OB_busTa Kaw
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Looks like the rumors were true about the high speed stability.Kawasaki has delayed the sale of the ZX-12.
busTa Kaw
busTa Kaw
MCN ZX-12 Article
- Thread starter OB_busTa Kaw
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OB_busTa Kaw
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Sorry forgot the web address :-)
www.motorcyclenews.com/news/news.asp?page=
Latest+News&id=401
busTa Kaw
www.motorcyclenews.com/news/news.asp?page=
Latest+News&id=401
busTa Kaw
OB_Wronglane
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I read the article and got the impression that the rumors were just,that.......rumors.Thr article implied that the 12 will be stable at top speed. I can't see this company releasing this bike to the public with stability problems.
If anything, the article says the rumors were FALSE. I'm find it hard to read it any other way (even though I ride green). The high speed wobble / crash story was discussed here a while back.
I questioned it then and I'm still waiting for the answers. 1. Where can I find the original article that "exposed" this problem? 2. How long ago was this originally reported? 3. Was the author a witness to the tests or is he repeating information from a "un-named inside source"? 4. Was this bike a "test mule" or a "production" version?
I, personally, do not doubt the event took place. I believe it was before Ricky G. or Muzzy received the "pre-production" bikes. This leads me to think that the bike was a "mule" and nowhere close to an actual production version.
Antoher reason I don't believe the production version would share the reported malady, is the change in the bike's specs since the dealers' show in KC. At the KC show, KMC said the 12R had a rake & trail of 24 degrees & 3.8", a wheelbase of 55.7" and weighed 476 lbs.
About a month later, the specs changed to what they are currently. As with all new bike specs, they can change again by the actual release date. The revised specs are rake & trail of 23.5 degrees & 3.7", wheelbase of 56.7" and a weight of 463 lbs. Geez, do you think adding a full 1" to the wheelbase might help with it's high speed stability?
There is no question that the Hayabusa is a beanchmark of motorcycling. Just in top speed alone, the record was held by the ZX11 for about 7 years. The Blackbird squeezed into the title, for one year, by a few mph. Then comes the Hayabusa and it SMOKES them both by OVER 20 MPH! The achivement won't be repeated again in my lifetime.
The top speed is just one small aspect of what puts the Busa so far ahead of anything that has come before it. The 12R will be a competitor to the Busa, not a bike that blew away everything else. They are both engineering marvels that will affect how ALL bikes will be designed, in the future.
I'm so thankful for the Busa, since it has set a standard that other will try to equal. The Busa and the 12R will have obvious differences that will appeal to different parts of the motorcycle community. To say that they are the same kind of bikes is ridiculous. The best part is that there is now a choice, just like the R1 is to the 916/996. Same, but different.
I questioned it then and I'm still waiting for the answers. 1. Where can I find the original article that "exposed" this problem? 2. How long ago was this originally reported? 3. Was the author a witness to the tests or is he repeating information from a "un-named inside source"? 4. Was this bike a "test mule" or a "production" version?
I, personally, do not doubt the event took place. I believe it was before Ricky G. or Muzzy received the "pre-production" bikes. This leads me to think that the bike was a "mule" and nowhere close to an actual production version.
Antoher reason I don't believe the production version would share the reported malady, is the change in the bike's specs since the dealers' show in KC. At the KC show, KMC said the 12R had a rake & trail of 24 degrees & 3.8", a wheelbase of 55.7" and weighed 476 lbs.
About a month later, the specs changed to what they are currently. As with all new bike specs, they can change again by the actual release date. The revised specs are rake & trail of 23.5 degrees & 3.7", wheelbase of 56.7" and a weight of 463 lbs. Geez, do you think adding a full 1" to the wheelbase might help with it's high speed stability?
There is no question that the Hayabusa is a beanchmark of motorcycling. Just in top speed alone, the record was held by the ZX11 for about 7 years. The Blackbird squeezed into the title, for one year, by a few mph. Then comes the Hayabusa and it SMOKES them both by OVER 20 MPH! The achivement won't be repeated again in my lifetime.
