Gpmo
Registered
How was your nap? Being asleep for the past four years must have left you well rested, eh?
Better 4 years than your whole life Tuf. Let me know when you wake up. Warning there may be some atrophy.
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Did anyone hear about this? Michigan, union gangnam.
- Thread starter Defiant
- Start date
Better 4 years than your whole life Tuf. Let me know when you wake up. Warning there may be some atrophy.
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hello all, this is one of your friendly neighborhood moderators...i know most of us are going through some nasty "can't get out and ride" weather and will be for several more months...in the meantime, i and the other mod/admins are extremely busy and don't have time to babysit...therefore, please accept this friendly warning that going across the lines will not be tolerated as we just don't have the time and/or patience to deal with it this winter...if you think what you are typing might stir someone else up and cause them to react negatively, leave the thread without posting it and maintain your active membership...almost everyone on here is adults so enough said...thank you for your cooperation and we are glad to have each and every one of you here to add to the experience that is the .org
Gpmo
Registered
...this has been a public service message......
Roflmao.
I figure while we are all trying to help each other I would pass this on.. When I read your post it immediately came across to me as condescending and arrogant. To start a response with a directive doesn't really provide for buy in from the reader, "Use your words better if you want to start a conversation" might not be a good place for you to start a conversation in my small opinion. Maybe you could have started out with a disclaimer of " May I offer a suggestion" or "Here is what I see" or "I don't think I agree, can we clarify"..
It's all in the eyes of the reader right?
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Gpmo
Registered
You would be correct sir, I cannot disagree. It was arrogant and it was direct. It was purposeful. It was a direct response to the exact same attitude given. Equal and opposite and all of that.
As for the it's all in the eyes of the reader... That's a very interesting conversation. A friend and I have often. He believes it is the job of initial communicator to reasonably explain their thought and should not be left to the listener to decipher. I'm unsure if that's right thought.
Defiant
Registered
Very interesting, I did watch the 16 minutes of "Young Turks" in your first link. It looks like 2nd link was the same with a additional minute. Correct me if I'm wrong.
In your first turk video post, he doesn't refer to why the governor initiated this action. Skydivr, in his post does reiterate why the governor did carry this out. You can believe the governor or not or you can believe the 'turk' (conspiracy)? I'm more inclined to believe the governor unless someone has some Nixon like tapes with the collusion recorded on it.
The turk vid does reiterate that a (small, big, ?) part of the union money goes to the democratic party. The turk repeats it in the video more than once but starts at 40 seconds into it. Around the same time he, in short, describes non union members as freeloaders. If you are ok with the union dues ending up in the democratic party, you probably don't care about this point. FYI if your a union member, where the money goes, is suppose to be on the 'down low'.
The turk vid also reiterates the normal description of non union workers as 'freeloaders'. For anyone who doesn't know, Unions are fully allowed to negotiate union member only contracts. Non union members can be left out of any union member only contracts. This seems to negate their 'freeloader' argument to me. Please explain it to me logically if it doesn't. They can be 'forced' to sign contracts with no paid vacations and have to work weekends with no piss breaks. You may still feel they are freeloading somehow because they are non union but I wouldn't know since the IT industry doesn't have a union. I still get my weekends off mostly but I do work on some weekends to keep an eye on things for peace of mind. That's just me though, a freeloader.
As far as the how news worthy this incident is and whether or not you agree with all the turks opinion on the events, I encourage you to watch the more complete video of the matter in my link above, it's less than the 15 minutes of the turk vid, I think. It's an eye opener to see how light hearted the turk is of the video of what happened.
For you regular watchers of the turks, please let us know how the tea party protests were reported for a comparison.
At the end of the day, the only thing that changed to my knowledge is that you can now choose to work in union present jobs without being forced by the state to pay union dues even if you choose not to join the union. I hope the facts others and I posted here will help you make an informed opinion on the matter.
As far as wording goes, Liberals usually have a double standard on when they get offended. No way of wording would not have offended Gpmo and his numerous news sources. Illinois is full of "I apologize if I was misunderstood" speeches so I will not suffer anyone here with the same. I'm glad he got to plug his 'word it nicely' speech. I have a long way to go to get to his post count.
On another matter, it's good to seem Gpmo doesn't harass Christmas Carlos. That's what headsets are for. I hope he does the same to Christmas Carolers.
In your first turk video post, he doesn't refer to why the governor initiated this action. Skydivr, in his post does reiterate why the governor did carry this out. You can believe the governor or not or you can believe the 'turk' (conspiracy)? I'm more inclined to believe the governor unless someone has some Nixon like tapes with the collusion recorded on it.
The turk vid does reiterate that a (small, big, ?) part of the union money goes to the democratic party. The turk repeats it in the video more than once but starts at 40 seconds into it. Around the same time he, in short, describes non union members as freeloaders. If you are ok with the union dues ending up in the democratic party, you probably don't care about this point. FYI if your a union member, where the money goes, is suppose to be on the 'down low'.
The turk vid also reiterates the normal description of non union workers as 'freeloaders'. For anyone who doesn't know, Unions are fully allowed to negotiate union member only contracts. Non union members can be left out of any union member only contracts. This seems to negate their 'freeloader' argument to me. Please explain it to me logically if it doesn't. They can be 'forced' to sign contracts with no paid vacations and have to work weekends with no piss breaks. You may still feel they are freeloading somehow because they are non union but I wouldn't know since the IT industry doesn't have a union. I still get my weekends off mostly but I do work on some weekends to keep an eye on things for peace of mind. That's just me though, a freeloader.
As far as the how news worthy this incident is and whether or not you agree with all the turks opinion on the events, I encourage you to watch the more complete video of the matter in my link above, it's less than the 15 minutes of the turk vid, I think. It's an eye opener to see how light hearted the turk is of the video of what happened.
For you regular watchers of the turks, please let us know how the tea party protests were reported for a comparison.
At the end of the day, the only thing that changed to my knowledge is that you can now choose to work in union present jobs without being forced by the state to pay union dues even if you choose not to join the union. I hope the facts others and I posted here will help you make an informed opinion on the matter.
As far as wording goes, Liberals usually have a double standard on when they get offended. No way of wording would not have offended Gpmo and his numerous news sources. Illinois is full of "I apologize if I was misunderstood" speeches so I will not suffer anyone here with the same. I'm glad he got to plug his 'word it nicely' speech. I have a long way to go to get to his post count.
On another matter, it's good to seem Gpmo doesn't harass Christmas Carlos. That's what headsets are for. I hope he does the same to Christmas Carolers.
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Gpmo
Registered
Very interesting, I did watch the 16 minutes of "Young Turks" in your first link. It looks like 2nd link was the same with a additional minute. Correct me if I'm wrong.
In your first turk video post, he doesn't refer to why the governor initiated this action. Skydivr, in his post does reiterate why the governor did carry this out. You can believe the governor or not or you can believe the 'turk' (conspiracy)? I'm more inclined to believe the governor unless someone has some Nixon like tapes with the collusion recorded on it.
The turk vid does reiterate that a (small, big, ?) part of the union money goes to the democratic party. The turk repeats it in the video more than once but starts at 40 seconds into it. Around the same time he, in short, describes non union members as freeloaders. If you are ok with the union dues ending up in the democratic party, you probably don't care about this point. FYI if your a union member, where the money goes, is suppose to be on the 'down low'.
The turk vid also reiterates the normal description of non union workers as 'freeloaders'. For anyone who doesn't know, Unions are fully allowed to negotiate union member only contracts. Non union members can be left out of any union member only contracts. This seems to negate their 'freeloader' argument to me. Please explain it to me logically if it doesn't. They can be 'forced' to sign contracts with no paid vacations and have to work weekends with no piss breaks. You may still feel they are freeloading somehow because they are non union but I wouldn't know since the IT industry doesn't have a union. I still get my weekends off mostly but I do work on some weekends to keep an eye on things for peace of mind. That's just me though, a freeloader.
As far as the how news worthy this incident is and whether or not you agree with all the turks opinion on the events, I encourage you to watch the more complete video of the matter in my link above, it's less than the 15 minutes of the turk vid, I think. It's an eye opener to see how light hearted the turk is of the video of what happened.
For you regular watchers of the turks, please let us know how the tea party protests were reported for a comparison.
At the end of the day, the only thing that changed to my knowledge is that you can now choose to work in union present jobs without being forced by the state to pay union dues even if you choose not to join the union. I hope the facts others and I posted here will help you make an informed opinion on the matter.
As far as wording goes, Liberals usually have a double standard on when they get offended. No way of wording would not have offended Gpmo and his numerous news sources. Illinois is full of "I apologize if I was misunderstood" speeches so I will not suffer anyone here with the same. I'm glad he got to plug his 'word it nicely' speech. I have a long way to go to get to his post count.
On another matter, it's good to seem Gpmo doesn't harass Christmas Carlos. That's what headsets are for. I hope he does the same to Christmas Carolers.
I'd give you 100$ if you could convince my company to let us wear head sets
. I'm fairly good at tuning it all out but those songs seem to get the volume turned up on them for some reason. Do Christmas carolers even still exist?Btw I'm not a liberal. Independent. And I believe there was a way to start the conversation with out offending anyone.
I think that the freeloader thing is weird. I don't understand the logic.
The law also makes it so folks are not supporting political party's or candidates that they don't agree with, from their dues. I think this is a good thing.
Colen , thank you. Don't know about the posting of threads that might upset someone, but we sure could get away from personal attacks guys. It doesn't further the cause. Healthy debates are great.
Besides everyone should know how twisted media outlets are. We need to become intelligent receivers
Well I will give them a thumbsup for stating that those that broke the law should be dealt with. However they go on to say they understand it and it was deserved. They mention the tent but give the impression it was alright to tear it down, but not with people in it. Most people in the media are members of a union IMO and from what I've heard stated over the years. Their arguments are weak. Freeloaders, well they are in a sense, but what they really are , are free workers and we all know they will be harassed and treated badly in the work place. Everything you hear or read should be taken with a grain of salt and thought about, not just taken as fact or the way it should be.
Defiant
Registered
Consider yourself lucky, I can wear headphones but I haven't figured out a way to rig nose filters for the guy who works at the desk behind me and I have to be at my desk for long periods of time. 
We use to 'induce' people to bathe in the military but they frown on it in the civilian world. ???
We use to 'induce' people to bathe in the military but they frown on it in the civilian world. ???I'd give you 100$ if you could convince my company to let us wear head sets
Btw I'm not a liberal. Independent. And I believe there was a way to start the conversation with out offending anyone.
I think that the freeloader thing is weird. I don't understand the logic.
The law also makes it so folks are not supporting political party's or candidates that they don't agree with, from their dues. I think this is a good thing.
i am union have been for years, i have had company's try to close plants from under me because they wanted to move and get "competitive wages", we thugs simply voted to let them close it. no protests, no "thuggery". worked with them under past contract until they came to the table saying..."we are sorry we made a mistake". (and a 3 dollar raise to boot over the contract term of 4 years) the company is still there today (i left for a higher paying wage with another union employer GE) and they are adding 30 more employees due to how well they are doing (back to pre-closing permanent lay offs). this being said. i also agree if folks want to work for a company that has union employees they don't have to join the union. but it is WRONG WRONG WRONG to make the union negotiate for them and not be compensated. if you want to work for the company then you take whatever "package" they offer you as a non union employee. unions were created because of the UNFAIR labor practices (this includes safety not only wages and benefits) the government creating "right to work states" is passing the buck to the unions to pay and work and monitor labor situations for the "best interest" of the worker.....no that is the GOVERNMENTS responsibility by placing and enforcing labor laws!!! we are in the greatest time in US history where corporations have the highest profits and the wages are at their all time lowest compared to the GNP.
http://money.cnn.com/2012/12/03/news...its/index.html
we have yet to see the results of said "best interest of the worker" but based on my personal experience with unions, there is no such thing as thuggery, only fighting back (and what i mean by fighting back is filing grievances and standing up to the contract wording and holding the company to the contract) from years of KNOWING the underhanded sneaky things company's do to cut the workers throats no matter how well they work.
http://money.cnn.com/2012/12/03/news...its/index.html
we have yet to see the results of said "best interest of the worker" but based on my personal experience with unions, there is no such thing as thuggery, only fighting back (and what i mean by fighting back is filing grievances and standing up to the contract wording and holding the company to the contract) from years of KNOWING the underhanded sneaky things company's do to cut the workers throats no matter how well they work.
