Calling gun guys (or gals?)

[skydivr]

While I wouldn't say this of any other pistol on the market, with the glock being double action only you can leave one in the chamber if she has an issue racking. If your not a fan of under barrel lasers there are grip lasers that activate when you grasp the grip. Saves having to fumble with it and turn it on in the dark.

WTH? Glocks are NOT Double action...they are striker fired.....and leaving one in the chamber is not for the faint of heart (or kids in the house)....

[skydivr]

I like Glocks, but for some reason they don't have a natural point for me. I made the transition from my 226-228 Sigs to the M&Ps a few years ago and they are now my primary ones. I've got Apex triggers to drop in the Shield and compact if I ever get time to do it. I love the trigger on the Pro Series and I've dry fired a couple with Apex triggers that seemed better. If it is that much better than the Pro trigger, it may get swapped also.

See Professor, I'm exactly the opposite - while the Glock seems to 'point' naturally for me, the Shield I have totally doesn't (it's the angle of the grip to the barrel that's slightly different). Frankly, I don't even like the Shield I have and should sell it. I DO like the fact that it's got an additional thumb safety over the Glock (I think a MUST for a striker-fired pistol), but that's it.

In any case, my fav is my Kimber...and I wish I could afford a Wilson Combat...

[Blanca BusaLess]

Some good advice here and a lot of bad advice as well.
Sights are for target shooting period.

Have your wife take a threat focused class and teach her how to point shoot.
You will not have time to raise your gun and aim in an SD situation. It will simply be draw and fire.

If one cannot hit a body sized target within 20ft without using sights than I say get more ammo and go back to the range.
Here is an example of what can be done with enough training. $600 on red dot sights or lasers or any other gizmos will get you killed. Just learn how to shoot, low ready, half hip, 3/4 hip AND on the move.

As goofy as his Gopro helmet makes him look this man is very well respected in his field and has been training folks from all walks and depts for decades. He is an acquaintance of mine in Az. His favorite training pistol is a 1911 with NO sights, just a smooth slide.

Practice practice practice. Your reaction needs to be reflexive and instant without thought.

[skydivr]

Some good advice here and a lot of bad advice as well.
Sights are for target shooting period.

Have your wife take a threat focused class and teach her how to point shoot.
You will not have time to raise your gun and aim in an SD situation. It will simply be draw and fire.

If one cannot hit a body sized target within 20ft without using sights than I say get more ammo and go back to the range.
Here is an example of what can be done with enough training. $600 on red dot sights or lasers or any other gizmos will get you killed. Just learn how to shoot, low ready, half hip, 3/4 hip AND on the move.

As goofy as his Gopro helmet makes him look this man is very well respected in his field and has been training folks from all walks and depts for decades. He is an acquaintance of mine in Az. His favorite training pistol is a 1911 with NO sights, just a smooth slide.

Practice practice practice. Your reaction needs to be reflexive and instant without thought.

Thanks for sharing Saiid. Most encounters for us civilians are not the kind that you get telegraphed that "ok, you need to draw your weapon, cause this bad guy is about to make trouble", it's the in-close, "oh crap" kind...

[Blanca BusaLess]

Thanks for sharing Saiid. Most encounters for us civilians are not the kind that you get telegraphed that "ok, you need to draw your weapon, cause this bad guy is about to make trouble", it's the in-close, "oh crap" kind...

Exactly your reaction will be as a result of their action. So you are already behind the ball.
You need to be able to hit targets while looking at them not your gun.

[RedBusarider]

Exactly your reaction will be as a result of their action. So you are already behind the ball.
You need to be able to hit targets while looking at them not your gun.

Don't forget to mention that all that was done with just one hand.
How many people go to a range and use 2 hands for every shot and then go home?
Shooting from the hip is going to be probably the most common situation in real life.

[Bobby B]

I live in Cali and my my wife purchased the the XDS single stack 9mm through a private gun dealer here in socal under the "single shot exemption Law" she keeps it by the bed in a finger print gun safe.
The guy I buy from goes under the name "Baboosh" on calguns.net. Very cool guy and he is usually at all the gunshows.

[StrtRac3r]

I live in Cali and my my wife purchased the the XDS single stack 9mm through a private gun dealer here in socal under the "single shot exemption Law" she keeps it by the bed in a finger print gun safe.
The guy I buy from goes under the name "Baboosh" on calguns.net. Very cool guy and he is usually at all the gunshows.

Single shot exemption doesn't exhist anymore unless the gun is already in the state and registered and sold by a private seller. As of 1-1-15

[SuedePflow]

I DO like the fact that it's got an additional thumb safety over the Glock (I think a MUST for a striker-fired pistol), but that's it.

Why is that?

Just curious why you think internal safties aren't enough, but adding an external safety to the internal safeties makes it enough.

[StrtRac3r]

Why is that?

Just curious why you think internal safties aren't enough, but adding an external safety to the internal safeties makes it enough.

I was a little worried at first with my wife. But after some thought, the external safety is only for my comfort. Any issue that can happen due to no external safety would be of my negligence. Experience, training, and knowledge can prevent anything an external safety can.

[Blanca BusaLess]

Don't forget to mention that all that was done with just one hand.
How many people go to a range and use 2 hands for every shot and then go home?
Shooting from the hip is going to be probably the most common situation in real life.