The top speed is just one small aspect of what puts the Busa so far ahead of anything that has come before it. The 12R will be a competitor to the Busa, not a bike that blew away everything else. They are both engineering marvels that will affect how ALL bikes will be designed, in the future.
I'm so thankful for the Busa, since it has set a standard that other will try to equal. The Busa and the 12R will have obvious differences that will appeal to different parts of the motorcycle community. To say that they are the same kind of bikes is ridiculous. The best part is that there is now a choice, just like the R1 is to the 916/996. Same, but different.
OB_DangerMouse
Registered
For gods sake don't take ANYTHING printed by MCN as truth - they are habitual liars.
Well I just want to say that I also read the MCN article on the ZX-12R and when I compare it with MCN articles in the past it's actually a pretty good article because MCN is usually "full of it." As someone already said in this thread of post the ZX-12R will NOT have the same impact on the world of motorcycles as the 1300R did or even the R1! It shouldn't surprise anyone if a ZX-12r "showroom model" can't produce faster numbers than a showroom Busa. It's one thing to have the ZX-12R run good numbers on a pre-production model but it's a totally different thing to get it to do that after the bike has gone through some EPA regulations etc. The article said that the 12R will probably be geared down and it'll only reach just under 200mph with the stock sprockets...well changing the sprockets on the Busa will also get you to the 200mph zone. I do not think the 12R will be faster than the Busa ANYWHERE, even in the twisty canyon roads. The 12R is not a lightweight machine..and it carries it's weight up higher than the Busa which carries it weight low and more forward. A bike as heavy as the 12R that carries it's weight that high is NOT gonna be a great canyon carver. The only area where the 12R might be better than the Busa is Comfort! Also those of you that like to squeeze all the performance you can get out of your bike by way of aftermarket mods will really be more happy with the Busa because it's engine it more tuneable than the 12's. Kawi's engine are usually tuned almost to the max. Whereas Suzuki's engines are not. With the right mods to the Busa it'll go faster than the 12R ever will. Also a stock Busa will have more grunt than a stock 12R. Just wait, some of you wont believe anything I just said but just wait a few weeks then read the mag reviews. Sure they'll say the 12R is faster because that will sell more mags but just look at their stats...you'll be able to find the truth there. Look at the top speeds of the bikes..look at which bikes turns the fastest laps around the track. That's all I have to say for now. Gonna be a lot of dissappointed 12R owners when they get their bike and go up against a Busa for the first time and they can't quite pull away from it or maybe the Busa will be pulling away from them!
G
Guest
That high speed wobble will probably be what finally ends my time hear on earth. The 12 is a time bomb. It will fall to the busa in every area of performanc. It will have double the recalls that the busa had. The front wheel will never stay planted at the strip meaning miserable times compared to the busa. I doubt it will top 190 unless re-geared. The fit and finish are horrific compared to the busa which set new levels of refinement. The motor is completely maxed out as is and any thought of extracting extra hp from mods will backfire in your face. The center of gravity will be way higher than the busa, the fact that the tank is under the seat dont matter. I dont even know what the f uck I was thinking of when I considered getting one. Could anyone tell me of a dealership anywhere in the u.s. that has a blue/silver busa that I could buy immediately.
G
Guest
I don't think MCN is correct about changing the sprocket on the Busa. If I remember correctly the stock gearing is good for 199 at redline and it won't normally pull that. I'm sure Turbo Rick could enlighten us on what he had to do sprocket and power wise to exceed 200.
G
Guest
Omega - the Red/Gray is faster! 
Slam, since the 12R isn't in the showroom yet, I'm only guessing on this, but the Busa out handling a 12 on the twisties? The 12 having a higher CG? Going though EPA regs?
I don't know, but as far as "going through EPA", it's been done. The catalyst system in the exhaust make the 12 a "50 state" bike. There won't be a "49 state" AND a CA version.
Most of the reports (and posts on this site), by those that have sat on the 12, say that feels surprisingly light. Some suspect this might be due to the gas tank being located under the seat (to lower the CG). I think moving 5 gallons of gas to that location could possibly lower the CG.
Normally, shorter wheelbases and steeper rake and trail, make for better "canyon carvers". Since the 12's r/t is steeper and it's almost 2" shorter in the wheelbase, one would think it would be better suited for that type of riding. Of course, you'd want the opposite if you were drag racing.
My opinion of the Busa has been stated earlier on this thread. Still, I think that your views of the 12 could be a little off. Than again, you could be right on all counts, but I doubt it. A month's time will tell.
I don't know, but as far as "going through EPA", it's been done. The catalyst system in the exhaust make the 12 a "50 state" bike. There won't be a "49 state" AND a CA version.
Most of the reports (and posts on this site), by those that have sat on the 12, say that feels surprisingly light. Some suspect this might be due to the gas tank being located under the seat (to lower the CG). I think moving 5 gallons of gas to that location could possibly lower the CG.
Normally, shorter wheelbases and steeper rake and trail, make for better "canyon carvers". Since the 12's r/t is steeper and it's almost 2" shorter in the wheelbase, one would think it would be better suited for that type of riding. Of course, you'd want the opposite if you were drag racing.
My opinion of the Busa has been stated earlier on this thread. Still, I think that your views of the 12 could be a little off. Than again, you could be right on all counts, but I doubt it. A month's time will tell.
OB_Wronglane
Registered
Slam,
Your opinions are respected and I hope you respect mine below.
"It shouldn't surprise anyone if a ZX-12r "showroom model" can't produce faster numbers than a showroom Busa. It's one thing to have the ZX-12R run good numbers on a pre-production model but it's a totally different thing to get it to do that after the bike has gone through some EPA regulations etc"
I think very soon we will see that a stock ZX-12 will be quicker than a stock Busa by a solid tenth(easy)or more.The 12 will be faster(top speed)by at least 3 MPH.I think Kawasaki has been sandbagging all along.They have always been"the king of horsepower"!
"I do not think the 12R will be faster than the Busa ANYWHERE, even in the twisty canyon roads"
After the tests are complete,the sentence above will have to be changed to"I think the 12R will be faster than the Busa EVERYWHERE,even in the twisty canyon roads"!
"The 12R is not a lightweight machine..and it carries it's weight up higher than the Busa which carries it weight low and more forward. A bike as heavy as the 12R that carries it's weight that high is NOT gonna be a great canyon carver"
While the ZX-12 is taller than the Busa,it's weight is carried lower,meaning it has a lower center of gravity and lets not forget that the wheelbase is shorter.While it will not beat an R-1 in the twisties,riders of equal ability will go through the twisties faster and with less fatigue than they would on a Busa.The 12 will be a great weapon in the twisties and own the right to called the quickest and fastest production bike in the world!
"Kawi's engine are usually tuned almost to the max"
I strongly disagree with this.Every production bike can be made quicker and faster!Name one that could not.
"With the right mods to the Busa it'll go faster than the 12R ever will"
Wrong again,Slam! If we keep both bikes at current displacement,give them "the right mods",by giving an engine builder a free hand to do anything and everything to the motor and/or chassis,the 12 will always be faster because the head from the factory is superior.With both heads ported by a professional using a bench the 12 head will likely always flow a little bit more than the Busa head,thus,making more horsepower!The heads on the 12 and the Busa are better than the heads of pro-stock bikes of not too long ago.Technology,just keeps on moving forward.
"Gonna be a lot of dissappointed 12R owners when they get their bike and go up against a Busa for the first time and they can't quite pull away from it or maybe the Busa will be pulling away from them!"
Stock to stock....not likely!The above statement will soon have to be changed to"Gonna be a lot of dissapointed Busa owners when they get their bike and go up against a ZX-12R for the first time and they can't quite pull away from it while the 12 gets smaller and smaller!
