Lawsuit Reality Check?

[afterhours]

first off.....i know lots of med students and law students that are "dreamers" they think they can save the world. its the world that ruins them.....doctors and lawyers are at the mercy of others. doctors do not create the insurance nightmare, and the cost.....

lawyers have to wait for a client to come thru the door.

and has to convince 12 others that thier victim need 10 million dollars for burning her legs with hot Mcdonalds coffee.

we complain about "responsability" yet we ignore the fact that there are 12 people that decided to pay that old lady for burning her legs.

the problem with the system is us, we broke it....


the lawsuit has merit, although i think the American Legion Baseball should also be at fault for allowing the bat.

i deal with it every year, these bats are designed to hit the ball harder, farther and faster....parents spend $300 - $400 so that little jonny can hit the ball further....

and the bats do not have any warnings at all....

the award was not for building a better bat, it was for not warning the public of the dangers of the new fancy bat.

[captain]

first off.....i know lots of med students and law students that are "dreamers" they think they can save the world. its the world that ruins them.....doctors and lawyers are at the mercy of others. doctors do not create the insurance nightmare, and the cost.....

lawyers have to wait for a client to come thru the door.

and has to convince 12 others that thier victim need 10 million dollars for burning her legs with hot Mcdonalds coffee.

we complain about "responsability" yet we ignore the fact that there are 12 people that decided to pay that old lady for burning her legs.

the problem with the system is us, we broke it....


the lawsuit has merit, although i think the American Legion Baseball should also be at fault for allowing the bat.

i deal with it every year, these bats are designed to hit the ball harder, farther and faster....parents spend $300 - $400 so that little jonny can hit the ball further....

and the bats do not have any warnings at all....

the award was not for building a better bat, it was for not warning the public of the dangers of the new fancy bat.

W H A T E V E R

There are inherent dangers when playing sports, many do not need to be stamped on a bat... The parents should have known that their son was right in line with getting smacked with a hard ball... Would you sue the parents of a batter becuase he had worked out and can swing harder and faster? Even if there was a stamp on the bat that said the ball was coming faster the pitcher never would have seen it, I guess then the batters parent could have been sued for not releasing information to the pitcher, ya know with holding safety information....

Give me a break.... just another family trying to get a few bucks from their dead sons accident.... I would feel much better if they had sued the league for allowing the bat VS the company that made it....



CAp

[Takeuon]

you know what is next right?

I sold you a golf ball.... the company that made that golfball is going to have to pay for the broken tile on the roof of my $1,000,000 home that is located on the right side of the fairway off the first tee....

Anyone dumb enough to make golf balls must be liable for any damage done..


now... about that car you made...... (slippery slope we got going here huh?)

You know what's funny about that statement Randy? I used to work for a couple golf courses. And if a golfer shanks a shot or slices and it hits a house on the course.....lets say it breaks a window. The homeowner has the right to come out and try to get the guilty golfers info or can even call the police and can then sue for the damages
I used to see a lot of homes on the right side of the fairways w/ these big silly nets up covering their windows

[tbonebusa]

first off.....i know lots of med students and law students that are "dreamers" they think they can save the world. its the world that ruins them.....doctors and lawyers are at the mercy of others. doctors do not create the insurance nightmare, and the cost.....

lawyers have to wait for a client to come thru the door.

and has to convince 12 others that thier victim need 10 million dollars for burning her legs with hot Mcdonalds coffee.

we complain about "responsability" yet we ignore the fact that there are 12 people that decided to pay that old lady for burning her legs.

the problem with the system is us, we broke it....


the lawsuit has merit, although i think the American Legion Baseball should also be at fault for allowing the bat.

i deal with it every year, these bats are designed to hit the ball harder, farther and faster....parents spend $300 - $400 so that little jonny can hit the ball further....

and the bats do not have any warnings at all....

the award was not for building a better bat, it was for not warning the public of the dangers of the new fancy bat.

BullCrap...Bats used in youth baseball, as well as in all levels of High School and College play, are built to a standard that limits the amount of rebound force the bat imparts to the ball. It is called the "BPF", Bat Performance Factor, and is specifically designed to hold exotic material bats within a certain performance window. Yes, they hit the ball further, but they have been allowed in play for years. This kid was not killed by some one-off Tungsten/Carbon Fiber SuperBat that hit the ball 50% harder than any other bat on the market...I think it would be safe to say their were probably 6-12 bats of the same type and performance level in the dugout that day.

This was a emotion driven lawsuit...the kid could have just as easily been killed by a batted ball off of a wooden bat, just as other's have been killed in the past. The simple fact is that the parents seized an opportunity for compensation in our court system that encourages the disposal of any and all personal responsibility these days.

If this boy was under 18 when he joined the league, than his parents signed a waiver recognizing the inherent danger. If you choose to allow your child to stand 60 feet away from a batter hitting a ball that may reach speeds over 125 MPH, than you assume that that player has some inherent risk involved in stepping onto the field. This was a tragic, freak accident. 6 inches in either direction and the ball is simply a hard line drive base hit up the middle.

At this rate, youth baseball will soon be played with wiffle balls and foam bats so no one runs the risk of getting hurt. This country is overly pussified, IMHO.

[RYC1966]

I might be wrong, but I recall in a class that...say your driving in your car and a part fails, causing a percieved / potential accident...you have the right to go after the car manufacture, part manyfacture, and the suppliers of the said part...it seems in the end the people getting paid for the waste of time are not even involved in the situation.

It could have started out legit...but a snake will take the prescidence and exploit it any way possible.

[Mr Bogus]

BullCrap...Bats used in youth baseball, as well as in all levels of High School and College play, are built to a standard that limits the amount of rebound force the bat imparts to the ball. It is called the "BPF", Bat Performance Factor, and is specifically designed to hold exotic material bats within a certain performance window. Yes, they hit the ball further, but they have been allowed in play for years. This kid was not killed by some one-off Tungsten/Carbon Fiber SuperBat that hit the ball 50% harder than any other bat on the market...I think it would be safe to say their were probably 6-12 bats of the same type and performance level in the dugout that day.

This was a emotion driven lawsuit...the kid could have just as easily been killed by a batted ball off of a wooden bat, just as other's have been killed in the past. The simple fact is that the parents seized an opportunity for compensation in our court system that encourages the disposal of any and all personal responsibility these days.

If this boy was under 18 when he joined the league, than his parents signed a waiver recognizing the inherent danger. If you choose to allow your child to stand 60 feet away from a batter hitting a ball that may reach speeds over 125 MPH, than you assume that that player has some inherent risk involved in stepping onto the field. This was a tragic, freak accident. 6 inches in either direction and the ball is simply a hard line drive base hit up the middle.

At this rate, youth baseball will soon be played with wiffle balls and foam bats so no one runs the risk of getting hurt. This country is overly pussified, IMHO.

I smell a big fat counter suit...

the parents knowingly allowed a minor to engage in a sport that could have hurt or killed him... sounds like negligence to me..

kid drowns in pool? parents let him go swimming
kid gets ko'd in car crash after borrowing keys from dad?
kid gets STD from girlfriend.. sue her parents for something


I guess in a litigious society, it will only end when the system collapses on itself..

[afterhours]

W H A T E V E R

There are inherent dangers when playing sports, many do not need to be stamped on a bat... The parents should have known that their son was right in line with getting smacked with a hard ball... Would you sue the parents of a batter becuase he had worked out and can swing harder and faster? Even if there was a stamp on the bat that said the ball was coming faster the pitcher never would have seen it, I guess then the batters parent could have been sued for not releasing information to the pitcher, ya know with holding safety information....

Give me a break.... just another family trying to get a few bucks from their dead sons accident.... I would feel much better if they had sued the league for allowing the bat VS the company that made it....



CAp

once again....ignoring the facts, to rant about hypotheticals.

fact: these new hot bats do not have warnings
fact; they create more dnager because the ball comes off the bat with more speed.
fact: there are no warnings
fact: the award is for the lack of warnings of the danger of using these bats.


fact: my nephew did a science project on these new bats last year, his little 9 year old body showed a 9 mph difference between a wood bat, and one of these new high powered bats.

9 mph measured by a radar gun.....and he is an average sized 9 year old.


its not about, danger inherant to the game...it about a warning that these bats my be dangerous.

i cannot take responsability, unless the bat manufacturer gives me the info. put a warning on the bat, let me decide if the dangers are worth the risk....

then if something bad happens its my fault.....but you cannot expect me to know the dangers if you do not inform me first...

[captain]

once again....ignoring the facts, to rant about hypotheticals.

fact: these new hot bats do not have warnings
fact; they create more dnager because the ball comes off the bat with more speed.
fact: there are no warnings
fact: the award is for the lack of warnings of the danger of using these bats.


fact: my nephew did a science project on these new bats last year, his little 9 year old body showed a 9 mph difference between a wood bat, and one of these new high powered bats.

9 mph measured by a radar gun.....and he is an average sized 9 year old.


its not about, danger inherant to the game...it about a warning that these bats my be dangerous.

i cannot take responsability, unless the bat manufacturer gives me the info. put a warning on the bat, let me decide if the dangers are worth the risk....

then if something bad happens its my fault.....but you cannot expect me to know the dangers if you do not inform me first...

Are you telling me that you don't have enough common sense to know that a ball is going to come very fast once the batter hits the ball? Are you telling me that you don't have the abilty to discern a dangerous situation? Come on, there has to be a level of personal accountability... The difference in the bat is nothing, 9 mph can easily be the difference in a kid that is physically more mature and experienced vs a first year batter. The scale is varied and there is no way that you can tell me that the bat made such a large difference that the batter needed to have the pitcher sign a waiver....

Whats next, a sign on the back of each batter that has the average speed of the ball once they hit it, that way the parents can decide if it's too dangerous...

GIVE ME A BREAK

Inherent dangers and risk...... Put your kid in the chess club if you don't want any chance that they be hurt....

CAp

[afterhours]

Are you telling me that you don't have enough common sense to know that a ball is going to come very fast once the batter hits the ball? Are you telling me that you don't have the abilty to discern a dangerous situation? Come on, there has to be a level of personal accountability... The difference in the bat is nothing, 9 mph can easily be the difference in a kid that is physically more mature and experienced vs a first year batter. The scale is varied and there is no way that you can tell me that the bat made such a large difference that the batter needed to have the pitcher sign a waiver....

Whats next, a sign on the back of each batter that has the average speed of the ball once they hit it, that way the parents can decide if it's too dangerous...

GIVE ME A BREAK

Inherent dangers and risk...... Put your kid in the chess club if you don't want any chance that they be hurt....

CAp

9 mph for a 9 year old is alot....especially if you are standing 40 feet in front of it.

same kid, same size,musculature using both types of bats...pure science and it proves the bats make a difference.

why are you against a warning?

you want people to take responsability, yet you don't want to give the information needed to make an intelligent decision....


ps: in the end...the decision to use aluminum is based on money, bat companies charge big dollar for the better bats. nobody is going to spend $300 for a wooden bat.

[tbonebusa]

once again....ignoring the facts, to rant about hypotheticals.

fact: these new hot bats do not have warnings
fact; they create more dnager because the ball comes off the bat with more speed.
fact: there are no warnings
fact: the award is for the lack of warnings of the danger of using these bats.


fact: my nephew did a science project on these new bats last year, his little 9 year old body showed a 9 mph difference between a wood bat, and one of these new high powered bats.

9 mph measured by a radar gun.....and he is an average sized 9 year old.


its not about, danger inherant to the game...it about a warning that these bats my be dangerous.

i cannot take responsability, unless the bat manufacturer gives me the info. put a warning on the bat, let me decide if the dangers are worth the risk....

then if something bad happens its my fault.....but you cannot expect me to know the dangers if you do not inform me first...

Wrong....you take responsibility when you allow your child to participate in the program. The program has in effect rules that govern which bats, balls, gloves, and protective gear are deemed acceptable for play at the level of play your child is choosing to participate in. If you deem the bats too "hot" for your child to effectively manage a batted ball hit towards him, then you need to remove your child from the program. The bat manufacturer has manufactured a bat that falls within the testing and performance guidelines put in place by Little League Baseball. These guidelines are in fact required to be printed on every bat approved for use in League play, specifically a BPF of 1.15 or less.

Now if the hitter in this case had "snuck" a hot bat that exceeded this rating into the game and the pitcher had been hurt or killed, or any other player, you would have a case. First to get a bucket load of grief would be the umpire(s). The field umpire is responsible for inspecting all gear to ensure that the gear is legal for play. Next in line would be the League itself who hired or scheduled the umpire(s). Then the player using the illegal bat, followed by his coach(es) assuming they were aware he was using a prohibited bat.

I am a long time youth baseball coach, and have been umpiring at the Little League, American Legion, and High School level for years. We go through training throughout the year to keep us current. The funny thing is, for the 5 years or so, the bulk of the training is not about the rules, field positioning,making the right call, etc...things that make the game better for everyone involved; the bulk of the training is about checking gear, filling out paperwork for an injury or ejection, when to call a game due to weather or light, etc...all driven by lawsuits such as this one.

[tex_garza]

too funny

[Tiller]

9 mph for a 9 year old is alot....especially if you are standing 40 feet in front of it.

same kid, same size,musculature using both types of bats...pure science and it proves the bats make a difference.

why are you against a warning?

you want people to take responsability, yet you don't want to give the information needed to make an intelligent decision....


ps: in the end...the decision to use aluminum is based on money, bat companies charge big dollar for the better bats. nobody is going to spend $300 for a wooden bat.

The 9 mph difference would not change much with an older athlete. The nine year old cannot hit a ball extremely hard with either wood or metal. As he gets older he will hit a ball harder with both wood and metal. Its not like as the nine year old gets older he keeps hitting harder and harder with metal but not harder and harder with wood. The scale stays the same between metal and wood bats. I am a college pitcher myself and I can tell you that whether a hitter is using wood or metal they can hit a ball hard enough to kill someone. And ALL metal bats these days are considered high performance bats.

And even if there is no warning, they still know the inherent dangers. Its OBVIOUS that there is dangers. The family just decided to sue to scheme money while they should be grieveing over the dead child.