Almost every single one.
And almost every single one can't even point a pistol with their weak hand either, much less shoot it.

Nobody ever considers their strong hand may get injured, incapacitated or tied up fending off an attacker.
You may have to reach around your back and draw your weapon weak handed and fire it. It may get knocked out of your strong hand. You may have to pick it up and shoot weak handed.

How many here are equally as comfortable shooting their EDC with either hand? Hmmmmm

[SuedePflow]

Almost every single one.
And almost every single one can't even point a pistol with their weak hand either, much less shoot it.

Nobody ever considers their strong hand may get injured, incapacitated or tied up fending off an attacker.
You may have to reach around your back and draw your weapon weak handed and fire it. It may get knocked out of your strong hand. You may have to pick it up and shoot weak handed.

How many here are equally as comfortable shooting their EDC with either hand? Hmmmmm

This is a good point. I regularly train shooting one-handed and weak-handed. I wouldn't say I enjoying weak handed shooting, but I am comfortable enough doing it to hit the target. One-handed, stong side is VERY comfortable for me though.


Funny story; a few of us friends compete in a match twice every year. About the second or third time doing it, they started throwing in some twists. There was a section where you had to neutralize all pepper poppers one-handed, weak-handed, and while on the move. None of us had ever practiced that. Most of us faired well given the circumstances, but one of my buddies didn't. He ended up blasting away all of his ammo in that section and had to forfeit the rest of the match due to being out of ammo. Ever since then, we regularly practice one-handed shooting. In the match we just shot two weeks ago, there was a one-handed course and it just seems easy now.

[skydivr]

Why is that?

Just curious why you think internal safties aren't enough, but adding an external safety to the internal safeties makes it enough.

Strictly IMHO: The only safety you have on a Glock is keeping your finger OUT of the Trigger well. That takes a lot of self-control on the range, let alone in a high-intensity, high-adrenalin situation. Yes, you can train yourself out of it, but most don't (and that probable includes me, and certainly my wife). And it's striker-fired, which means we are only talking about 4-6 pounds of trigger pull for it to go off.

Now, aggravate that in a in-close, unexpected draw situation, like having to draw unexpectedly (clothes in the way, sitting, in the car, maybe close-contact where you are in physical contact with your attacker, etc.). As you grab (and I mean GRAB) for your gun, human nature is to wrap your hand around it so you don't lose it - and you just put your finger in the trigger well - and if someone grab the gun and pulls for it - BOOM. So, what are the odds of grabbing the gun when it's coming out of your holster, and shooting yourself in the process? Higher in my opinion.

Granted that the only way CCW REALLY works is to carry in condition one (round in the chamber), then there are some ways you can mitigate a striker-fire safety issue:

ONE: Double action (ex: Bodyguard) or Double Action 1st (ex: Barretta M9)...it take a full-stroke trigger pull to fire the first (and on the Bodyguard, every) shot.
TWO: An actual safety: In my case, my M1911. It has almost the same problem as the Glock with round in chamber, hammer back and safety off. But at least with safety on, it takes more than a 'grab' muscular move to set it off. I have practiced (not enough but some) to come out of the holster and come off safety in the same move so I hopefully am ready to fire as the pistol presents, but not shoot myself in the process.

Edit: Weak hand, hell I just don't know need to try it...

Hope this make sense. Saiid is much better at this than I.

[GsxrBots]

:tiptoe:


Guns are bad...

[brpo]

Strictly IMHO: The only safety you have on a Glock is keeping your finger OUT of the Trigger well. That takes a lot of self-control on the range, let alone in a high-intensity, high-adrenalin situation. Yes, you can train yourself out of it, but most don't (and that probable includes me, and certainly my wife). And it's striker-fired, which means we are only talking about 4-6 pounds of trigger pull for it to go off.

Now, aggravate that in a in-close, unexpected draw situation, like having to draw unexpectedly (clothes in the way, sitting, in the car, maybe close-contact where you are in physical contact with your attacker, etc.). As you grab (and I mean GRAB) for your gun, human nature is to wrap your hand around it so you don't lose it - and you just put your finger in the trigger well - and if someone grab the gun and pulls for it - BOOM. So, what are the odds of grabbing the gun when it's coming out of your holster, and shooting yourself in the process? Higher in my opinion.

Granted that the only way CCW REALLY works is to carry in condition one (round in the chamber), then there are some ways you can mitigate a striker-fire safety issue:

ONE: Double action (ex: Bodyguard) or Double Action 1st (ex: Barretta M9)...it take a full-stroke trigger pull to fire the first (and on the Bodyguard, every) shot.
TWO: An actual safety: In my case, my M1911. It has almost the same problem as the Glock with round in chamber, hammer back and safety off. But at least with safety on, it takes more than a 'grab' muscular move to set it off. I have practiced (not enough but some) to come out of the holster and come off safety in the same move so I hopefully am ready to fire as the pistol presents, but not shoot myself in the process.

Edit: Weak hand, hell I just don't know need to try it...

Hope this make sense. Saiid is much better at this than I.

I agree with everything... I carry my glock barrel empty. If I don't have time to rack the slide - something that's completely natural and adds a fraction of a second to do - I figure I'm already in a wrestling match in which I could be disarmed. Now - perhaps if I'm disarmed I have a second chance to fight while the perp tries to fire the weapon. