Poor Running - Poorly Gen 1 - Diagnostic and repair

[crash_matt]

Update - Parts Arrived!

So, imagine my frustration - I order the parts, wait forever and even get to the point of ordering a second hand one off Ebay, figuring that way I can be getting on while I wait. Well, no sooner do I place the Ebay order than my parts arrive... hmm.. so now I have a spare pump!? Bound to need a clean when it gets here, but could be handy to have on the shelf. Now to the rebuild...

I had all the o-rings, a new fuel tap, all the filters etc and it was a fairly straightforward job of fitting them into the pump housing with the pump. Not too challenging and no point taking photos to post as frankly any arse-hat can follow an exploded parts diagram so let's not be too insulting.

One I had that all rebuilt I knew that the tank was going to need a scrub - so far I had taken off the fuel tap and that was all. I put it back on and filled the tank with evaporust. Yes, that's right - filled it. Best part of 25 litres - never mind the 21 litre capacity, it just keeps going. I left that overnight and drained it off via the fuel line from the tap. I did pick up some hose clamps for this job and they made it much easier. But do note that it is possible to buy an actual tap that will fit, which would probably be even more helpful.

I didn't get much of a chance to check what was coming out as it was going straight back into the plastic tubs it came in (you can reuse the stuff). It was in there for about 18 hours in total.

I then took out the sender unit and had a poke around with the endoscope. It was clear that there was an improvement BUT there was still sludge and cack in there. Now this is all down to being left with a low fuel level for a long time. For those who don't know (I didn't) the ethanol in the fuel soaks up any water in the tank/air and it turns to a nasty brown sticky mark - this was the stuff on the tank skin. Added to that when I started blasting it through with a jet wash and soapy stuff out come lots of yellow gel/snot. On top of that an absolute ton of flakey cack just kept on coming out.

I threw in some gravel (20 small stones - so I could count them back out) and shook it around, then wished I never had. It's a total c*** to get back out! I spent the next half hour chasing one bit of gravel out, only to then discover after another jet wash that there was another bit in there still hiding! At that point I did debate other approaches to clear things out even more, but the advice was a bit varied and frankly the more I just kept on rinsing and running it through the better it got. That and a bit of finger in the hole...

Anyway, I got the tank to the point of being as clean as it was going to get, dried it out with the compressed air gun and added some WD40 to help tackle the last tiny beads of the wet stuff. During the course of all this the following bits of tank damage occurred:
1) tiny, tiny scratches where it lay upside down on some of the grit that I blasted out.
2) the tank protector (which had been fitted off centre f***in amateur job) cracked and lifted - so I had to take it off revealing tank in need of a clean, rub down and a new pad.
3) the tank was sat upside down on a rag which has soaked up some of the petrol when originally emptied. Unnoticed at the time when I picked it up to start this faff the rag was stuck to the filler cap and when gently pulled it took some of the cap paint off, leaving a bloody mess. Might have to find a replacement or just rub it down and put on one of them sticky things.

Right, back to the job at hand. I put all the parts back on and offered the tank into place above the shiny pump. At this point I have:

• Changed the spark plugs (now on CR9EK as it was all they had in)
• Rebuilt the pump contents
• Cleaned through the injectors using the motion pro injector cleaner
• Renewed the fuel pipes as the words of wisdom were that these like to get kinky and not in a good way - so while I was in there...

Put the whole thing back on, added some fuel to the rebuilt tank and checked for leaks. All holding. Primed the pump and fired the bike up, ran it for a short stint again checking for leaks. Still nothing.
Dropped the tank back into correct position, rebuilt the bike, added more fuel and went for a ride - just a short one. No problems so far and smooth on the power all the way up as far as I could go.

OK - so I am still waiting to use it in anger and to get the thing 'hot' as I know that can contribute, but it may just be fixed....

Fingers crossed all - if there are no more posts I fixed it and forgot to come back. If there are posts below - something has probably not got right or I've got more waffle to share.

Hope this has helped those of you who may be reading it in search of answers for your own dodgy running. At some point I will dare to look at the mountain of receipts and let people know what I spent fixing thing issue! But I'm not ready to cry yet - let me at least get a bit drunk first!

 

[crash_matt]

OH S*IT!

What the hell!? So... great ride out the other day and a good start to today, but then pushed to go up over 7000 and it started to get rough and underpowered again. Not as bad, but not great. Let's back track...

I started the bike on the side stand - it went fine, I pulled it up straight to roll it out and it changed tone and seemed to be lumpy. A couple of throttle blips and it settles back down. OK - thinks I - that's a bit odd.

I take the bike out and it's not exactly smooth and forgiving, not major, just can't get away with being lazy on the clutch so much.

Bike is up to temp and running well, keeping in the lower rev margins and it's shifting some serious pace. Get to a straight and think, right, let's roll on big - nope. Not smooth and consistent. It seems to be getting there, but it definitely isn't quite right. Next thing I notice (when stopped at junctions) is an odd smell coming up from the bike, not one I've noticed before and pretty foul smelling. Perhaps it's just cooking crap off the engine? Perhaps it's the soap soaked sponge under the tank (from all the jet washing) getting up to temp and steaming off?

So, not sure the damn thing is any better after all that money and time. Don't get me wrong I'm glad it's had a good clean through, but where the hell is the problem?
TPS?
Crank sensor?

HELP?!?!?!?!

 

[Berlin Germany]

did you clean the injectors?
did you clean the little filters (little finger nail sized) inside throttle block?

 

[crash_matt]

Evening All, (Well it is in the UK)

So... I've had a chat with a good friend who knows his way round things and he thinks probably TPS too, but I know that @davidoffer had some issues along these lines and it turned out to be other things so I'm not going to get too carried away.

1) Did not take out the filters in the injectors - foolish error, will resolve that asap and probably fit some replacements.
2) Have not got the kit to run a pressure test on the pump and did not replace the pump when rebuilding - so it could in theory be a lack of pressure perhaps?
3) I'm not ruling out the Crankshaft position sensor yet either...

Bloody annoying. Thing is it runs so well in a specific rev window, so I'm wanting to think TPS. I've tested it and it runs from 1.15 to 3.94 on the resistance test which suggests it is only a little off and probably not enough to kill it, what I don't get is why it is such a total death at full throttle... there have to be clues in this that I am missing.

 

[crash_matt]

UPDATE:

Well what a s**t few weeks it has been with no time in the garage at all! Weather has been poor with some freakishly cold snaps too, but the biggest challenge has been just getting through the demands of work and wife!

Now that I've ticked those things off the list I managed to get back out to the garage and thought I would run a simple experiment on the TPS to see if I could find more proof or evidence to support it being the culprit.

I followed the official manual checks for voltage - all fine.

Then back to the resistance readings - not so fine. As I measured before it's stopping at 3.9 rather than getting to 4.5, so I loosened off the securing bolts and twisted it to see what I could get it up to, it pushed over 4, but still not quite hitting the dizzy heights of 4.5 so now I'm thinking that there could be something in this. Check of the throttle mech reveals it is turning to full lock so the issue is not physical/mechanical but electrical. Now of course the little TPS alignment mark on the dash (dealer mode) is out of whack, so I play around with that and deduce (fairly obviously) that this reads the resistance from the unit when throttle is closed, so this will only ever align a dodgy/faulty TPS ready for the low rev range.

So then I get to thinking, why not just play with its position while the bike is running. Fire up the bike and slowly twist the TPS to alter the resistance readings back at ECU. By doing this I can pretty much replicate the crappy running and also shift it out by essentially 'advancing' the TPS. Rolling it back and 'retarding' it gives the same poor power and throttle response I was getting at around 7000rpm. At this point I also have the air filter out and am pleased to see no issues with flap adjustment (another thing I didn't check at the time).

My goal now is to take it for a spin with the TPS as far advanced as I can get it to see if that resistance figure closer to 4.5 will alter the upper end performance. If it does (and I'm praying it does) then it's time for a replacement and hopefully problem cured.

 

[crash_matt]

BALLS!

So that didn't work, I was rather hoping it would be a simple enough case of tweak the TPS and get an improvement, nope. I do still think it is throttle linked, may still be TPS, but could really use thoughts and input. Here's how it went...

Leaping from the junction it stalled and tried to fall over (nice). Overpowered at lower revs and scruffy delivery probably due to TPS shift as this is new.
Great performance up to 5-6k, then the familiar bog down.
Bury the throttle full and a farty sludge takes over the performance and no speed improvement.
Ease off the throttle and try creeping it and it makes a little head way, but nothing major and still miles away from the rev limit.
Next up the bike stalls as approaching a junction and needs to be started again.

 

[crash_matt]

WTH?

So I thought I would take it for a run with the TPS disconnected see if that made a difference, i.e. wrong info being given to ECU, but still the same. More bogging down, same thing, maybe slightly different but only slightly. So.. does this mean the TPS is fine and the problem lies elsewhere? Probably... but where.