Pope is against condoms to fight aids.

[Projekt]

It is different because it involves the inborn drive to procreate that is heavily influenced by powerful hormones.
Unlike one of the anti-social acts you illustrated, the ultimate outcome of sexual intercourse, be it sanctified or not, is a natural human function.

As far as the "human nature" argument goes, most of us quell our desires each day. We don't snatch some pinhead out of their vehicle when they cut us off on the highway. We don't take something from someone because we want it. So how is this much different?

 

[Projekt]

His vision was greed. The Catholic church would still be some kind of cult were it not for his action that led to major propagation across the empire.

Alright Constantine , who had a vision accepted Christianity as a religion and was a Christian himself. The Church began way before 324 A.D. and the Roman Empire was extremely cruel to Christians prior to this. Christianity was an underground religion in Rome. You find it easy to slam an enormous number of humans that do nothing but good for humanity because a small number of them have problems. The Church didn't help by attempting to cover this up and buy off victims.

I think they have it right on the family model and the world is proving them right everyday.

 

[afterhours]

i would like to applaud all on taking this discussion in a civilized direction....we know how these subjects can get heated.

 

[Spectre]

It is different because it involves the inborn drive to procreate that is heavily influenced by powerful hormones.
Unlike one of the anti-social acts you illustrated, the ultimate outcome of sexual intercourse, be it sanctified or not, is a natural human function.

i agree that it is a natural human function, but so is a tantrum a child throws. many times a child gets "overloaded" by stimulus and when that happens it comes out all chaotic because they are not emotionally able to process what they are feeling.

the same can be said for a teenager going through puberty. these new feelings and urges coupled with the ever present mood swings are frustrating; but like the tantrums of childhood can be managed.

are the feelings managed? not as much as they could be. the good news is that the teenage pregnancy rate in this country is at its lowest level in 30 years (down 36% since its peak in 1990). According to the U.S. Teenage Pregnancy Statistics the research suggests that increased abstinence has a good bit to do with that (changes in contraceptive practice is noted to have aided in helping lower stats also, but abstinence is given prominence in the American Journal of Public Health reference).

while the church's stand might seem dated why should they sit quietly while the world changes if it's contrary to what they believe?

 

[Dino]

His vision was greed. The Catholic church would still be some kind of cult were it not for his action that led to major propagation across the empire.

This includes comissioning the writing of The Bible.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[Projekt]

They should adapt because the world is not populated exclusively by Catholics. Furthermore, it is the outside influence from "heretics" that draws in change. Communities are affected by the church's reluctance to adapt in this most simple of issues. You talk about the family model being ideal but by not condoning the use of condoms the very result is the destruction of families. Whether it is through life ending illnesses like AIDS or the unwillingness to commit to raising the child by two immature partners, you net the same effect.

while the church's stand might seem dated why should they sit quietly while the world changes if it's contrary to what they believe?

 

[Mr Bogus]

Patient: Doctor it hurts when I do this..

leaves 2 paths...

Doctor: here take this pain killer and knock yourself out.. when that wears off I will give you more..

OR:

Doctor: don't do that then..


Every person/group/civilization has a hill to climb.. there are slips and falls all the time..

I think good leaders need to keep their eye on the target and not get distracted... (seems a lot of successful people are like this no?)

For any religious leader to abdicate to a lower moral standard and patch it with a condom sort of smacks of hypocrisy is all... What is the next step down? Dictate smaller knives when stabbing people so they do not die? I personally am in no position to judge the morality of the statement myself, got enough headaches already..

I am merely understanding his viewpoint... and contrary to what a fellow board member may believe... it has nothing to do with a few bad apples molesting boys in their charge.. Not even sure how that leap was taken... is like condemning all teachers because one trades out with a student for grades..

 

[mrsBusawhipped]

I know in the Bible it is stated "go forth and be fruitful and multiply". I agree with that. I also believe that you are suppose to not be a "burden" on society" either, by multiplying too much. Me personally I don't see a problem with birth control pills and condoms being used in a marriage. I don't believe they should be handed out to children (under 18). In the third world countries where the culture and education of such matters are lacking they should be available. I feel bad for the children who are born to mothers who have aids and they may contract aids as well. Also their laws need to be stricter about people who have aids knowingly having unprotected s#x and spreading the disease. Castrate um! Or put them in a place with others who have aids and don't follow the health laws. I don't feel just anyone with aids should be separated from society. If they are being responsible there is no reason to alienate them.

I hope I have stayed on topic and have not insulted anyone. Good job everyone for keeping this discussion civil.

 

[mike1180]

I can understand the view that if someone deviates from what someone else (or the majority) thinks is a "standard of conduct" then they are responsible for their own consequences.
But.
If we follow that logic out, we can say that we have made traffic laws, and made every single person who drives be educated and pass a test regarding these laws.
So if everyone obeys these laws there should be no accidents, ….so now if you are in a car accident, you are on your own.
You have not obeyed the "standard of conduct" so we will not supply an ambulance, hospital or treatment, and you must do it yourself.
In fact if you, and everyone else were all driving according to the "standard of conduct" then seat belts, air bags etc. would not be needed, so they also will not be provided.
And since everyone is now following these rules, we do not need traffic enforcement, so all of those people can go and do something else.
Really, how well would that work?
We as a population, can't even obey traffic laws and stop from killing ourselves, and yet we expect people who are not as educated as us, (especially in diseases like Aids) and live to an entire different set of morals and values than ours, to now adopt our beliefs and morals and overcome 100 million years of biological drives, or we will just let them get sick and die.

