Style	Twisties / Track

Setting	Value
Front Preload / Dynamic Sag	Max / 46mm
Front Rebound	4 on road, 5 on track
Front Compression	2
Rear Preload / Dynamic Sag	4.1 thread showing / 29mm
Rear Rebound	3 could look at 2 due trailing edge tire wear (shock is heated by engine so should be tested hot)
Rear Compression	7
Front raise	Dropped forks 6mm to flush with top clamp
Rear raise	Standard (I do not want the rear any higher than what the /55 tyre is giving me for the track without raising the front further and that is maxed out)
Calculated Rake	22.4° (Note the legendary Gixer K5-6 is 23.45° 96mm and the Gen 3 Busa is steeper at 23° 90mm)
Front Tire Pressure Cold	Road 35.5 Cold 15C Track 30 Cold 15C
Rear Tire Pressure Cold	Road 36.5 Cold 15C Track 30 Cold 15C

 

[Kiwi Rider]

Welcome to the dark art of suspension tuning Crusing. Yes the OEM Bridgestone's are no where near as good the Michelins cold. I put Road 6s on mine and scrubbed them in from new to the edges in the cold and pouring rain! They are really quite something. In theory one other thing that happens besides weight transfer when you raise the rear with linkages is the swing arm geometry changes so you get more anti-squat which means power is delivered to the rear more abruptly and further raises the rear under acceleration etc.

The Busas are generally too heavy on the nose and their front springs are too light as compared with the rear, they also already have a steep rake so in general the raising we do front and rear is to improve ground clearance and rather than steepen the rake.
Have you noticed that your pro steer has become non-linear by lean angle after the rear raise?
The next thing I need is stiffer front springs to raise the front 10mm at least with a shim stack to match. Then I would look at a rear shock with adjustable length for rear geometry control.

Hope that helps.

Are you able to put a table together like this for us so we can see all the variables? These are my latest.

Weight	95kg rider geared, half tank.
Suspension Oil	7000 Ks
Tyres	1000ks on 120/70 190/55 Michelin Road 6 (9.5mm rear raise over the /50 OEM S22s)
Riding Style	Twisties / Track

Setting	Value
Front Preload / Dynamic Sag	Max / 46mm
Front Rebound	4 on road, 5 on track
Front Compression	2
Rear Preload / Dynamic Sag	4.1 thread showing / 29mm
Rear Rebound	3 could look at 2 due trailing edge tire wear (shock is heated by engine so should be tested hot)
Rear Compression	7
Front raise	Dropped forks 6mm to flush with top clamp
Rear raise	Standard (I do not want the rear any higher than what the /55 tyre is giving me for the track without raising the front further and that is maxed out)
Calculated Rake	22.4° (Note the legendary Gixer K5-6 is 23.45° 96mm and the Gen 3 Busa is steeper at 23° 90mm)
Front Tire Pressure Cold	Road 35.5 Cold 15C Track 30 Cold 15C
Rear Tire Pressure Cold	Road 36.5 Cold 15C Track 30 Cold 15C

Wow . . that's a pretty awesome chart ya got there mate.
I'm going to do the same for my own reference stats, really comprehensive!
Thanks!

 

[dcnblues]

I checked the pressures and guess what. When I last added air the week before is was in the low 30's outside. So when I checked them Saturday the rear was at 44psi and the front was at 40psi. The temp was in the low 70's. I lowered the pressures to 38psi front and back but haven't been able to get out since it pretty much rained all weekend.

The main point of this post was to ask if the modification could be contributing to this and if there was a suspension adjustment needed. Second I was making a comparison between the Road 5's I had on my FZ-10 and the S22s on this bike.

44 PSI in cold weather is basically zero rear traction. Again, while I would like to have a pro look at my suspension setup now, everything still feels great if not better after the raising links.
I would lower that tire pressure down to 34 cold, and the first thing on my ride, on straight dry pavement, I'd do a couple of hard accelerations up to 40 45 mph and hard braking back down to zero. That would heat up the tires a little.
My impression is those michelins are very different from a softer sport tire. Apples and oranges unless you switch to his same model tire.
You're going to love your motorcycle even more once the roads warm up...

