Looking for O% anti squat





#1
With the understanding that chain pull, tire drive and swingarm axle/pivot location affect anti squat

With stock pivot location, 170ish hp, 16/43 and 12over, in theroy, would 0% anti squat be achievable with the swingarm being level/or angled downward(rear to front) with rider weight applied, or better yet, without rider weight?

Is 0% anti squat even achievable for the matter?

Thank you
 

fallenarch

THE SLOW RIDER
Registered
#3
I am definitely not a suspension expert especially on a stretched bike but I'm betting Suzuki designed in some anti-squat in the stock bike. One of the reasons I have always been against stretches is people do them for aesthetics and forget about all the details to make a stretch work better. If you can't attack this with geometry (swingarm shape, pivot point, etc) all that is left is shocks. With stock power you can probably over-spring the rear and get rid of most of the squat, but at the risk of a really bad ride. On the other hand, those setups are designed for the stripe, not the street.
 
#5
is no squat achieveble. Sure. Just put a solid bar where the shock use to be. However to get no squat and have suspension you would need a shock spring so stiff I am not sure you could tell the difference. then of course there would be some sag from the forks to contend with.
This may be an interesting project. Am I correct to assume this is nessassry for clearance on a lowered bike?
 
#6
Thanks guys for all the replies
I'm guessing I worded the question wrong

SQUAT IS WHAT IM LOOKING FOR
Weight transfer, in my opinion, on the street in a straight line is a make or break win or lose

so a bar or strut is pointless as mentioned

Not sure how to word my question tho since my race terminology is limited, but I want the least amount of resistance to rear squat as possible so I can tune my shocks to its optimum ability for weight transfer and grip holding

I thought 0% anti squat was the way to word it, but seems that brought up bars and struts lol no no no no no no lol I need that ass to the ground baby lol

Jus looking for the technical way to attack this and eliminate guess work...thank you
 
#7
Thanks guys for all the replies
I'm guessing I worded the question wrong

SQUAT IS WHAT IM LOOKING FOR
Weight transfer, in my opinion, on the street in a straight line is a make or break win or lose

so a bar or strut is pointless as mentioned

Not sure how to word my question tho since my race terminology is limited, but I want the least amount of resistance to rear squat as possible so I can tune my shocks to its optimum ability for weight transfer and grip holding

I thought 0% anti squat was the way to word it, but seems that brought up bars and struts lol no no no no no no lol I need that ass to the ground baby lol

Jus looking for the technical way to attack this AMD eliminate guess work
u got pics of the bike.... people could make recommends from there.
 
#8
At 12 over, you're too long. The rear tire doesn't have enough weight over it, it's gonna spin. With a stock motor, even geared, there's no need to be that long. Half that is better, hell you can go stock wheelbase and still launch if you have a nice clutch hand. All that being said, save up and buy a drag shock, until then set up the shock to compress fast (soft) and rebound slow (medium/soft).
 
#11
At 12 over, you're too long. The rear tire doesn't have enough weight over it, it's gonna spin. With a stock motor, even geared, there's no need to be that long. Half that is better, hell you can go stock wheelbase and still launch if you have a nice clutch hand. All that being said, save up and buy a drag shock, until then set up the shock to compress fast (soft) and rebound slow (medium/soft).
HI Are you planning to put a12 over arm on the bike? If you are Frank at Powerhouse can get it for you. I have a 6 to 12 over for my bike., a Penske shock with a titanium spring and a MTC Gen 2 clutch. arm with extras $2500.00 shock with spring with titanium bolt kit about $2400.00 clutch with needed cover $3000,00. No it is not cheep to do it right. But I will have a few more HP more than stock.
 
#12
Won't let me load side pic

**jus for clarity** plz let me explain

Bike is stockish power with possible valve and cam work, gutted yoshi slip ons, lowered in the rear as far as possible with dog bones(front not sure), shock set softest compression hardest rebound, dual compound 200/55 full bore rear, small air box mod, marble mod, clutch mod...think I'm missing a few

Hears my mind frame to possibly eliminate some flack

In my opinion Suspension and chassis is the UPMOST import for any drag racing being done with anything, rider skill/consistency second, then power

With that said, street/strip 250ish+ horsepower is in the near future, as with 12over arm, 16/43, mtc multi lockup, air shifter, shift light and penske or Brock drag shock, and maybe a seat belt lol lol lol

So I know 12over is too long for a stockish motor as with a 16/43 isn't necessary, but what I'm trying to do is get CHASSSIS and SUSPENSION set up to my liking FIRSTLY before adding power, I feel this is a better option for me as 250+ hp in my opinion would be pointless on a stock step up in a straight line on the street

I much rather gather as much info as possible before making a decision on any purchase, that's why y'all probably see me post to the forum so frequently with random questions, I wanna have as much info as I can and have a footing on what I want to do before heading to a tuner or racing shop

Still won't let me load a my side shot lol
 
#13
HI Are you planning to put a12 over arm on the bike? If you are Frank at Powerhouse can get it for you. I have a 6 to 12 over for my bike., a Penske shock with a titanium spring and a MTC Gen 2 clutch. arm with extras $2500.00 shock with spring with titanium bolt kit about $2400.00 clutch with needed cover $3000,00. No it is not cheep to do it right. But I will have a few more HP more than stock.
The money u spent sounds spot on to me, pretty much matches my initial budget, rock on my friend!!!!

