Freedom discussion I had with some people

[Silent Shogun]

While at work the other day I got into a discussion with some people over the freedoms we have in this country and if it was what the founding fathers envisioned. I was curious as to what others thought. Do you feel you have the freedom to do what you choose (Short of anything blatantly criminal ie Stealing, murder, etc) ?

I feel many times we have our Freedoms taken away in the name of Safety and the "common good". Many of these happen on the local level by do gooder community panels and etc.

What am i talking about? How about the Vets who can't fly the American Flag because of the HOA. In VA I remember you couldn't even be in your own front yard with open alcohol or you could be arrested for Public Intox.
The Freedoms we had outlined in the constitution seem to have so many stipulations on it that it makes me doubt those freedoms sometimes.

Right to Bear arms? Govt/People want to take it away and can't so they limit the amount of Ammo you can have or type as a backdoor way of limiting your right to bear arms....

Freedom of Speech? Freedom of Assembly? Only if you fill out all these forms first and get approved by the local authority....

Unreasonable search and siezure? Cops were pulling people over in my area just to do vehicle safety checks the other day..not to mention all the Homeland security initiatives that let the Feds tap everyones phones and internet without a warrant.

Right to pursue happiness as you see fit? Only if your happiness fits into a groups idea of what is considered "normal"...

Your right to vote for Govt officials? Good luck with that when Corporations and Lobbyists can buy out officials according the the supreme court.

That and many other things you can't do or are limited by rules and regulations and red tape all in the name of Safety or the common good? How many times are we going to allow self imposed stipulations put on our Freedoms? We tried to name Freedoms we had that didn't come with stipulation on them in any way.....we were hard pressed.

Just a hodgepodge of thoughts.

 

[BusaWhipped]

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

That said, liberty isn't carte blanche for anarchy. Liberty requires people to be responsible for their actions, which we has not become the American way. Not that I agree with the laws that are passed to protect us from ourselves.

The flag issue has nothing to do with Liberty. It didn't have anything to do with his flying the flag. He violated the bylaws with the height of the pole he was flying it on. The HOA's main role is to maintain the property values of all of the owners in the association. That is accomplished through a set of bylaws for the community every resident must sign before moving into the community. This is a legaly binding contract you go into voluntarily with the HOA. It has nothing to do with the Government.

 

[Silent Shogun]

That said, liberty isn't carte blanche for anarchy. Liberty requires people to be responsible for their actions, which we has not become the American way. Not that I agree with the laws that are passed to protect us from ourselves.

The flag issue has nothing to do with Liberty. It didn't have anything to do with his flying the flag. He violated the bylaws with the height of the pole he was flying it on. The HOA's main role is to maintain the property values of all of the owners in the association. That is accomplished through a set of bylaws for the community every resident must sign before moving into the community. This is a legaly binding contract you go into voluntarily with the HOA. It has nothing to do with the Government.

I know the guy signed into the HOA and knew the rules before hand...but that is what i was referring to self imposed stipulations.....you sign away "freedoms" to be a little safer with your property values.....Now you can't fly a flag, paint your house, put up a fence, do any landscaping, or cut your grass above or below a set hieight without approval from some group.....Your own home! Stepford wives was supposed to be a work of Fiction! lol.

Another example today....went to get some adult beverages this morning and went early to beat the crowds....get up to the counter and was told i can't purchase Alcohol before 10AM.... uhhhh...why??? More rules some govt officials passed for whatever reason.

Don't get me wrong...I love this country. I served and am very proud of the fact..I know how much worse it could be....I just don't want to wake up one morning and feel like I'm in V for Vendetta with curfews and so many rules and regulations in place to "protect us from ourselves". Happy Independence day ALL.

 

[nabusa]

And as months go by the will continue to take our freedom away little by little until they day comes we all live like in the movie Demolition Man.

 

[BusaWhipped]

I know the guy signed into the HOA and knew the rules before hand...but that is what i was referring to self imposed stipulations.....you sign away "freedoms" to be a little safer with your property values.....Now you can't fly a flag, paint your house, put up a fence, do any landscaping, or cut your grass above or below a set hieight without approval from some group.....Your own home!

However, it is something you go into voluntarily knowing all of the rules in advance. You have the freedom not to purchase a proprty in the HOA if you do not agree with their bylaws. Its a business contract, not a civil liberties issue.