[afterhours]

The 9 mph difference would not change much with an older athlete. The nine year old cannot hit a ball extremely hard with either wood or metal. As he gets older he will hit a ball harder with both wood and metal. Its not like as the nine year old gets older he keeps hitting harder and harder with metal but not harder and harder with wood. The scale stays the same between metal and wood bats. I am a college pitcher myself and I can tell you that whether a hitter is using wood or metal they can hit a ball hard enough to kill someone. And ALL metal bats these days are considered high performance bats.

And even if there is no warning, they still know the inherent dangers. Its OBVIOUS that there is dangers. The family just decided to sue to scheme money while they should be grieveing over the dead child.

so then why not put a warning on the bat? if everybody already knows this.

9 mph is alot, an 81mph fastball is batting practice...but a 90mph fastball is a different story.

we separate kids baswed on thier abilities, for safety....8 year olds cannot compete with 12 year olds. problem is, the bat can take an 8 year old and give the balls he hits the same velocity as an 11 or 12 year old....

creating an unsafe environment because it circumvents the safety already designed into the system.

[captain]

No one told me not to stop my bike in the middle of the racetrack, I am going to sue because I am too stooopid to comprehend the dangers of parking my bike in the middle and walking to the side to pee.

That is what this baseball thing sounds like....

[tbonebusa]

Another fact lost in the emotion is this: The BPF of 1.15 is designed to keep the rebound performance of the metal or composite bat close to the rebound performance of wood. The bigger issue is the fact that aluminum or composite bats at this level can be made substantially lighter...your typical little league 12 year old these days is swinging a 30 inch bat that weighs in at 19 or 20 ounces. It is nearly imposiible to build a wood bat at 30 inches anywhere near that light of a weight that would not be extremely fragile. We allow those, and the next lawsuit is from the kid who gets speared by the splintered fragment of the shattered wood bat.

This lighter weight leads to higher bat speed, which leads to greater velocity.

A simple solution would be to require pitchers to wear protective head gear, much like Major League and it's farm system have now begun to require base coaches to wear batting helmets following the death of a coach struck by a batted ball. The ball was struck by a wood bat, btw.

[Tiller]

so then why not put a warning on the bat? if everybody already knows this.

9 mph is alot, an 81mph fastball is batting practice...but a 90mph fastball is a different story.

we separate kids baswed on thier abilities, for safety....8 year olds cannot compete with 12 year olds. problem is, the bat can take an 8 year old and give the balls he hits the same velocity as an 11 or 12 year old....

creating an unsafe environment because it circumvents the safety already designed into the system.

And every human being on earth who plays sports or has kids that plays sports know this. They know the type of bats that are made today. And these bats are still in regulation and able to be used. And they still either play or let their kids play based on all this. I'll bet that kid who died used a similar type of bat himself. He then would have been putting every other player at risk when he was hitting. Its just how the game is played. It is no different for anyone else on that field that it was for that kid. If he couldnt handle playing baseball they way it is played today (using bats that are still in regulation tho) then he defniately should not have been on that field.

Im not saying that there should not be a warning sign. I'm saying that all athletes and parents of athletes know the risks of the sports they play. Its just ridiculous that a family turned to sueing for money simply because of this. They we obviously not to worried about the death of their son.

[afterhours]

No one told me not to stop my bike in the middle of the racetrack, I am going to sue because I am too stooopid to comprehend the dangers of parking my bike in the middle and walking to the side to pee.

That is what this baseball thing sounds like....

actually at my new racers school it was stated often.

"do not stop on the track...."

"do not park on the track"

multiple times all day long....

[BlueHaya]

...here's your sign.

[afterhours]

And every human being on earth who plays sports or has kids that plays sports know this. They know the type of bats that are made today. And these bats are still in regulation and able to be used. And they still either play or let their kids play based on all this. I'll bet that kid who died used a similar type of bat himself. He then would have been putting every other player at risk when he was hitting. Its just how the game is played. It is no different for anyone else on that field that it was for that kid. If he couldnt handle playing baseball they way it is played today (using bats that are still in regulation tho) then he defniately should not have been on that field.

Im not saying that there should not be a warning sign. I'm saying that all athletes and parents of athletes know the risks of the sports they play. Its just ridiculous that a family turned to sueing for money simply because of this. They we obviously not to worried about the death of their son.

but that is the point....the jury did not say the bat was the problem....

they said "put a warning on it"

the $850k is for not putting a warning on the bat.......

who does the warning hurt?

everybody keeps saying "parents know the dangers" what little leagues are you going to, my parents at my league are retarded.

[captain]

actually at my new racers school it was stated often.

"do not stop on the track...."

"do not park on the track"

multiple times all day long....

They said it but is there a warning sticker anywhere?