Unions started out for a good reason however they have become legalized organized extortionists. You wouldn't believe how many times I have handed a check to a "business manager" not made out to his local union, but to him personally, to avoid a picket. I wonder how much of that money all of his union brothers got..... I have had some good experiences with union workers, mostly electricians. The negative experiences far exceed the positive ones. For the most part, these guys have this false sense of entitlement and will stand around and do nothing but still collect a paycheck because their employer is unable to reprimand them for fear of being harassed by the union. Ask a carpenter to clean up his work area because it is unsafe, his response will be "you need to talk to the laborers about that". These are my experiences and because of them, I am glad that someone is finally making the union accountable.
Argilbertson
Registered
Further coverage indicates that the tape presented on Fox news was edited, and was presented differently than true events.
Here's further coverage from Young Turks:
Fox News Union Fight Tape Selectively Edited - YouTube[/url]
Here's further coverage from Young Turks:
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I don’t like absolute statements saying all unions are bad (or good for that matter).
I have worked for the Federal Government for 32 years. I was a member of the union for 20. I resigned from the union because of the practices I was observing. I felt my dues were being spent to defend people and their actions I felt did not deserve attention.
Because of this union, I had to suffer working in indoor areas where smoking was allowed in the workplace for several years after the government started placing restrictions on it.
Because of this union I have worked first hand with a few people that were on a “working welfare” program. Removing an employee is an almost impossible task anymore.
Many of the officers of the union are not people you would likely hire. If you did, I would doubt you would keep them for any length of time. They have an entitlement attitude and it shows in their work ethics.
Because of the union, workers are placed in or displaced from areas that cause losses in efficiency. Losses like this would reduce profits and/or close down private companies. In this case it costs the taxpayers (me and you) more money and creates a poor working environment for many employees.
I worked in a section that installed and maintained complex electrical systems from many different manufacturers and in different settings. . We had an open position. Because of a reduction in another area, a person was placed in the open position because she “minimally qualified” for the job. The job she moved from was electronics. She worked on circuit boards that you plugged into test equipment and it told her what components needed to be replaced. She had absolutely no troubleshooting skills. A year later she still could not perform any task and was simply tagging along as an unneeded helper “training”. It was obvious she lacked a basic electrical and electronics knowledge to have the trouble shooting skill set needed. Then we had a forced reduction and lost a position in our area. Because of “seniority” she keeps her slot and we lost a guy that had been working in that shop performing work for 15 years. Ironically, he went to the same area where she came from 16-18 month prior.
I know there are some good things they do, but I could go on and on with the things I have seen first- hand. I felt I did not need to finance their activities anymore.
They still are required to “represent” me, and I don’t agree that they should be required to do that.
Another case
I wish I could remember 100% of the details. Oklahoma City had a GM assembly plant that opened in the late 70s. They built cars for years. Across the street was a loading and unloading railroad lot. Cars and Trucks coming into the OKC area by rail were delivered here and loaded onto Semi trailers for delivery to the dealers. Cars built in the plant were driven across the street and loaded onto the rails.
In the late 90s it switched to a truck (SUVs - Envoy and Trailblazers) assembly plant. Because the union contracts were different for cars vs the SUVs, they could not load them across the street for shipping anymore. They had to transport them by trucks about 10-12 miles and unload them and then load on rail. Loss to GM efficiency and profits and/or resulting to higher costs of product to the consumer. For what reason, to protect jobs? There was not a “Job” to haul them before the switch.
There were tons of issues at that plant because of tight union control and influence. I know several people that were employed there. Some of it was unbelievable.
Again, I’m sure the union did some good things as well. But the plant is now closed and the jobs lost. The plant property was absorbed by the local Air force base and the base did not gain any jobs or workload since. The property has allowed the base to improve its efficiency because of it.
