Looking for O% anti squat





Boosted Cycle Perf

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Things have change. You use to want a lot of squat. Fast compression and slow rebound. Not the case anymore.

Look at pro street class bikes over the last 2 years or so. You’ll notice that the swing arm pivot is higher then the axle with the rider on it at the line on the real fast bikes. This is even more true in the grudge world with 21” over arms running a radial tire.

At the initial hit because the pivot is higher then the axle the rear tire essentially is trying to drive under the bike thus driving the tire in to the ground, flattening out the tire. Then about 10 foot out they’ll start to squat hard when the power starts pouring on. Vs 5 years ago they would squat right at the hit.
 

Mr Brown

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Things have change. You use to want a lot of squat. Fast compression and slow rebound. Not the case anymore.

Look at pro street class bikes over the last 2 years or so. You’ll notice that the swing arm pivot is higher then the axle with the rider on it at the line on the real fast bikes. This is even more true in the grudge world with 21” over arms running a radial tire.

At the initial hit because the pivot is higher then the axle the rear tire essentially is trying to drive under the bike thus driving the tire in to the ground, flattening out the tire. Then about 10 foot out they’ll start to squat hard when the power starts pouring on. Vs 5 years ago they would squat right at the hit.
But with the kind of power he's talking about using, wouldn't he want it to squat off the hit?
 

AsleepAtTheTree

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Things have change. You use to want a lot of squat. Fast compression and slow rebound. Not the case anymore.

Look at pro street class bikes over the last 2 years or so. You’ll notice that the swing arm pivot is higher then the axle with the rider on it at the line on the real fast bikes. This is even more true in the grudge world with 21” over arms running a radial tire.

At the initial hit because the pivot is higher then the axle the rear tire essentially is trying to drive under the bike thus driving the tire in to the ground, flattening out the tire. Then about 10 foot out they’ll start to squat hard when the power starts pouring on. Vs 5 years ago they would squat right at the hit.
See this is the exact type of info I was looking for
:super::thumbsup::banana:

The fact that you even mentioned the grudge scene means you know exactly what I'm talking about

Earlier I mentioned seeing some grudge bikes either squating from the hit or seem to jus hook and go

The ones that jus hooked and went did have some downward angle front to back pivot to axle, I also noticed they didnt wheelie as much either

But the ones that would squat at the hit would hook and be prone to wheelie, I'm guessing they run out of shock travel

The thing is, i mostly run on the street, call it no prep street grudge if u will, to have no squat on initial hit would mean a spinin smoke machine fighting for traction everywhere, seen it too many times

I need as much weight transfer as I can get on initial hit without running outta shock travel as possible, while also trying to control wheelies would be the next obstacle,...tuning tuning tuning I would guess

Looking forward to your response, awaiting your expertise
 

ogre

Call me Liberace!
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Two things:
One, take it to the track, it's incredibly dangerous and irresponsible to run at the speeds these bikes are capable of on the street, and not just risky to you. Last thing you want to do is smash into someone's 5 year old daughter crossing the street and turning her into jello. Let that sink in for a minute. You about to cry? Good. Now, assuming you're out late at night, in the boonies, away from other people, you're still putting yourself at significant risk, but you're a grown up and if you want to risk yourself, that's on you, just make sure your life insurance covers risky activities.

Second thing, what engine management are you running? I'd imagine the ideal thing on a surface with sketchy traction would be integrating some sort of traction control, since dialing in a super consistent launch wouldn't be as advantageous as it would on a nicely prepped track.
 

AsleepAtTheTree

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Two things:
One, take it to the track, it's incredibly dangerous and irresponsible to run at the speeds these bikes are capable of on the street, and not just risky to you. Last thing you want to do is smash into someone's 5 year old daughter crossing the street and turning her into jello. Let that sink in for a minute. You about to cry? Good. Now, assuming you're out late at night, in the boonies, away from other people, you're still putting yourself at significant risk, but you're a grown up and if you want to risk yourself, that's on you, just make sure your life insurance covers risky activities.

Second thing, what engine management are you running? I'd imagine the ideal thing on a surface with sketchy traction would be integrating some sort of traction control, since dialing in a super consistent launch wouldn't be as advantageous as it would on a nicely prepped track.
Hmmm, I like grape jello

So as far as I know as i sits today, everything is stock besides air box mod, k&n, pair valve, Yoshi slip ons, 17/43, 3rd owner of the bike, had it abt 2months now...there's a cut-out for a sidewinder exhaust from a previous owner that hints to me maybe some ecu mapping but the jerky low speed throttle response says otherwise maybe also lol

Anyway...

As for traction control, clutch hand throttle hand+ a little luck is the only way for me, a 2step is handy tho lol

All I wanna know is a little bit of suspension geometry knowledge to apply to the street, the guys I run with have no idea about geometry at all and I believe it will give me a tuning edge

Anti squat and shock tuning IMO is a make or break deal for me at the moment:super::banana::race:
 

ogre

Call me Liberace!
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Have you considered a revalve? Racetech is pretty reasonable for what you get. Suspension thats suited to you makes a huge difference. I daily a KTM 1190 ADV, and I had the suspension done up by Konflict, it's a night and day difference. The busa is next to get dialed in.
 