Keep in mind that I may be buying a Busa in the future,so I don't hate anyone here or your bikes.I am a realist and know motors and how their power is made.There is no "black magic",or anything secret about it as many shops have you believe!
I felt like writing tonight,so,let the comments commence!I hope to see some of you at Jacob Javits as I am going to two and possibly all three shows.
Just out of curiosity Slam,would you predict 1/4 mile and top speeds for both bikes on this thread? Thanks,and remember,your comments are respected by myself.
Your opinions are respected and I hope you respect mine below.
"It shouldn't surprise anyone if a ZX-12r "showroom model" can't produce faster numbers than a showroom Busa. It's one thing to have the ZX-12R run good numbers on a pre-production model but it's a totally different thing to get it to do that after the bike has gone through some EPA regulations etc"
I think very soon we will see that a stock ZX-12 will be quicker than a stock Busa by a solid tenth(easy)or more.The 12 will be faster(top speed)by at least 3 MPH.I think Kawasaki has been sandbagging all along.They have always been"the king of horsepower"!
"I do not think the 12R will be faster than the Busa ANYWHERE, even in the twisty canyon roads"
After the tests are complete,the sentence above will have to be changed to"I think the 12R will be faster than the Busa EVERYWHERE,even in the twisty canyon roads"!
"The 12R is not a lightweight machine..and it carries it's weight up higher than the Busa which carries it weight low and more forward. A bike as heavy as the 12R that carries it's weight that high is NOT gonna be a great canyon carver"
While the ZX-12 is taller than the Busa,it's weight is carried lower,meaning it has a lower center of gravity and lets not forget that the wheelbase is shorter.While it will not beat an R-1 in the twisties,riders of equal ability will go through the twisties faster and with less fatigue than they would on a Busa.The 12 will be a great weapon in the twisties and own the right to called the quickest and fastest production bike in the world!
"Kawi's engine are usually tuned almost to the max"
I strongly disagree with this.Every production bike can be made quicker and faster!Name one that could not.
"With the right mods to the Busa it'll go faster than the 12R ever will"
Wrong again,Slam! If we keep both bikes at current displacement,give them "the right mods",by giving an engine builder a free hand to do anything and everything to the motor and/or chassis,the 12 will always be faster because the head from the factory is superior.With both heads ported by a professional using a bench the 12 head will likely always flow a little bit more than the Busa head,thus,making more horsepower!The heads on the 12 and the Busa are better than the heads of pro-stock bikes of not too long ago.Technology,just keeps on moving forward.
"Gonna be a lot of dissappointed 12R owners when they get their bike and go up against a Busa for the first time and they can't quite pull away from it or maybe the Busa will be pulling away from them!"
Stock to stock....not likely!The above statement will soon have to be changed to"Gonna be a lot of dissapointed Busa owners when they get their bike and go up against a ZX-12R for the first time and they can't quite pull away from it while the 12 gets smaller and smaller!
Keep in mind that I may be buying a Busa in the future,so I don't hate anyone here or your bikes.I am a realist and know motors and how their power is made.There is no "black magic",or anything secret about it as many shops have you believe!
I felt like writing tonight,so,let the comments commence!I hope to see some of you at Jacob Javits as I am going to two and possibly all three shows.
Just out of curiosity Slam,would you predict 1/4 mile and top speeds for both bikes on this thread? Thanks,and remember,your comments are respected by myself.
