Loud bikes are killing off motorcycles in the US

[dadofthree]

Well in MA if you dont have "STAMPED" EPA certified exhaust now(just passed law) it's a $300.00 fine, also NY is looking at the same. No more Decible Meters or anything due to guys that just have to rev em as they go thru towns or markets both Sports and Harleys.. Thanks guys..

Hopefully I'll never be bothered by these laws, but at the same time I kept the stock setup including O2 sensor ...

[proud dad]

Is my Muzzy too loud when my wife hears me coming home from 2 1/2 miles away,and knows where I'm at..at the time my fist is in the throttle

Loud pipes and bright lights are not gonna save nothing!!!!!! 11:30 sunday night going home from work,I about ate the right front wheel of a damn Ford Taurus [dark blue with shiney wheels]cause the idiot was in the left turn lane and decided in the last minute he wanted to go to the right turn lane.Turned right in front of me.No time to hit the brakes..just dodged the bastid...Those Vance and Hines pipes and my headlight [it was dark out..duh!]didn't do a damn thing for me.Throwing that VTX around like a sportbike got me home without a scratch.
I was so pizzed off even after I got home my wife says "It wasn't your time can you calm down"

[BusaWizard]

Loud pipes, draws drivers attention sometimes, but don't rely on that as a means of accident avoidance.

[slngshott]

I have to disagree. Hvaing my loud pipes is a safety issue. People just dont look for motorcycles,I see it every day when I ride. But with my pipes I see them do a second thought and look again and stop now that they see my because they heard me first. I guess where you live they look for bikes more than where I live.I know my pipes have saved my ass a few times so they stay!!!!!!!

[Dino]

ok im going to play devils advicate here....you cant find statistics on if loud pipes save lives because if they hear you and are aware of you then they dont pull out in front of you and NO accident is created...how do you gather statistics for that. of COURSE you cant prove it. for my experience HELL YES i can blip my throttle when i notice someone at a intersection getting ready to pull out and looking the other way that they IMMEDIATLY JACK THIER HEAD TO LOOK AT ME. should i grab my notebook and pencil so i may jot down the accident i my not have had due to my "awarness" to make sure the other driver was "aware" of me so that we can end this argument. heck for that matter lets let the country be switched to 50% electric cars and see wich ones get hit most often!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is an excellent point. You could possibly say the same thing about HIDs or bright clothing. You need something to happen to have stats on it. You could however create a driving simulation and provide a lot of visual and audio inputs but other than that I am not sure how you are going to come up with stats.

Fact is the other day I was driving and heard a bike coming up beside me that I did not see in my blind spot. So in that case the pipes provide me some good situational awareness. The problem is dip****z goosing that throttle in traffic to let everyone know they are there. Or boneheads that think it is cool to rev their engines in someones neighborhood. It is not abou tloud pipes it is about respect for other people. That is the problem.

[CWCobra]

Loud noises such as pipes may contribute to safety, but the contribution is not measurable - it's almost an abstract, an intangible. The area most impacted by loud pipes is directly to the rear of the bike anyhow - not in front. I submit that if riders were truly interested in improving their overall safety, there are MANY things that they COULD do which would be far more effective than loud pipes. Things (many already mentioned) like hi-vis neon yellow armored jacket, hi-vis neon yellow full-face helmet, proper gloves and boots, armored pants, head and tail light modulators. Until a biker has taken these steps, trying to justify loud pipes in the name of "safety" comes across as a bit disingenuous, don't you think?

CW

[Takeuon]

Per Mr. Bogus.....this pretty much sums it up for me!

[Dino]

Loud noises such as pipes may contribute to safety, but the contribution is not measurable - it's almost an abstract, an intangible. The area most impacted by loud pipes is directly to the rear of the bike anyhow - not in front. I submit that if riders were truly interested in improving their overall safety, there are MANY things that they COULD do which would be far more effective than loud pipes. Things (many already mentioned) like hi-vis neon yellow armored jacket, hi-vis neon yellow full-face helmet, proper gloves and boots, armored pants, head and tail light modulators. Until a biker has taken these steps, trying to justify loud pipes in the name of "safety" comes across as a bit disingenuous, don't you think?

CW

Perhaps, but I am sure there is lots of acticdotal evidence to suggest that having loud pipes contributes to other individuals on the road noticing you. Just like there is rarely only one factor in a crash there is rarely only one factor in avoiding a crash as well, so I agree there are lots of other things that contribute to making other drivers aware you are nearby.

It would be a shame to exclude a possible item that makes us more visible because it is abused.

[Rayabusa0818]

Per Mr. Bogus.....this pretty much sums it up for me!

Touche

[MelodicMetalGod]

I run the pipes on my vtx with no baffles! I run my busa with yosh pipes and no muffler! you must be a bleeding heart tree hugger. nobody around here minds, not the neighbors or the cops! so bit me! and loud pipes have saved many lives.

What an eloquent post. It seems that your communication skills are as considerate as your choice in sounds levels.

There is no proof. Show me. You can't.

Exactly. However, there is a load of evidence that loud bikes are aligning the general population against us.

i'd guess there's no proof that loud pipes don't save lives either! and 1/4 mile away those bikes were disrupting your conversation? try that theory out at your local dragstrip.

Good point/bad point, I don't have any proof that they don't save lives but we do know that loud pipes hurt our sport's freedom. So do you take generally take action in when there's a possible small positive and a DEFINITE massive negative? ???

As far as "try that theory out at your local dragstrip", I don't see the relevance. A dragstrip is a designated "noise" zone - if folks go there, they're expecting noise levels to be up just like going to a concert you expect the music to be loud. As always, the difference is choice - At a track or a concert if you don't like the sound levels, you can always just leave. What are folks to do if they're at home? What if it's 3 am? What if they're sitting in traffic behind the bike?

PS: Asking for proof that something doesn't happen or exist is generally accepted to be an argument of desperation.

[Mr Bogus]

Touche

Dont "touche" me there...




I can only go by what I hear on the road.. if some guy is dumb enough to ride along side of me in a blind spot.. his loud pipes MIGHT be heard.. (sure do not recall finding out someone was next to me cause of his loud bike) But maybe there is some relation to the type of guy that "would" ride along in a cars blind spot AND have loud pipes at the same time?

Hmmmm.....

[MelodicMetalGod]

am with you MMG... have been in towns that did this and anyone that has ever driven a big truck will tell you that the azzhats with the 8" straight pipes and a jake have pretty much banned every tractor trailer from using engine brakes.. 1% of the clowns have affected the other 99% of the responsible guys..

arguing with guys that believe the "loud pipe" thing is like pounding sand... the "Look at me" syndrome is too deep...

in time, you will find that most are young singles without kids.. as maturity sets in, they start to see the pluses and minuses of each... Just takes time.. was there at one time myself.. about the time I turned mid 20's, I wised up myself..

Just hope that they respect quiet neighborhoods in the mean time.. (is sort of like playing your loud stereo in your own driveway, lets every crook within earshot know where the booty is)

Unfortunately, the law is beginning to legislate all of us based on the 1% whom operate with less consideration, both in pipes and stereo.

+1000 on the noise/look at me/show boating highlights where the goods are for the thieves. I'm hopeful that less than 20% of my neighbors even know I have motorcycles at all!

PS: Awesome shirt!

[Mr Bogus]

It is rather sad for all involved when the "I got a right to" starts to put the damper on everyone...

The books are full of laws and ordinances that have come to be just because a few have pushed the "well I got the right to do XX, so I will"

in come the "we know what is best for everyone" group (just as bad IMHO) and then enact laws that affect everyone.. Things go from bad to worse (albeit quieter )

All could be avoided with a bit of respect for others...

boom box cars, loud 18 wheeler pipes, loud car pipes, loud bike pipes, racers that think they need to warm engines at 6AM when the races do not start till noon, neighbors that think parties till 4AM on a weeknight are fine, have all alienated scores of people and cause senseless laws to be enacted..

Personally I think kids that scream in stores should be ticketed as 'nuisance' (probably should not say that out loud huh?)

I like a nicely tuned exhaust note.. (F1 cars give me the chills) just a time and place for them all...

[MelodicMetalGod]

Well I was going to respond a lot more elaborate but I don't want to argue and all because all of that is opinion and preference but.. loud pipes save lives???? don't know about that and the prove it thing is lame, you can't prove that either way so it is pointless bringing that one up on either end of the debate.

Agreed. However, it is the loud pipe folks that are constantly offering it as justification for the elevated noise levels.

but in my opinion WHO CARES... if it ain't late and they aren't like waking you up or winding it up in neutral just to make it loud while sitting or something then whatever.

And, in general, that seems to work out just fine. Unfortunately, there are far too many who ARE behaving in such manner and the public, obviously, does care enough to make laws against such behavior. The issue is that the laws they make are extreme and applied ALL of us. Therefore, all of us should care.

I`m 39 with 3 Kids & a home owner in a residential neighborhood. Have slash cut my Yosi mid pipes! I respect my neighbors by not reving it up or running it late at night. When I come home late I kill the ign. & coast in. Not at all trying to get anybody above all worked up but I`m alive to write this! So that may be of some proof? Just my opinion that`s nothing more, nothing less.

