Fatal Crashes in Land Speed Racing

[TZ750d]

Until 2008, NO motorcycle rider in Land Speed Racing
had died in competition in the major races
in the United States.

Since that time five (5) men - no women - have
died - some without good explanations.

Some crashes - Like Dave Owen at Maxton NC.
are well investigated by professionals, and the
causes carefully determined.

Some just silently fade into memory,
and if there is any investigation,
it is never made available to the public.

A few crashes are video'd, and cause and effect
can be visualized, measured and discussed.

With the increasing speeds and participation
in LSR by motorcycle riders, there needs
to be some discussion about causes of
crashes, and prevention.

Your thoughts ?

Scott

 

[TZ750d]

This is a good piece on Ron Cook's
two accidents at El Mirage in about 1998.

You will see that this crash is a WEAVE
(rear wheel) and NOT a wobble (front wheel)

A) It is unusual for a motorcycle to have
a violent, crash inducing "weave."

B) it is very unusual to have the crash video taped.

C) It is highly unusual to the same rider to have
the "same" crash on the "same" bike.

D I believe that this is the ONLY video of
the same rider, on the same bike having
the same crash - only 2 weeks apart - and
having it video taped.....

Don't need to do much reconstruction here,
the tape shows it all !

This video runs a while - but
it is worth every minute !

MPH Motorcycle Crash - YouTube[/url]


By the way, it is easy to "reconstruct" Ron's speed
when he starts sliding on the dirt.

1) The narator reports 588 feet of sliding.

2) The bike can be seen (and heard) making
substantial deceleration after passing
through the exit of the traps.

3) Studies of pedestrians sliding on dirt
after impact from a car suggest that
a "drag factor" of about 1.3 is appropriate
for this crash to calculate speed.

3) Speed is calculated by using the
standard formula of:

Speed = square root of 30 x drag factor x
distance sliding, or
S = square root of 30 x 1.3 x 588,

So: S = 151 MPH.

So, Ron had some pretty healthy deceleration
BEFORE he started sliding.

Probably saved his life !

 

[TZ750d]

Some of you will recall Jason McVicar's
horrible Bonneville crash of a few years
ago, in August.

Jason was riding my bike.

I was an eye witness, and was
the first "Civilian" to Jason after
the crash........

Crash Interview with Jason McVicar - YouTube[/url]

We can see Jason was "high sided" forward
of the crashing bike. Jason was projected
almost horizontally from the saddle.

Using a standard formula,
we can calculate the time for jason
to fall to the saly surface from his
center-of-gravity's height of 36 inches.

The time would be about 0.43 sec.s

The debris field
( I investigate this accident)
was about 1,800 feet long.

Assuming Jason starts ejection
when the blown-tyre debris appears,
than the whole of Jason's VERY high
speed is lost in the 1800 feet of the crash.

Jason reports the "Bang" of the exploding
tyre happens when he is traveling
"only in the mid 240's"

The bike "spins" anti-clockwise for
about 100 feet, and then ejects
Jason into the air.

Jason, whatt falling 3 feet to the salt,
travels about 150 feet down the track.

If Jason slides on the Salt with the
same coefficient of drag as Ron Wood
slid at El Mirage, than his speed ca
be calculated in the same way:

1) S = square root of 30 x 1.3 x 1550 feet
(1800 - 100 - 150 = 1550)

2) S= sq root of 60,450

3) S = 245 MPH

 

[dadofthree]

Fatalities in LSR


Obviously Suzuki is to blame. With the introduction of the Hayabusa in 1999, top speeds have grown tremendously.

 

[GsxrBots]

Fatalities in LSR


Obviously Suzuki is to blame. With the introduction of the Hayabusa in 1999, top speeds have grown tremendously.

Especially and obviously in 2008 with the release of the black Gen2..

 

[TZ750d]

Fred Vance said about his over-200 MPH crash
at Bonneville a few years ago:

"When I went down at Bonneville,
My speed at the 2 mile was 208.

I went down just past the 2mi. I was
lucky and came off the bike immediately.

The bike never tumbled and
slid through the lights at the 21/4 at 168.

I slid right up to within a foot from the 21/4 lights.

Walked away, lost about a pound of ass. "

 

[TZ750d]

Fred: Assume you lost very little speed getting off,
but it took 250 feet to make that decision and to
"hit the salt."

Speed = S = 1280 - 250 = 1030 feet sliding.

s + Sq rt of 30 x 1.3 x 1030 = 200 MPH.

Bike usually is less than 1/2 the drag
of a leathers clad human. = about 0.60

168 --> 0 @ f=0.60 about = 1,568 feet.

subtract about feet for the bike to fall on it's side: 450 ft
(after all, it's not immediate)
(see the other films of motorcycle wobbles)

(@ 208 MPH, 450 feet takes 1.5 seconds)

1280 - 450 = 830 feet

add 830 to 1,568 = 2,398 feet overall feet of sliding @ 0.60
Speed of bike = sq rt of 2,398 x 30 c 0.60 = sq root of4,316

Intiial speed of bike about = 207.76 MPH

No magic, just science.

Scott

 

[GNBRETT]

still a hellove a lot safer then riding on the street. a lot of the LSR bikes are makn 650 hp which is a LOT even for a car to most people. I think it has to do with people biting off more then they can chew....???

 

[sixpack577]

It's unfortunate, as I hate to hear of anyone crashing, let alone dieing.
But the fact remains...that's the risk you take.

 

[Had2]

It's unfortunate, as I hate to hear of anyone crashing, let alone dieing.
But the fact remains...that's the risk you take.

True story, if you havent considered what could happen you have no buisness out there making these world record attempts, hell for that matter if youve never considered what could happen opening one of these monsters up on the highway you have no buisness even putting your leg over the seat

 

[Commuta_Busa]

Hi Scott - glad to see you around the LSR "stuff".

Still wish some things would have been answered about the DaveO incident.

I agree with you that there does need to be more discussion around incidents that have occurred. Anything that may help prevent a similar incident in the future benefits all. I'm sure it's a challenge to find the root cause.

All I can tell people is to check and recheck a bike before making a fast pass. I discovered a leaking brake line on my bike right before a pass. It meant I was done for the weekend but at least I didn't risk having an incident.

Ken

 

[schroetf]

nobody is making you go fast--if you don't want to go fast buy a little bike--

 

[TZ750d]

FATAL and POTENTIALLY FATAL
INCIDENTS in PAVEMENT LSR EVENTS.

1) Karl Gunter – - - - - shutdown
– Beeville - survived

2) Billy Shoemaker – shutdown
– Beeville - survived

3a) Bill Warner – - - - - shutdown
– Beeville – survived

4) Jerry Wayne Lyons - track
Beeville - DIED

3b) Bill Warner –- shutdown –
ECTA Maxton - survived

3c) Bill Warner – - shutdown –
ECTA Maxton - survived

5) Guy Lombardi -shutdown –
ECTA – Maxton - DIED

6) Dave Owen – -- -shutdown –
ECTA – Maxton – DIED

7) T J Cannon----- - track -
ECTA – Maxton – survived

8) Debbie Dross – shutdown -
ECTA – Maxton - survived

9) Gerald Deneau –shutdown -
ECTA – Wilmington - DIED

10) Donna Timney- shutdown –
ECTA – W’ton – survived


3d) Bill Warner - - -track and shutdown
– Loring - DIED

11) John Noonan – track –
Mojave mile - survived

Short summary:

Fourteen (14) incidents
Eleven (11) individuals involved
Ten (10) year time span
Ten (10) involved shutdown
Five (5) deaths

Contrast:

Several incidents at Bonneville
and El Mirage – zero (0) deaths

 

[dadofthree]

That's because they're wide open spaces. In the last video i viewed it showed where Bill crossed a runway light, heavy concrete/medal raised obstacle. Sheering the fixture and conduit, and leaving deep gashes in the base. That's a dayum shame.

 

[isiahstites]

I was crewing with Noonan at Mojave when he crashed and I watched it from the que as I was next to in line to run........scared the holy living **** out of me........I thought he was gone. With all of these crashes, some amazing people that are much better racers than I. I have scaled back my goals and LSR ambitions.......WHY? Not because I don't think I can reach them, because I have a little girl who needs her daddy more than I need another record to nail to the wall.

I will still race but I will be going after the slower records.

Scott

 

[TZ750d]

Deaths in pavement
motorcycle LSR racing

Comparisons:

NASCAR

Some assumptions:

Average NASCAR Cup race= 400 miles
Average # racers = 33
Average # laps per race = 160
Average # miles per driver, per race = 10,000
( 25 finishers @ 2.5 x 160 )

Total races / season = 25

Total racing miles / season = 250,000

Deaths / season (fraction) = 0.2

Deaths / mile raced = 1 per 1,250,000


Motorcycle Land speed racing
on pavement

8-10 tracks, of which maybe 5 - 6 tracks
offer motorcycle racing

About 10 motorcycle LSR races / year

# motorcycle entrants racing, about = 50
Miles raced per entrant, about = 3
(many folks make one run, some don’t
race at all. A few make 10 or more runs)

10 races x 50 riders x 3 miles = 1,500 motorcycle
racing miles per year.

Deaths about = per year = 5 / 5.5 = 0.9
(2008 – present (5 total)

2008  mid 2013 about = 5.5 years)

So: Motorcycle LRS on pavement, riders about
( 1,500 / 0.9 = 1,667 miles) one / 1,667 miles raced

Discussion:

With maybe 50 finishers, the Daytona 200 motorcycle
race would have about 10,000 miles raced each year.

At LSR’s rate of fatalities, than would mean
(10,000 / 1,667 = 6) six riders would die EACH YEAR


That would mean, if only veterans died, that
we would have a complete new field of racers
every 9-10 years, and NO survivors after 10 years…..

In NASCAR, at a fatality of one per 1,667 miles,

If each race represents 10,000 miles driven,
than (10,000 / 1,667 = 6) 6 drivers would die
EVERY RACE).

In one season of 25 NASCAR races, there would be
(25 x 6 = 150) 150 deaths.
A complete new field every 6 races.

NASCAR would have to replace EACH DRIVER
more than 4 - 6 times per year !

Conclusions:

Motorcycle LSR is possibly the most
dangerous motor racing in the world.


WHY DO WE PUT UP WITH THIS ?

 

[sixpack577]

What do you mean "Why do we put up with this?".
Because; People want to go fast, some want to break records, and some just want to go as fast as possible.
Who's to say they can't? It's done in a controlled environment with as much safety precaution taken as possible.
The only risk is to the riders...whom are well aware of the chances they take.
Is the risk worth the gain? Only the individual can answer that.
How many of the people that crashed and survived(or didn't)thought that they would ever crash? Who knows, but I bet it's a heck of a thrill and it caught them off guard.
I've been gps'd 190's(over 1 mile, not lsr), and it's a rush.
I've also had my share of high falls and big MX crashes. Sometimes you can save it, sometimes you're in slow motion and it's too late to save it, and sometimes you just have no idea what happened.
Regardless, you just keep going back and doing it again until the drive in you is no longer. Be it from injury, age, or kids.
Some people never lose the drive...or die trying.
Some people like to watch tv, cook, garden, whatever, and those are all fine. Some of us like to ride motorcycles, and push our limits to go as far as we can.
More people are dieing in LSR because the drive and ability to go faster has increased to a more dangerous level.
Once someone sets the bar so high and proves what can be done, it takes the mental block off of countless others.
Gains increase rapidly from these points, and this applies to most things in life too.
No one should ever dare step in and attempt to limit others, especially for reasons that they themselves cannot comprehend.
This life is our gift and we can do with it as we please, to each their own.
If you don't understand "why", then, you just don't understand

 

[isiahstites]

Well said 6 pack

 

[sixpack577]

Well said 6 pack

Thank you sir.

 

[TZ750d]

No one should ever dare step in and attempt to limit others,
especially for reasons that they themselves cannot comprehend.

Hmmm....What if they are an obvious danger
to themselves and to others......?