Doesn't seem to fit into what I call my own Christian beliefs.

I also want to thank everyone for the calmness in this thread.
It is a touchy subject and we are all behaving admirably.

I also want to throw in that Aids is spread in a variety of ways other than intercourse.
In a country with 22 million infected people, and less than desirable cleanliness standards, there is a great risk of getting it in a lot of other ways.
And my point is if condoms were used more often, the overall numbers of infected could be reduced, and the odds of getting it from other means would also be diminished.

 

[afterhours]

Patient: Doctor it hurts when I do this..

leaves 2 paths...

Doctor: here take this pain killer and knock yourself out.. when that wears off I will give you more..

OR:

Doctor: don't do that then..


Every person/group/civilization has a hill to climb.. there are slips and falls all the time..

I think good leaders need to keep their eye on the target and not get distracted... (seems a lot of successful people are like this no?)

For any religious leader to abdicate to a lower moral standard and patch it with a condom sort of smacks of hypocrisy is all... What is the next step down? Dictate smaller knives when stabbing people so they do not die? I personally am in no position to judge the morality of the statement myself, got enough headaches already..

I am merely understanding his viewpoint... and contrary to what a fellow board member may believe... it has nothing to do with a few bad apples molesting boys in their charge.. Not even sure how that leap was taken... is like condemning all teachers because one trades out with a student for grades..

we are not talking about a few good or bad apples....we are talking about the leadership. we are talking about the leader of the church taking a position that the protection of criminals is more important than protecting children.....

the reason we, let me re-state...the reason i take this leap is because it shows the hypocrisy of of every pope of the last 100 years. most catholics liek to boil down the churchs position to its simplest form, because it is the easiest to defend...

church is against condoems because, condems promote pre-marital sex, homosexual sex and adultery....

seems simple...so why not use that same stance against pedophile priests?

priest are not married, (pre-marital sex)
priests are men, having sex with young boys(homo sex)

not to mention, the whole "rape" issue......

a priest is in violation of the same laws of god, as people in a third world country...yet they hide, and protect priests...and tell poor at risk odf catching a deadly disease "thats too bad, sinner".

the idea that birth control is bad may have been ok 3000 years ago, when more children meant more help in the fields, helping the family to survive..but in a village in the sudan, or in a shanty town in honduras that is already over populated, were people are already starving it is irresponsible.


does a woman with four kids she cannot feed already really need a fifth? or a sixth

the catholic church, and the pope specifically telling people what to do based on a moral postion.....is like bernie madoff calling AIG execs crooks and opportunists.

 

[djsin]

maybe the people with aids should not be having sex anymore period...unless they use protection, or you can sign a waiver like sambusa uses for his hookers

 

[mike1180]

This guy should know, he is involved at ground zero.

Steven Lewis Former UN evoy for HIV/Aids in Africa:

CBC.ca - Video

 

[Dino]

Patient: Doctor it hurts when I do this..

leaves 2 paths...

Doctor: here take this pain killer and knock yourself out.. when that wears off I will give you more..

OR:

Doctor: don't do that then..


Every person/group/civilization has a hill to climb.. there are slips and falls all the time..

I think good leaders need to keep their eye on the target and not get distracted... (seems a lot of successful people are like this no?)

For any religious leader to abdicate to a lower moral standard and patch it with a condom sort of smacks of hypocrisy is all... What is the next step down? Dictate smaller knives when stabbing people so they do not die? I personally am in no position to judge the morality of the statement myself, got enough headaches already..

I am merely understanding his viewpoint... and contrary to what a fellow board member may believe... it has nothing to do with a few bad apples molesting boys in their charge.. Not even sure how that leap was taken... is like condemning all teachers because one trades out with a student for grades..

His viewpoint? You understand the Pope's viewpoint? So using birthcontrol is lowering a moral standard?

 

[afterhours]

maybe the people with aids should not be having sex anymore period...unless they use protection, or you can sign a waiver like sambusa uses for his Baaaaaaahhhhhh!

some people do not know they have it....some do not care. there are some parts of the world where it is believed that having sex with a virgin will cure you of AIDS...so they rape virgins.

so you have 12 and 13 year old rape victims with AIDS that done nothing wrong to anybody.

this is a very complex issue, and cannot be fixed by 3000 year old policy of "no birth control". i may be wrong but i think more of god than that. this is the god that freed his people from slavery,parted the waters and delivered them across the the red sea....gave them the ten commandments...

and then after all that he gave us his son, to be nailed to a cross and forgive us of our sins to allow us to enter into the kingdom of heaven.

knowing all tht do you really think jesus would rather a person die of AIDS, instead of use a condom?

pedophiles, murderers, even rapists can be forgiven.....but that young girl using a condom must get die....really?