Wronglane, I definetly respect your opinion and a lot of things you just posted makes sense to me. However, do you really think the the 12r's motor will have as much potential as the Busa's? Have you seen the 12r in person yet(maybe at a bike show)? Did you sit on it? If so you would have noticed that is it no feather weight and you may have been dissapointed when seeing the overall quality of the bike in person. The fairings are flimsy and you can find wiring hanging out all over the place it looks like utter sh-t! Yes I am buying a Busa in the very near future but my comments on the 12r don't have much to do with that because I'm a very competitive person and I like competition. If the 12r does turn out to be faster than all eyes are on Suzuki to take the title back(I love that kinda stuff). As far as the 12r's handling goes...we're really going to have to wait and see. I think that since a lot of it's weight is high and Kawi's suspension is not the best that it wont be better than the Busa. Neither bike is the weapon of choice if you spend a lot of time on canyon roads so it doesn't make much of a difference. Most canyon riders are looking at R1's, gsxr750, TL-R's, 9996's, etc. not 470lb+ 160hp+ machines. Also if you switch to a 4 to 1 Ti pipe on the Busa you drop quite a bit of weight and gain a little bit of hp...How much weight will the 12R drop when an aftermarket pipe is added? I think at the very most the 12R maybe 3-5mph faster than the Busa at top speed. WOOHOO! big deal if you're constantly going that fast on the road you wont live long enough to truely enjoy these bikes anyway. I live in the Chicago area and my previous bike was a '99 R1...I'm currently trading it in for a Blue/Silver Busa because of the fact that most of the roads around here are straight and better suited for the Busa.
OB_KawAbuser
Registered
It's nice to see MCN take the HEAT for a change!
Knock the UK mags all you want they are usually a month at least ahead of the US writers.
Will we read "ZX12 hits a Cowplop on rollout"
Omega, buy the ZX12 and prove them wrong, thats all!
Knock the UK mags all you want they are usually a month at least ahead of the US writers.
Will we read "ZX12 hits a Cowplop on rollout"
Omega, buy the ZX12 and prove them wrong, thats all!
I think that anyone who knows their a$$ from their elbows knows that Kawi's come from the factory in a higher state of tune than Suzuki's. All this stuff about the heads is not only conjecture, but it's irrelevant. People who build motors , BUILD MOTORS, and the Bus has much more potential for builders. Some of you need to come back from the Hype/Fantasy world surrounding the 12R right now and look at the current FACTS you can find on the 12R. NOT the hyped up figures. We do know that the Bus doesn't have its frame going up and over the engine like the 12 does, and I do know the 12 felt top heavy to me and the Bus absolutely doesn't. As far as the 12's tank be under the seat hahah don't make me laugh you really think that's gonna greatly improve performance?? Let me hit you with another FACT...The vast majority of gas in a sportbike's gas tank is down at the bottom of the tank, right by your crotch, right in the middle of the bike. That 12 frame goes right up and over the engine, like an old GSX-R's so how are you expecting some type of miracle performance numbers from this configuration? Also, I'm gonna go out on a limb on this one but from my past experience and from talking to Kawi owners...I'd be willing to bet money that the 12r's suspension will BLOW! And you can quote me on that one. For all you guys maybe gals out there looking at the 12R don't think you're getting some miracle bike that's showcasing the lastest in motorcycle technology..I mean geez the 929RR is more advanced than the 12R! Last but not least I think I can sum all this hype around the 12R up in a famous quote from a Kit-Kat commercial...GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rockman, it's not so much that I care about how good the 12R will be. I mean I'm tired of reading hype about it. And I really hope that Busa owners on this forum aren't letting the hype get to their head and start thinking about trading in their Busa. I think anyone that trades in a Busa for a 12R will probably regret it. Happy 12R owners will most likely be die-hard Kawi fans who love Kawi so much they'll overlook the many flaws of the bike(they also wont see the Busa that flys by them on the street)..and they'll lie to themselves to make the bike more appealing to themself. The "R" in 12R might just end up standing for Recalls...yeah that's right the new ZX-12Recalls.
Ok before I make Kawi fans too mad, I'm just playing around a little bit. Don't take this post very seriously. Sure the Busa has flaws also but I think overall the quality of the Busa is better than the 12R. Yes that is my opinion but I think a lot of people here feel the same way.