I have worked for the Federal Government for 32 years. I was a member of the union for 20. I resigned from the union because of the practices I was observing. I felt my dues were being spent to defend people and their actions I felt did not deserve attention.
Because of this union, I had to suffer working in indoor areas where smoking was allowed in the workplace for several years after the government started placing restrictions on it.
Because of this union I have worked first hand with a few people that were on a “working welfare” program. Removing an employee is an almost impossible task anymore.
Many of the officers of the union are not people you would likely hire. If you did, I would doubt you would keep them for any length of time. They have an entitlement attitude and it shows in their work ethics.
Because of the union, workers are placed in or displaced from areas that cause losses in efficiency. Losses like this would reduce profits and/or close down private companies. In this case it costs the taxpayers (me and you) more money and creates a poor working environment for many employees.
I worked in a section that installed and maintained complex electrical systems from many different manufacturers and in different settings. . We had an open position. Because of a reduction in another area, a person was placed in the open position because she “minimally qualified” for the job. The job she moved from was electronics. She worked on circuit boards that you plugged into test equipment and it told her what components needed to be replaced. She had absolutely no troubleshooting skills. A year later she still could not perform any task and was simply tagging along as an unneeded helper “training”. It was obvious she lacked a basic electrical and electronics knowledge to have the trouble shooting skill set needed. Then we had a forced reduction and lost a position in our area. Because of “seniority” she keeps her slot and we lost a guy that had been working in that shop performing work for 15 years. Ironically, he went to the same area where she came from 16-18 month prior.
I know there are some good things they do, but I could go on and on with the things I have seen first- hand. I felt I did not need to finance their activities anymore.
They still are required to “represent” me, and I don’t agree that they should be required to do that.
Another case
I wish I could remember 100% of the details. Oklahoma City had a GM assembly plant that opened in the late 70s. They built cars for years. Across the street was a loading and unloading railroad lot. Cars and Trucks coming into the OKC area by rail were delivered here and loaded onto Semi trailers for delivery to the dealers. Cars built in the plant were driven across the street and loaded onto the rails.
In the late 90s it switched to a truck (SUVs - Envoy and Trailblazers) assembly plant. Because the union contracts were different for cars vs the SUVs, they could not load them across the street for shipping anymore. They had to transport them by trucks about 10-12 miles and unload them and then load on rail. Loss to GM efficiency and profits and/or resulting to higher costs of product to the consumer. For what reason, to protect jobs? There was not a “Job” to haul them before the switch.
There were tons of issues at that plant because of tight union control and influence. I know several people that were employed there. Some of it was unbelievable.
Again, I’m sure the union did some good things as well. But the plant is now closed and the jobs lost. The plant property was absorbed by the local Air force base and the base did not gain any jobs or workload since. The property has allowed the base to improve its efficiency because of it.
Here you go!
A dedicated Teamsters Union member was attending a convention in Las Vegas
and decided to check out the local brothels. When he got to the first one,
he asked the Madam, "Is this a union house?"
"No," she replied, "I'm sorry, it isn't."
"Well, if I pay you $100, what cut do the girls get?"
"The house gets $80 and the girls get $20," she replied.
Offended at such unfair dealings, the union man stomped off down the street
in search of a more equitable, hopefully unionized shop. His search
continued until finally he reached a brothel where the Madam responded, "Why
yes sir, this is a union house. We observe all union rules."
The man asked, "And if I pay you $100, what cut do the girls get?"
"The girls get $80 and the house gets $20."
"That's more like it!" the union man said. He handed the Madam a $100 bill,
looked around the room, and pointed out a stunningly beautiful, green-eyed
blonde.
"I'd like her," he said.
"I am sure you would, sir" said the Madam. Then she gestured to a 92-year
old woman in the corner, "but Ethel here has 67 years seniority and
according to union rules, she's next."
A dedicated Teamsters Union member was attending a convention in Las Vegas
and decided to check out the local brothels. When he got to the first one,
he asked the Madam, "Is this a union house?"
"No," she replied, "I'm sorry, it isn't."
"Well, if I pay you $100, what cut do the girls get?"
"The house gets $80 and the girls get $20," she replied.