AsleepAtTheTree

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Have you considered a revalve? Racetech is pretty reasonable for what you get. Suspension thats suited to you makes a huge difference. I daily a KTM 1190 ADV, and I had the suspension done up by Konflict, it's a night and day difference. The busa is next to get dialed in.
Yeah thought about revalveing, I was told its jus better to get a drag shock built to you and your bike

But shock tuning I understand fully enough, its chassis geometry knowledge I'm hunting after, tho suspension effects this also, I'm more so interested in the initial setup, tuning would be cake when I can obtain the secret hidden knowledge of how basic geometry works....even google has limited info bc all the grudge racers aren't gonna give away the secret sauce lol
 

ali123

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Yeah thought about revalveing, I was told its jus better to get a drag shock built to you and your bike

But shock tuning I understand fully enough, its chassis geometry knowledge I'm hunting after, tho suspension effects this also, I'm more so interested in the initial setup, tuning would be cake when I can obtain the secret hidden knowledge of how basic geometry works....even google has limited info bc all the grudge racers aren't gonna give away the secret sauce lol
the secret sauce is racing the thing over and over and over and over... making small changes constantly.... right down to air pressure in ure tires... and to build a high end competitive grudge bike.... bring 30 grand to just get started...……. to start...……......
 
Yeah thought about revalveing, I was told its jus better to get a drag shock built to you and your bike

But shock tuning I understand fully enough, its chassis geometry knowledge I'm hunting after, tho suspension effects this also, I'm more so interested in the initial setup, tuning would be cake when I can obtain the secret hidden knowledge of how basic geometry works....even google has limited info bc all the grudge racers aren't gonna give away the secret sauce lol
Hi. This is a street/ race bike. Get a new top tree so you can lower the bike 1 to 2 inches, get a strap to lower it more when you race. For the rear get a 6 inch over arm and a good drag shock and a RCC turbo and have fun. Is this a Gen1 or Gen2? Frank at Powerhouse 631-491-6767 can get it all for you and it is good to get everything in one place and he knows what he is doing too. My E mail is vn66676869@aol.com or call 508-496-5680 after 1pm EST till 4pm EST. I am the guy that some people think I am building a 1000HP bike! But I am building an LSR/ street bike. I do want to get new classes for street ridden bikes.
 

AsleepAtTheTree

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the secret sauce is racing the thing over and over and over and over... making small changes constantly.... right down to air pressure in ure tires... and to build a high end competitive grudge bike.... bring 30 grand to just get started...……. to start...……......
Lol cant argue with that at all!!!

Tho I want be needing 30k anytime soon, the grudge scene is waaay outta my league lol, I run with about 10-15 guys on the street and strip here in mobile al and a good street strip bike is by far enough...I'll be the first and only turbo bike within a 100mile radius, nitrous is the thing around my town
 

AsleepAtTheTree

Registered
Hi. This is a street/ race bike. Get a new top tree so you can lower the bike 1 to 2 inches, get a strap to lower it more when you race. For the rear get a 6 inch over arm and a good drag shock and a RCC turbo and have fun. Is this a Gen1 or Gen2? Frank at Powerhouse 631-491-6767 can get it all for you and it is good to get everything in one place and he knows what he is doing too. My E mail is vn66676869@aol.com or call 508-496-5680 after 1pm EST till 4pm EST. I am the guy that some people think I am building a 1000HP bike! But I am building an LSR/ street bike. I do want to get new classes for street ridden bikes.
In a nutshell u pretty much nailed my setup, plus or minus a few other things:super:

Its s gen 1, not a big fan of the gen2

1000hp bike, wheeww maaaan I'm speechless!!!

Very much interested in your plans for new street classes!!!! Would love to learn more about LSR to

I'm a little shy to one on one witcha tho:lol:
I'll definitely keep a firm grip on your contact my friend thank you much
:super::super::thumbsup::thumbsup::beerchug::race:
 

AsleepAtTheTree

Registered
Things have change. You use to want a lot of squat. Fast compression and slow rebound. Not the case anymore.

Look at pro street class bikes over the last 2 years or so. You’ll notice that the swing arm pivot is higher then the axle with the rider on it at the line on the real fast bikes. This is even more true in the grudge world with 21” over arms running a radial tire.

At the initial hit because the pivot is higher then the axle the rear tire essentially is trying to drive under the bike thus driving the tire in to the ground, flattening out the tire. Then about 10 foot out they’ll start to squat hard when the power starts pouring on. Vs 5 years ago they would squat right at the hit.
Had to read your post again, I believe I got too excited when u explained and over reacted
My apologies

So if I'm understanding you right, you're saying tire drive from +positive anti squat would better perform than 0 or -negative anti squat at the initial hit

So I'll actually be hurting performance by trying to go as low as possible in the rear

when accelerating, is it possible for the chain to pull the swingarm up if the rear axle is above the front pivot

If that beith the case wouldn't more initial anti squat sacrifice grip down track bc there's less weight on the rear tire with positve anti squat

If so, how is this overcomed if possible

I'm jus trying to get a full understanding sir
Thank you:bowdown::beerchug:
 

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