PS if you really want the pro from Dover, watch this guy's videos or even sign up for a 30 minute video consult for I think 80 bucks? He's got a tire pressure video where he tells you how to chart your results for optimal feel...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYmOGL8b_-UeV7U10_48rqw

 

[Flows]

He's got a tire pressure video where he tells you how to chart your results for optimal feel...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYmOGL8b_-UeV7U10_48rqw

Hey @dcnblues do you know which video covers this?
+1 for this BTW I recently did a full day ride and tune course with him.

 

[Cruising180]

Welcome to the dark art of suspension tuning Crusing. Yes the OEM Bridgestone's are no where near as good the Michelins cold. I put Road 6s on mine and scrubbed them in from new to the edges in the cold and pouring rain! They are really quite something. In theory one other thing that happens besides weight transfer when you raise the rear with linkages is the swing arm geometry changes so you get more anti-squat which means power is delivered to the rear more abruptly and further raises the rear under acceleration etc.

The Busas are generally too heavy on the nose and their front springs are too light as compared with the rear, they also already have a steep rake so in general the raising we do front and rear is to improve ground clearance and rather than steepen the rake.
Have you noticed that your pro steer has become non-linear by lean angle after the rear raise?
The next thing I need is stiffer front springs to raise the front 10mm at least with a shim stack to match. Then I would look at a rear shock with adjustable length for rear geometry control.

Hope that helps.

Are you able to put a table together like this for us so we can see all the variables? These are my latest.

Weight	95kg rider geared, half tank.
Suspension Oil	7000 Ks
Tyres	1000ks on 120/70 190/55 Michelin Road 6 (9.5mm rear raise over the /50 OEM S22s)
Riding Style	Twisties / Track

Setting	Value
Front Preload / Dynamic Sag	Max / 46mm
Front Rebound	4 on road, 5 on track
Front Compression	2
Rear Preload / Dynamic Sag	4.1 thread showing / 29mm
Rear Rebound	3 could look at 2 due trailing edge tire wear (shock is heated by engine so should be tested hot)
Rear Compression	7
Front raise	Dropped forks 6mm to flush with top clamp
Rear raise	Standard (I do not want the rear any higher than what the /55 tyre is giving me for the track without raising the front further and that is maxed out)
Calculated Rake	22.4° (Note the legendary Gixer K5-6 is 23.45° 96mm and the Gen 3 Busa is steeper at 23° 90mm)
Front Tire Pressure Cold	Road 35.5 Cold 15C Track 30 Cold 15C
Rear Tire Pressure Cold	Road 36.5 Cold 15C Track 30 Cold 15C

SEE, that's what I'm talking about! That makes perfect sense. If you'll notice in the other thread I had mentioned that I wasn't sure I was going to keep the rear raised because the handling feels far less neutral now. I'm already too heavy for the front springs at 240lbs so I knew I needed to change those out but it hadn't occurred to me to raise the front to lessen the rake angle. For the riding I typically do I'm going to throw a set of Road 6's on when the rear wears out. So with raising the forks it will need shimmed internally? I'll talk to my buddy that has a shop about how big of a job that'll be and in the meantime I may just go back to stock height in rear until I can set the front up correctly. Couple of questions. On the compression and rebound settings I'm assuming that's clicks or turns out from full stiff, correct? Thanks again for the info.

 

[Cruising180]

44 PSI in cold weather is basically zero rear traction. Again, while I would like to have a pro look at my suspension setup now, everything still feels great if not better after the raising links.
I would lower that tire pressure down to 34 cold, and the first thing on my ride, on straight dry pavement, I'd do a couple of hard accelerations up to 40 45 mph and hard braking back down to zero. That would heat up the tires a little.
My impression is those michelins are very different from a softer sport tire. Apples and oranges unless you switch to his same model tire.
You're going to love your motorcycle even more once the roads warm up...

PS if you really want the pro from Dover, watch this guy's videos or even sign up for a 30 minute video consult for I think 80 bucks? He's got a tire pressure video where he tells you how to chart your results for optimal feel...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYmOGL8b_-UeV7U10_48rqw

I know lol. The rear was set to 38psi when it was cold outside, about 35* and when it warmed up to 70* outside the tire pressure went up to 44psi. I've watched a lot of Dave Moss' videos. That dude knows his poop.