Offended at such unfair dealings, the union man stomped off down the street
in search of a more equitable, hopefully unionized shop. His search
continued until finally he reached a brothel where the Madam responded, "Why
yes sir, this is a union house. We observe all union rules."
The man asked, "And if I pay you $100, what cut do the girls get?"
"The girls get $80 and the house gets $20."
"That's more like it!" the union man said. He handed the Madam a $100 bill,
looked around the room, and pointed out a stunningly beautiful, green-eyed
blonde.
"I'd like her," he said.
"I am sure you would, sir" said the Madam. Then she gestured to a 92-year
old woman in the corner, "but Ethel here has 67 years seniority and
according to union rules, she's next."
busabobh
Registered
Sorry about your trouble with the Unions. I,m a Union man, IRONWORKERS#24, Steel erection, and misc iron, My local likes our contractors and we work with them so they will stick around. We have taken pay cuts, given special job agreements, gave back pay raises , suspended benfits in order to keep them in business and or make a profit. We also have continuing education we must attend,to hold our rate of pay, welding papers must be updated yearly. this is on top of the Apprenticeship we served. We weed out our dead wood also because it reflects on our Union and us personally, we take pride in our work and do it in a timely matter, no job to big or small. I can,t speak for all Unions, but I,m proud of mine and think this is how they should be run. This won,t change your mind about Unions , but know their not all the same, and we have clean up our act . I hope companies will do the same, but thats why we have Unions in the first place
Then I congratulate your union for having to good sense to realize 1) you are in it together and 2) do not kill the goose that lays the golden egg. A exception to the rule I think.
Defiant
Registered
You should look at the video on the link I started this post on. 1:30 into it is the footage the 'turkey' said was edited out. You do know they do have to edit out the words right? FCC mandates that. It seems that most people haven't watched the video. Watch the whole video, it can't hurt you because your not there.
Look watch the video on the link I started this with. Than watch the turks and see if you agree with their opinion. I'm not an emperor with no clothes, I would love to see if anyone can come up with proof that Fox staged the whole event. The fact that the turk guy in your vid is devoting more time to it must mean some people did watch the vid and his commentary and thought he was an asshat, this is just a guess on my part.
Speaking of videos, Here is a video of an interview of poor sap stuck in the tent trying to make a living selling hotdogs.
Hot dog vendor comes under attack at Michigan union protest | Fox News Video
I would urge all union members on this board watch this one. He was also selling or giving hotdogs to the union guys also who came into the tent, before they ripped the tent down on him. Oh, and if their is proof that this guy was a plant or Fox staged him in the tent for the interview, please post. At the very least watch the vid I started this thread on and read the story about the 'mainstream' media coverage. From the 3 turk videos, it seems these guys hate foxnews regardless of what stories they cover and they don't report news, just their opinions. Nothing wrong with that but you need a place to see / hear the news too, that's all.
The news article at the start of the thread talks about why some news isn't reported. Not reporting something can be 'editing' or sorts, ie leaving it out. Just trying to help out. By the way, wiki states that ostrich sticking their head in the ground is not what the cartoons depict. It just looks that way.
Oh, one more for the unions, note this is from non news source, but it is interesting none the less, if any union members has any back info on this and why they were reinstated, I'd like to know.
13 UAW workers at Chrysler who were caught red-handed drinking and smoking weed during work hours are reinstated | AEIdeas
This is a quote from a comment to the above story:
For example, according to the most recent federal filings, the Michigan Education Association — the state’s largest labor union — received $122 million and spent $134 million in 2012. They averaged about $800 from each of their 152,000 members.
According to union documents, “representational activities†(money spent on bargaining contracts for members) made up only 11 percent of total spending for the union. Meanwhile, spending on “general overhead†(union administration and employee benefits) comprised of 61 percent of the total spending.
The union appears to have spent nearly the entirety, or $119 million of their $122 million in dues, just supporting their leadership (and various politicians) in grand style. They actually had to borrow $12 million to do their job of representing their members.
If this is true and I was a union member, I'd want right to work so that I could choose to pay my dues.
I'm a numbers guy so if the numbers are wrong, please say so.
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