 

[BusaWhipped]

And as months go by the will continue to take our freedom away little by little until they day comes we all live like in the movie Demolition Man.

And there are many people that will scream foul about this when it's taking away something they want and cheer support for it when it's something they want to take away from others.

 

[Silent Shogun]

And there are many people that will scream foul about this when it's taking away something they want and cheer support for it when it's something they want to take away from others.

Unfortunately, you are 100% correct there.

 

[kromdom]

Rights and Responsibilities should go hand-in-hand. Sadly, many forget/ignore/disrgard the latter part. Or worse, are totally ignorant of it.

 

[PocketRocket]

Never forget the movie RED DAWN

 

[Gpmo]

hmm
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[smac]

They who give up liberty for safety deserve neither.


Benjamin Franklin

 

[F=MA]

One of the struggles every government that has ever existed has had to do is find the appropriate balance between freedom and order. Over the last decade in the U.S., the pendulum has definitely swung more towards the order side.

The ironically named "Patriot Act", signed in the confusion and paranoia prevalent after the 9/11 attack, turned every bank - and even gas stations and grocery stores that sell money orders, into unpaid spies for the goverment.

One could get much of the American electorate to eat a turd if it was presented in a flag-colored bun.

 

[dadofthree]

Well I haven't been flamed today, so ; I really don't care if people watch what I do bc I operate within the law. I really don't think anyone cares about the particulars of my boring life. Well other than to get a chuckle or two.

 

[moloko]

Posted via Mobile Device

 

[Schexy1]

That said, liberty isn't carte blanche for anarchy. Liberty requires people to be responsible for their actions, which we has not become the American way. Not that I agree with the laws that are passed to protect us from ourselves.

The flag issue has nothing to do with Liberty. It didn't have anything to do with his flying the flag. He violated the bylaws with the height of the pole he was flying it on. The HOA's main role is to maintain the property values of all of the owners in the association. That is accomplished through a set of bylaws for the community every resident must sign before moving into the community. This is a legaly binding contract you go into voluntarily with the HOA. It has nothing to do with the Government.

Actually the HOA incident is a perfect example of liberty.

First, the main purpose of the HOA is not to protect property values otherwise homeowners would have to be compensated when values drop. The HOAs main goal was to promote harmonious living in neighborhoods through cooperation and adherence of general guidelines not covered by government ordnances. HOAs are supposed to settle minor disagreements between residents, implement things like neighborhood watch and beautification.

Protecting property values was supposed to be a by-product of the programs and actions that the neighborhood adopted. But, as of lately HOAs have become a business that sells a product “protection of property valuesâ€￾ with no warrantee.

How does this relate to liberty? First, HOA stands for “Home Owners Associationâ€￾. One would think that as a “home ownerâ€￾, one has some say in the rules and by-laws adopted by the “associationâ€￾. Instead in some HOAs, the home owner has the right to vote for a board member, who may not even live in the neighborhood, at an annual meeting. That board member along with other board members makes and modifies the rules that the home owner has to live by. So in a sense many HOAs are setup just like our local state and federal governments. HOAs add another level of government and forces us to live under another set of rules.



What happens when the board approves a rule, regulation, fee or process that the majority of the “Home Ownersâ€￾ in the “Associationâ€￾ don’t agree with? Well, according to many of you, because they agreed to live there they have to accept what the majority opposes. But, by doing so they just relinquished all of the rights and privileges of being a property owner. Kinda funny how we can buy into (with money and mind) a self governing body in which you have no say, only a false sense of representation.

Governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed;

When the governing body does thing that goes against the will and consent of the governed, “Liberty is Lostâ€￾.

 

[winlite]

Wouldn't you like to know that no matter how bad things went for you that you could keep the home you worked hard for. The home that took years to pay for. Well if you can't pay your property taxes it will be taken from you at gunpoint. So yes we have lost some freedom.
Getting groped and electronically searched at airports, bus stations, and train stations without probable cause , a loss of 4th amendment rights.
A bird in a cage is secure but not free.

 

[cqt1414]

maybe we should reformulate our liberties based on north korea?

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

Never forget the movie RED DAWN

A Wolverine I am