P.S. I just want to take this lil space to flip the script on some 12R fans that keep posting stuff about how the 12R will handle better than the Busa. If you scroll up and read my previous post I have already addressed this issue and expressed my opinions. I keep hearing that since the 12R has a shorter wheelbase than the Busa that it will be better. First of all does anyone here know for a fact what the 12R's wheelbase is...but nevermind that if you say the 12R has a shorter wheelbase I can throw that right back into your face because we're talking about a bike trying to take the top speed title! We're talking about a bike that wants to fly down the drag strip in under 9.5sec..For a bike trying to accomplish all this why does it need a short wheelbase which will make things VERY VERY hard at the drag strip? Oh the short wheelbase will make the bike corner good so you can take it up in the canyons? Oh please, the bike is still heavy so you will still get fatigued trying to throw all the weight around. Kawi's suspension is not the best just ask the nice lil 9r that's been riding in the back seat of it's class every since the R1 jumped into the scene. Will the 12R be a nice bike? You bet! Will you slaughter the Busa? Uuummm No!
Ok before I make Kawi fans too mad, I'm just playing around a little bit. Don't take this post very seriously. Sure the Busa has flaws also but I think overall the quality of the Busa is better than the 12R. Yes that is my opinion but I think a lot of people here feel the same way.
P.S. I just want to take this lil space to flip the script on some 12R fans that keep posting stuff about how the 12R will handle better than the Busa. If you scroll up and read my previous post I have already addressed this issue and expressed my opinions. I keep hearing that since the 12R has a shorter wheelbase than the Busa that it will be better. First of all does anyone here know for a fact what the 12R's wheelbase is...but nevermind that if you say the 12R has a shorter wheelbase I can throw that right back into your face because we're talking about a bike trying to take the top speed title! We're talking about a bike that wants to fly down the drag strip in under 9.5sec..For a bike trying to accomplish all this why does it need a short wheelbase which will make things VERY VERY hard at the drag strip? Oh the short wheelbase will make the bike corner good so you can take it up in the canyons? Oh please, the bike is still heavy so you will still get fatigued trying to throw all the weight around. Kawi's suspension is not the best just ask the nice lil 9r that's been riding in the back seat of it's class every since the R1 jumped into the scene. Will the 12R be a nice bike? You bet! Will you slaughter the Busa? Uuummm No!
OB_Wronglane
Registered
Slam,I'm glad we disagree with no name calling.
"All this stuff about the heads is not only conjecture, but it's irrelevant"
Horsepower "is" directly related to the airflow through the head,so it's very relevant.
"As far as the 12's tank be under the seat hahah don't make me laugh you really think that's gonna greatly improve performance?? Let me hit you with another FACT...The vast majority of gas in a sportbike's gas tank is down at the bottom of the tank, right by your crotch, right in the middle of the bike"
While the tank under the seat will not affect 1/4 mile or topspeed performance,it will definitely improve handling.Moving 5 gallons of gas,even if it is only an inch lower,will greatly improve things.I am sure there are people on this site that can explain this better than myself,so if you read this,please back me up.While I agree with you that the 12 or the Busa would not be the first choices for canyon carving,in my opinion,it will be surprisingly quick and better than the Busa.
"Also, I'm gonna go out on a limb on this one but from my past experience and from talking to Kawi owners...I'd be willing to bet money that the 12r's suspension will BLOW!"
This statement killed me!Have you ever ridden an ZX-6 or a ZX-9. These bikes handle great.Why do you think the 12's suspension will suck? This is their flagship.
"I think at the very most the 12R maybe 3-5mph faster than the Busa at top speed. WOOHOO!big deal"
In an earlier post,you said the 12 wouldn't beat the Busa anywhere and now you say that maybe the 12 will be 3-5 mph faster.At speeds approaching 200,3-5 mph is a "huge" deal.
I look forward to the comparison between these two,great bikes.It's not here yet,but it's coming.Good luck with your Busa when you get it!
"All this stuff about the heads is not only conjecture, but it's irrelevant"
Horsepower "is" directly related to the airflow through the head,so it's very relevant.
"As far as the 12's tank be under the seat hahah don't make me laugh you really think that's gonna greatly improve performance?? Let me hit you with another FACT...The vast majority of gas in a sportbike's gas tank is down at the bottom of the tank, right by your crotch, right in the middle of the bike"
While the tank under the seat will not affect 1/4 mile or topspeed performance,it will definitely improve handling.Moving 5 gallons of gas,even if it is only an inch lower,will greatly improve things.I am sure there are people on this site that can explain this better than myself,so if you read this,please back me up.While I agree with you that the 12 or the Busa would not be the first choices for canyon carving,in my opinion,it will be surprisingly quick and better than the Busa.
"Also, I'm gonna go out on a limb on this one but from my past experience and from talking to Kawi owners...I'd be willing to bet money that the 12r's suspension will BLOW!"
This statement killed me!Have you ever ridden an ZX-6 or a ZX-9. These bikes handle great.Why do you think the 12's suspension will suck? This is their flagship.
"I think at the very most the 12R maybe 3-5mph faster than the Busa at top speed. WOOHOO!big deal"
In an earlier post,you said the 12 wouldn't beat the Busa anywhere and now you say that maybe the 12 will be 3-5 mph faster.At speeds approaching 200,3-5 mph is a "huge" deal.
I look forward to the comparison between these two,great bikes.It's not here yet,but it's coming.Good luck with your Busa when you get it!
OB_RobBase
Registered
Omega, I'm sure you were kidding about everything you wrote except "the front wheel will never stay planted at the strip".
To all the arguements I must say "There's nothing quite as nice as riding a brand new _________(fill in bike name) out of the dealership!!
Some of the .org guys will be at NYC at the Suzuki area at 2:00. Any Kawi guys going? Nothing better than sh*t talkin face to face.
(in a non-violent manner of course!)
[This message has been edited by RobBase (edited 27 January 2000).]
To all the arguements I must say "There's nothing quite as nice as riding a brand new _________(fill in bike name) out of the dealership!!
Some of the .org guys will be at NYC at the Suzuki area at 2:00. Any Kawi guys going? Nothing better than sh*t talkin face to face.
(in a non-violent manner of course!)
[This message has been edited by RobBase (edited 27 January 2000).]
G
Guest
Omega... Have you been smoking something again. Why the turnaround? I thought you liked the 12. Perhaps you're pulling our legs and we're falling for it.
Slam... I'm a HARDCORE Busa lover but the 12 will be a fine machine too. Give the Kawi's a chance. If someone offered me a ride on a 12 I wouldn't turn it down. Now, I would turn down a Harley ride. I have principles to live up to.
The article mentioned above reads like the so called stability problems were a rumor. Let's be fair to the Kawi guys even if their machine doesn't suit our taste.
[This message has been edited by Lyle (edited 27 January 2000).]
Slam... I'm a HARDCORE Busa lover but the 12 will be a fine machine too. Give the Kawi's a chance. If someone offered me a ride on a 12 I wouldn't turn it down. Now, I would turn down a Harley ride. I have principles to live up to.
The article mentioned above reads like the so called stability problems were a rumor. Let's be fair to the Kawi guys even if their machine doesn't suit our taste.
[This message has been edited by Lyle (edited 27 January 2000).]
Hay guys, Who F u cking cares!
All this BS speculation sounds like a bunch of 15 year old school boys having a pis sing contest.
The Busa is a great bike, the 12 sounds like it will be a great bike. Lets talk about how exciting it is to ride bikes like these.
All this chest pounding is juvenile. I’m more interested in going fast than what bike has the best spects. When is comes down to it the Better riders goes faster. The bikes are tools.
All this BS speculation sounds like a bunch of 15 year old school boys having a pis sing contest.
The Busa is a great bike, the 12 sounds like it will be a great bike. Lets talk about how exciting it is to ride bikes like these.
All this chest pounding is juvenile. I’m more interested in going fast than what bike has the best spects. When is comes down to it the Better riders goes faster. The bikes are tools.