Hats off to you! That's what it's all about, I think - consideration and respect for those with whom you share the environment.

As far as your proof, well, it's actually just a theory and there's an easy proof for your theory. Put on quiter pipes and go for a ride. If you make it back, your theory is disproven.

[MelodicMetalGod]

It seems to me, at the heart of the argument made for loud pipes is always the unspoken assertion that one man's rights are worth more than another's, i.e. my right to the safety afforded me by my loud exhaust trumps your right to be able to sit in peace and [fill in the blank]. This is the attitude of a king, i.e. one whose rights have by decree been elevated above that of all others in the community.

The issue of loud pipes is like a whole lot of other issues where a certain, small faction feel they can do whatever they feel like doing, and everyone else can suck on it. The issue goes a lot deeper than this particular argument about motorcycle exhaust. We're looking into the face of one of the great failings in our society, i.e. the failure to respect one another. That's what this argument is about, underneath its face--respect. Lack of respect for others will always come back and express itself, eventually, as a failure to respect one's self. Unless one is a king, how can it not end up that way?

POST of the THREAD!

Wow! You sir, are spot on! That is precisely the point and hats off to you for putting it such clear terms. Well done!

PS: Even kings are better off when they respect others.

[MelodicMetalGod]

There was a police force that trashed the stock exhaust and added loud aftermarket exhaust for safety reasons.

That only proves that the cops someone in the adminsitration believes that loud exhaust provides some measure of safety. Where is the proof?

I'm not a fan of obnoxiously loud exhaust,but you do only get one life and anything to help maintain that life should never shunned at.

By that logic, we should all be driving Volvo's. Unfortunately, these same lawmakers would probably be more than willing to outlaw bikes outright and arguing that motorcycles are so dangerous that we need to be deafeningly loud to have a chance at surviving a ride could very well back fire, resulting in full on anti bike laws.

[Mr Bogus]

motorcycles are so dangerous that we need to be deafeningly loud to have a chance at surviving

now thats a new angle.. sure wish you had not put that out there though... will probably happen now...

[MelodicMetalGod]

ok im going to play devils advicate here....you cant find statistics on if loud pipes save lives because if they hear you and are aware of you then they dont pull out in front of you and NO accident is created...how do you gather statistics for that. of COURSE you cant prove it.

Agreed - there is no proof on either side of the argument. That's why it's foolish to act on either opinion.

for my experience HELL YES i can blip my throttle when i notice someone at a intersection getting ready to pull out and looking the other way that they IMMEDIATLY JACK THIER HEAD TO LOOK AT ME. should i grab my notebook and pencil so i may jot down the accident i my not have had due to my "awarness" to make sure the other driver was "aware" of me so that we can end this argument.

The same thing can be accomplished with a good horn but the horn is only on when needed. It can also be argued that "the accident i my not have had due to my "awarness"" was avoided because of your awareness, regardless of how loud your bike or horn is. It certainly seems reasonable that if you see an errant driver and you are not able to get their attention with loud pipes that you'd find another solution for avoiding the accident (horn, brakes, position shift, etc).

heck for that matter lets let the country be switched to 50% electric cars and see wich ones get hit most often!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Only loud car I ever had was the only one that got smashed into. Hmmm.... The problem was me and the driver that hit me. Since then, I've driven perfectly quiet cars and have had no issues. ???

[MelodicMetalGod]

Stealthy, I agree with you that loud pipes do save lives and I also drive with my hid high beams on. Here in Arizona, where we get drivers from all over, they don't pay attention to s@#$. They wait till the last minute to get over when the lane they are in is merging, pullout from parking lots without stoping to look, and they are busy talking on their phones. I love it when I yell at them to get off the f@#$ing phone they say " You have, you use it right?" I tell them yes, but I wait till I get where i'm going to use it.

No argument that drivers, not just in Arizona but EVERYwhere, are a threat due to lack of attention to driving in general. However, once again, a horn will do the same job AND not piss folks off when it's not needed.

[MelodicMetalGod]

Got some a-hole that lives a few blocks away and wether I'm watching movies, cutting my grass or sleeping, I hear Obnoxious man and his 'notice mee everyone' Victory (or whatever the heck that contraption is) every damn time.

Loud pipes saves lives? Yeah, just as guns kill people.

Most obnoxious (Look at meee!) egg-head types are to blatantly ignorant, too full of 'em selves to understand this.

.. and that's how I really feel.

Condolences. lease: