From the farm to your fridge

[MelodicMetalGod]

I'd like to weigh in here so in the interested of full disclosure:

I've been vegetarian for about 10 months and vegan for about 3 months after being a life long meat eater. My choice has been precipitated 100% by my recent education of the factory farming industry and it's treatment of it's product (animals) and my desire to no longer support the cruelty, suffering and abuses to those animals.

I have worked with PETA in educating circus goers on the cruetly imposed by the circus on their animals. I have worked with several lesser known organizations to help educate the general public on the many issues of how animals suffer needlessly for our consumption.

I have always, as in all my life, been more sympathetic to animals, than to most humans. IMHO, animals are innocents. Any harm that they have ever imposed on other living things is either natural or a direct result of their treatment by humans. Humans, on the other hand, are notorious for imposing unthinkable things on themselves and every other living thing on the planet. Much of this happens unwittingly, but, sadly, much of it occurs with malice and forethought and/or a blatant disregard for the target of our choosing.

I have spent considerable time and effort to become educated and familiar with the issues on animal welfare and have worked very hard to discern facts from "sensationlized hyperbole", trying to accept nothing at mere face value. I have visited farms, I have had conversations with experts, I have read books and articles, watched vides and scoured the news. Still, I am in the infancy of education on the matter.

So, when I post here, you know my background. I have no wish to alienate or offend. My agenda is to educate. I will shamelessly admit that I would hope to persuade everyone to become vegan, but I will not chase down anyone who is simply not interested. What I will most definitely do is clarify any point of fact on the issue that I can and do my best to ensure that the truth is presented in all cases.

My belief is that the vast majority, if not all of us, hold ethics and principles that are inconsistent with abusing and killing animals but that most of us are very unaware (I certainly was) of the reality of what happens to provide us with meat, dairy, eggs and other animal products. I believe that as people learn the truth, most will naturally choose to reconsider their choices.

Best to all, including the animals.

[MelodicMetalGod]

A few quick facts about factory farming

Three reasons to stop eating meat and/or dairy and eggs:

1) Your own well being - Plant based diets contain zero cholesterol. Meat based diets are linked to all sorts of health issues, more than I can count, in fact. Virtually all science agrees that a balanced plant based diet is better for our health than a diet of with any significant meat content. We are omnivores, which means we CAN eat anything. It doesn't mean that ANYTHING we eat is good for us, and meat has certainly been shown to present a LOT of health issues and risks.

For the record: I LOVE meat, dairy and eggs. Not sayin' they don't TASTE good, just that they ain't good for us.

2) Environmental benefits - Factory farming is one the most damagin human activities on the planet. Consider this - Factory farming contributes MORE to greenhouse gasses annually than ALL of the exhaust from our transportation activities!!! I was surprised as heck to learn this. It also contributes to water polution and a host of other environmental hazards.

3) For the Animals! - I can say that this is my primary motivator for being vegan. I'm happier to be healthier - my cholesterol dropped 20 points after only 3 months as a vegan. Not bad considering I have been at 200 (borderline) ever since my cholesterol was first tested about 20 years ago. I'm also glad to be contributing less to environmental destruction/pollution. But, for me, it's all about the animals. I love dogs and we currently have a lil' pup that I would do anything for, just as I would for any pet. When I hear of the abuses of other animals, I just consider how I would feel if anything similar happened to my pup... So, I won't standy while those things happen to others anymore than I would standy while bad things happend to my family or friends or you good folks. Anything I can do help, I try to do.

There's a lot of info on all of the above. Google it or visit some of my favorite sites to learn more:

Compassion Over Killing - Probably my favorite organization
Compassion Over Killing

Farm Sanctuary - Another great bunch of folks
Farm Sanctuary | Watkins Glen, NY

PETA - And, of course, these folks. Controversial, but not without merit.
People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA): The animal rights organization | PETA.org
Many are unhappy with their extreme tactics, but before you write them off as a bunch of "crazies", consider their mission statement and see if you don't find some common ground:

People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) is the largest animal rights organization in the world, with more than 2 million members and supporters.

PETA focuses its attention on the four areas in which the largest numbers of animals suffer the most intensely for the longest periods of time: on factory farms, in the clothing trade, in laboratories, and in the entertainment industry. We also work on a variety of other issues, including the cruel killing of beavers, birds, and other "pests" as well as cruelty to domesticated animals.

PETA works through public education, cruelty investigations, research, animal rescue, legislation, special events, celebrity involvement, and protest campaigns.

[Schexy1]

OK, I lied. There is a humane way to treat the animals before they are slaughtered. Kobe beef is a prime exmple. But at $144.00 an ounce, I can't afford it.

But, then the animal has to be killed and that is not humane.

[MelodicMetalGod]

The comments below are all forms of either avoidance, rationalization. The fact that one is using such expression is a prime indication that one is not comfortable with the truth of the matter which implies that the truth is not compatible with one's own philosphies or conscience. This, in turn, suggests that the information that inspires such commentary causes one to recognize that one's behavior is not compatible with our conscious choices.

Please note that I mean no offense or condemnation with my comment above. I was a meat eater until only months ago and I fully understand the conflict that comes with learning the issues after having been raised under completely different beliefs. I only wish to point out the implications of the comments below.

I dont know if I want to know cause then I would know and I dont know that I want to know when I am eating my meat.

Thats why I dont learn

All of the animals in this video are highly modified domestic breads that would not exhist if it were not for man and the meat industry. They barely resemble the animals they decend from... and they're tasty.

What's for dinner?

BEEF!

I do agree that the animals that are raised for food should not be considered pets and be treated as such. But to prod the milk cows with a pitchfork is another story.

I watched a turkey processing plant in Springfield for a day once. I was working right outside replacing a power pole. The trucks come in and deliver live turkeys. At the other end of the building the gut wagon was parked and a chute was shooting out the left overs for dog food or whatever. Some things I dont need to know. It was 3 years before I could eat turkey again. I am not against education, but some things I just simply prefer not to know.

I love meat and eggs, and will continue to eat it, but after watching that, kinda made me sick. Some of the things that were being done to the animals WAS cruel. I could not imagine working in a place like that.

[smac]

Sorry I eat meat, NO desire to change, but I AM educated on the facts! I also do not buy into the premise of global warming.. You will never convince me that what I exhale (c02), on either end, causes global warming.

[MelodicMetalGod]

Chicken ranches is what grosses me out most. I have the privilege of doing a flooring job in a house at a ranch. The smell is very remembered. I still eat chicken though. Like it to much!

Amazing how many love the food they eat,but don't agree with how it comes about, yet still eat it. It's borderline cruel,but they are after all bread to be killed in the 1st place.

Slaves were bred to be slaves but it was not the choice of the slave to be a slave. The fact that they were bred for the purpose of another in no way made it "OK" that they were forced to be slaves.

Similarly, the fact that we breed animals for food does not make that animal any less interested in survival, natural breeding or seeking a comfortable, natural life that is free of pain, torture and abuse.

Consider that many humans have an issue with the using of stem cells b/c this prevents life for the donor source. These animals have it far worse as they are given life only to suffer the entire time they are alive, finding release from ONLY when they actually die, which is often not until after they are well into the slaughter process. If they "kill shot" doesn't kill them, the assembly line is not slowed for the sake of their comfortable death...that would decrease profit. Therefore, the line continues and the chicken is boiled to remove it's feathers, the cow is slashed and bled out and even skinned...dead or, often, ALIVE.

[Commuta_Busa]

It's interesting that this subject came up lately. Just last night on tv I was watching a show where they take a group of regular all food eating people. The common subject was that they all like to eat duck. They brought these people out to a lake and taught them how to duck hunt. Each had to kill and prep their duck. In the end they all sat at a table and compared the tastes between wild duck and farm duck. The common expression was that farm duck was fatter and tasted better (less of a wild game taste). What was interesting was that two of the individuals didn't eat any of it. They said after the entire experience they were turned off from eating duck. While one woman converted from farm duck to wild duck.

It just shows that all people are different. Once everyone has an honest and level education on a subject each individual should make their own decisions which may vary from others.

Next week is bunny rabbit.

[MelodicMetalGod]

The problem is the cost it would cost the consumer. I bet what most would end up consider humane,would cost over 5 times or more what we pay now and we already think we paying to much. So the average person plays the... "what I don't know,won't hurt me" card.

If it was so easy to do,then it would be done. Don't you think? I bet most who don't agree with the process will have some form of meat for dinner.

Organic food at grocery store is suppose to be healthier for us,yet the average shopper doesn't buy it cause of the cost.

Food For Thought...

There was an woman who had autism and designed a more humane way to slaughter cows....

Temple Grandin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Virtually all of the treatment issues are about profit issues for the companies responsible for the abuses. 90% or more of animal products in our grocery stores are the product of factory farming.

Ironically, it takes 3x to 10x as much plant food to raise a cow as it would take to feed us directly. The very industry of meat INCREASES our overall cost. It is relatively cheap to us b/c of the industrialization and massive volume that exists today. But it is hardly financially efficient.

[MelodicMetalGod]

It's interesting that this subject came up lately. Just last night on tv I was watching a show where they take a group of regular all food eating people. The common subject was that they all like to eat duck. They brought these people out to a lake and taught them how to duck hunt. Each had to kill and prep their duck. In the end they all sat at a table and compared the tastes between wild duck and farm duck. The common expression was that farm duck was fatter and tasted better (less of a wild game taste). What was interesting was that two of the individuals didn't eat any of it. They said after the entire experience they were turned off from eating duck. While one woman converted from farm duck to wild duck.

It just shows that all people are different. Once everyone has an honest and level education on a subject each individual should make their own decisions which may vary from others.

Next week is bunny rabbit.

I would be even more interested to know how many auditioned for the show only to drop out b/c they were unwilling to participate in the killing/preping of the animals. I would venture that # would be more than a few.

[MelodicMetalGod]

All of the animals in this video are highly modified domestic breads that would not exhist if it were not for man and the meat industry. They barely resemble the animals they decend from... and they're tasty.

You and I are highly modified version of our ancestors. And there are those that would make the same argument regarding us as food items.

These animals are still sentient, feeling beings that have an instinct to survive and seek a natural life and that are absolutely capable of pain and suffering.

[MelodicMetalGod]

Yikes, that vid is pretty bad, I watched a little and then closed the window. :dontgetit::dontgetit::dontgetit:

Will be interesting to see if an Admin pulls it.

I can't watch it because I can already tell it will upset me. I have a hard enough time eating meat and just based on the comments here, I see I'm a minority. If I just pull it based on my personal feelings, I'm not being fair.

Next mod/admin care to comment?

Why would it be pulled? Is it untrue? Is it gratuitous? Or is it simply that it's unpleasant and causes us to examine the result of our demand for meat?

I sincerely hope that such censorship of the truth would not occur here.

[Commuta_Busa]

I don't wish to argue. This seems to be more emotionally driven than by facts. Often would lead me to believe that this occurs more times than “frequentâ€￾ and way more times than “seldomâ€￾. I don't have facts either way, but in my mind when I read often I’m lead to believe that there is more than 25% chance in a random sample that the cow is still alive. 1 in 4 seems a little contorted. Again, it falls on your definition of “Oftenâ€￾.

the cow is slashed and bled out and even skinned...dead or, often, ALIVE.

I respect your position and your emotions on the subject. I just wanted some clarification.

[Commuta_Busa]

I agree 100% most people can't stomach the harshness involved in the whole process. Regardless of farm raised or wild. It was interesting to listen to each persons thoughts on the whoel experience. Some shrugged it off and others were really taken back and made life changes as a result.

I would be even more interested to know how many auditioned for the show only to drop out b/c they were unwilling to participate in the killing/preping of the animals. I would venture that # would be more than a few.

[MelodicMetalGod]

Its a dirty job and somebody's got to do it. When it becomes sadistic sport is where it crosses the line with me and those people need to find another job.

Pardini hit the nail on the head. PETA will say anything, do anything, like Greenpeace, to frame the discussion. Yet they have no solution other than to not eat meat.

The sadism perpetuated against animals is criminal. I don't know about getting those folks another job. There are strong links between violence/abuse towards animals and later similar crimes against humans.

PETA is VERY agressive, and generally not my cup of tea in that regard. However, they simply use shock to get people thinking. They do that b/c they usual response to the matter is avoidance or learned rationalization. The shock value tends to make people think on their own, one way or another. I must say, I find it ironic that PETA's extremet tactics are so often under fire, yet we never hear of all of the "normal" tactics that they also employ which have created better laws and conditions for animals the world over. It is also ironic that while PETA's tactics are considered so awful, that so many still avoid considering the issues that those tactics invite one to review. For example, what's worse of the following:

a) PETA members throwing red paint on someone's fur coat
b) A fur farm "worker" standing on the neck of a mink/cat/[your choice of defenseless fuzzy animal] until the neck snapped, paralyzing the animal but often not killing it, then skinning it and leaving the often live skinnless animal to slowly die. The "good" news is, the skinned product suffers no marring in the process and therefore the animal/product provides greater market value to the seller.

For the record: b) above is NOT hypothetical. It is common practice at fur farms.

So, which would you say is more inconsistent with our values/philosophies/principles?

[MelodicMetalGod]

I don't wish to argue. This seems to be more emotionally driven than by facts. Often would lead me to believe that this occurs more times than “frequentâ€￾ and way more times than “seldomâ€￾. I don't have facts either way, but in my mind when I read often I’m lead to believe that there is more than 25% chance in a random sample that the cow is still alive. 1 in 4 seems a little contorted. Again, it falls on your definition of “Oftenâ€￾.

I respect your position and your emotions on the subject. I just wanted some clarification.

RE Emotion: I am certainly emotinally invested/driven, but I do try very hard to work with facts rather than emotion. It is the facts that should inspire one's emotion, not the other way round.

Often is defined in such as way as to be fairly ambiguous, so I guess it's a poor word choice in terms of specifics, but I would agree with your definition. Based on the closed door attitude of the industry and the ease with which incidents are uncovered even though there are only tiny numbers of people working to find such things, I would SPECULATE that 25% is a reasonable number. I mean, the industry doesn't cooperate, most folks don't know, most that do know try not to think about it and those that decide to do something are usually passing out flyers instead of getting undercover gigs, yet STILL there is case after case of abuse and cruelty brought to light.

I don't know that specific numbers are available, but it seems to be commonly accepted in both the industry and it's adversaries. There are certainly many documented cases of this and other abuses in the industry.

Information on stats like that is basically unavailable b/c the industry is essentially unregulated and is always uncooperative with any animal welfare interests/groups.

Consider this: There are several states that have or are working on getting state legislation passed that makes it ILLEGAL to film their operations. That's right, they are simply getting laws made to make it ILLEGAL to expose their ILLEGAL activities!!! Wow. But, this is the sort of thing that happens when big money is at stake. And make no mistake, this money is pretty much as big as it gets.

[MelodicMetalGod]

I love meat and eggs, and will continue to eat it, but after watching that, kinda made me sick. Some of the things that were being done to the animals WAS cruel. I could not imagine working in a place like that.

Same here. Love steak. And chicken. And hot dogs. And...well, the list goes on. BUT...

...the question I had to ask myself was this:

"Do I love those foods so much that I'm willing to continue to pay to have someone abuse them for the entire existence, providing them with a hellish life that would only end when it was most profitable to kill them, in a manner that may or may not be humane in any way?"

My answer was no. Realize that I was very naive about the whole farming industry. I thought cows spent their days relaxing in lush fields, with plenty of food and water available whenever they wanted it, retiring to a nice place to rest at night and generally had a nice, happy, leisurely life and, as unfortunate as it was, they had just one bad day that put them on my plate. Even with the rosy picture, I worked very hard to simply not think about what was happening before the grocery store in terms of meat.

As I learned the truth, it became painfully obvious that there was nothing about the farming industry that was compatible with how I would choose to treat animals. Everyone has to make their own choice, but if we are all honest about the reality, I think many more would make a choice in the animals favor.

[MelodicMetalGod]

I'm glad most of my Beef / eggs are farm raised .. My friends a butcher and really tries to be as good to the animals as possible B4 doing what he has to do..
I was vegan for 15 years until I went hungry for a week in the cold , I shot Bambi and been eat'in meat ever since.. Kinda wish I didnt BUT ..

Questions:

1) Why were you a vegan?
2) Why do you "Kinda wish..." you didn't?

[MelodicMetalGod]

I'm glad most of my Beef / eggs are farm raised .. My friends a butcher and really tries to be as good to the animals as possible B4 doing what he has to do..
I was vegan for 15 years until I went hungry for a week in the cold , I shot Bambi and been eat'in meat ever since.. Kinda wish I didnt BUT ..

BTW, a true family run farm that truly treats animals well until "the day" is far better than any factory farming source.

However, I'd like to point out that all of that "Cage Free" and "Free Range" labeling that one sees on products in the grocery store...it means nothing. It's basically nothing more than marketing that brands use to imply that they're "Happy" farms. But that labeling, it's all unregulated, there are no standards that one must comply with to label products in such ways. Only recently are laws being challenged/examined regarding such labeling. So be advised that you must research any individual source to truly know their methods.

[Commuta_Busa]

I respect your position. There are many things wrong in this world and many are done because of money. It's always good when people draw awareness to such issues. The emotional drive is a good thing but your message should remain detached. It makes some middle ground people turned on/off when the emotions fly.

RE Emotion: I am certainly emotinally invested/driven, but I do try very hard to work with facts rather than emotion. It is the facts that should inspire one's emotion, not the other way round.

Often is defined in such as way as to be fairly ambiguous, so I guess it's a poor word choice in terms of specifics, but I would agree with your definition. Based on the closed door attitude of the industry and the ease with which incidents are uncovered even though there are only tiny numbers of people working to find such things, I would SPECULATE that 25% is a reasonable number. I mean, the industry doesn't cooperate, most folks don't know, most that do know try not to think about it and those that decide to do something are usually passing out flyers instead of getting undercover gigs, yet STILL there is case after case of abuse and cruelty brought to light.

I don't know that specific numbers are available, but it seems to be commonly accepted in both the industry and it's adversaries. There are certainly many documented cases of this and other abuses in the industry.

Information on stats like that is basically unavailable b/c the industry is essentially unregulated and is always uncooperative with any animal welfare interests/groups.

Consider this: There are several states that have or are working on getting state legislation passed that makes it ILLEGAL to film their operations. That's right, they are simply getting laws made to make it ILLEGAL to expose their ILLEGAL activities!!! Wow. But, this is the sort of thing that happens when big money is at stake. And make no mistake, this money is pretty much as big as it gets.

[MelodicMetalGod]

Pardini, you make some excellent points below. However, I will debate 2 of them:

1) PETA is extreme, offensive even. But, they are far less offensive than what they rail against. Before writing them all of as "nuts", consider some of their campaigns (and I challenge everyone to visit the links to get a full understanding of these and other issues):

Animal testing - HUGE ISSUE. Including using stray/shelter cats and dogs to see if a new product burns the skin or causes blindness. These could be YOUR pets if they wind up in the wrong shelter.
Dogs in Laboratories | PETA.org

Wool Industry - I know, sheep shearing. Sounds like no big deal, little more than a haricut. Till you learn what they do to the sheep to increase wool output for no sake other than profit:
The Wool Industry | PETA.org

Animals in the Circus: Did everyone know that elephant trainers use MEAT HOOKS on elephants for training? I know I didn't. And that's not the end of it, either.
Animals Used for Entertainment | PETA.org


2) Correlating TV and Video Game violence with real world behavior is theoretical at best:
Media violence research - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
While it may skew our concepts of what it takes to kill something and how clean or messy such an event might be, I don't think it has a major impact on how we feel about real violence or killing. Most of us have watched plenty of the mass media that depicts such things and yet most of us still don't run around killing people indiscriminately. Similarly, there was plenty of violence happening in the world long before TV or video games showed up. Suffice it to say, IMHO, it is the people raising the kid that have the real influence on the kid, not what pictures the kid sees in the fantasy box.

People are conditioned. We watch so much death and destruction everyday, TV, video games etc. we tend to think death comes easy and somehow instant. Bang bang, shoot 'em up they are dead. Nice neat little hole, a trickle, then a puddle of blood. The reality of killing is so far from their sanitary, misconceived assumptions it's shocking to them.

The evolution of soccer moms is great. They live in their own tidy little world, clean hands and empty minds. Dinner is something they pop in the microwave or pick up from the meat counter in it's clean and tidy sanitary package. No blood no gore, the butcher is the guy in the back in a nice white coat running the shiny stainless steel machine. No half a beef hanging on a hook anymore next to the butcher. She goes home worried that her hamburger is getting too warm and will make her Billy sick, goes online to learn how to cook it to the proper temp and prevent cross contamination.

Never once does she consider how her burger was processed for her. Out of sight out of mind. It's easier that way, fits well in her tidy, perfect little world. She pays someone else to do her dirty work for her, so she can watch Ellen or Oprah instead of killing, gutting, skinning and grinding Billy's burger. No urine, feces or blood to clean and dispose of, no worries until..........Oprah or Ellen broadcast a program that stirs her emotions.

Look at all these poor animals in the slaughterhouse waiting to be murdered. The poor California cows that talk and tell jokes on TV commercials. How can people just kill those poor creatures, drag them off with a winch, hang them from a hook, plunge a knife in to them and let their bowels flow out on the floor. She's appalled, her friends saw the show they grow enraged at Starbucks over coffee. Something needs to be done, they Join PETA. Listens to other nut cases that have insights into the minds of cattle and visualize thoughtful animal handling equipment.

Enough is enough she goes vegan and starts to criticize those she has been paying all her life to do her dirty work. She can no longer differentiate her pet from food for her family or her pet from her family. Killing cows for her family to eat seems like killing little Billy himself. Horrible just horrible, she needs to get Meryl Streep to testify before Congress to stop this insanity.

Mean while little Billy is in the other room shouting with glee as he scores his billionth KILL in Grand Theft Auto and is rewarded with a newly unlocked weapon that will Kill another billion even faster.