I will definetly look into that
 
#14
Suspension/chassis are indeed a very important part of the package, so think about where to spend your money. I assume it's not unlimited.....
Even with 250+ 12 over is not only not helping, it's hurting performance.
A stock clutch with heavy springs will hold the power levels you're shooting for.
Hard rebound is not what you want, it will act like a pogo stick. You want it to squat quick and come back up slow.
 
#15
Won't let me load side pic

**jus for clarity** plz let me explain

Bike is stockish power with possible valve and cam work, gutted yoshi slip ons, lowered in the rear as far as possible with dog bones(front not sure), shock set softest compression hardest rebound, dual compound 200/55 full bore rear, small air box mod, marble mod, clutch mod...think I'm missing a few

Hears my mind frame to possibly eliminate some flack

In my opinion Suspension and chassis is the UPMOST import for any drag racing being done with anything, rider skill/consistency second, then power

With that said, street/strip 250ish+ horsepower is in the near future, as with 12over arm, 16/43, mtc multi lockup, air shifter, shift light and penske or Brock drag shock, and maybe a seat belt lol lol lol

So I know 12over is too long for a stockish motor as with a 16/43 isn't necessary, but what I'm trying to do is get CHASSSIS and SUSPENSION set up to my liking FIRSTLY before adding power, I feel this is a better option for me as 250+ hp in my opinion would be pointless on a stock step up in a straight line on the street

I much rather gather as much info as possible before making a decision on any purchase, that's why y'all probably see me post to the forum so frequently with random questions, I wanna have as much info as I can and have a footing on what I want to do before heading to a tuner or racing shop

Still won't let me load a my side shot lol
throw the power at it first.... lots of guys at 300 hp without a long long bike.... I think ure going off of what u see guys doing on the street.... lotta incorrect setups out there, espescially on the street.
 
#16
I'm jus trying to gain some knowledge about this anti squat/anti dive scenario...

I see alot of track bikes, more or less so in the grudge bike scene, who either run their rear swingarm level or as low as possible and squat like a hot between the legs stripper or low at an angle downward( pivot to rear axle) and they seem to jus stick and go...

But from my understanding, with the swingarm at an angle the rear tire with acceleration wants to pull back up under the bike raising and decompressing the rear shock which goes against weight transfer

My guess would be that too much squat means more energy is spent planting the tire instead of going straight but I guess that would make since to have some anti squat on a prepped track but on the street i don't believe it would work well

Where im from I don't hear much track tech talk on the street so thats partly the reason why I'm hear, its mostly jus hearsay monkey see do, I figured if I could apply some of that track knowledge I could possibly have an advantage of some sort

I'm jus having fun guys...thank you
 
#17
throw the power at it first.... lots of guys at 300 hp without a long long bike.... I think ure going off of what u see guys doing on the street.... lotta incorrect setups out there, espescially on the street.
300 HP on a stock chassis and suspension sounds like a whole bunch of clutch wear to me lol I may be wrong but to tame 300hp on the street and go from a to b faster than the other guy in stock form wouldn't work for me at all...I suck I guess idk
 
#18
Suspension/chassis are indeed a very important part of the package, so think about where to spend your money. I assume it's not unlimited.....
Even with 250+ 12 over is not only not helping, it's hurting performance.
A stock clutch with heavy springs will hold the power levels you're shooting for.
Hard rebound is not what you want, it will act like a pogo stick. You want it to squat quick and come back up slow.
Great info as always my friend, thank you
 
#19
300 HP on a stock chassis and suspension sounds like a whole bunch of clutch wear to me lol I may be wrong but to tame 300hp on the street and go from a to b faster than the other guy in stock form wouldn't work for me at all...I suck I guess idk
part of the turbo build would of course include at least stiff clutch springs... a gen1 will hold 300 hp... u can even go 8lbs of boost on an unopened motor... it will net 260-275 hp..... gen1 only... and if ure NEXT thinking about budget turbo kits... forget it... rcc only....Current Turbo Kits : 1999-2007 250HP Hayabusa Stage One Kit and if you buy from PH... ull have someone to talk to about anything... its the best bang for the buck anywhere.. kit comes with a 2 year warranty... no other manufacturer can say that,
 
#20
as far as the suspension is concerned... i don't think its gonna be way overkill on a stock swingarm... remember a turbo has to spool to make its power.... 4-5 grand is where ure really gonna feel it under load.... perfect for roll on street stuff..... if ure gonna start really drag racing this thing seriously.... its a WHOLE nother thing... lots of clutches to choose from/ swingarms and drag shocks(setup to ure weight and arm length)… but for chits and giggles u COULD after u have the kit and power u want TRY OUT cheap extensions just for a couple runs and see how the bike acts.... BEFORE u invest heavily anywhere else..... but 250hp on a stock swingarm will be a lot of fun... just a few inches in swingarm length changes things DRASTICALLY...… I bought a plus 10 trac arm for my old bike and it was a huge mikstake… it needed LOTS of other stuff, and even then... I think that long arm and chain was unnecessary additional weight at the stockish power levels..... PLUS it rubbed the tail section... it needed at least a spring/shock and an extended tail....
 

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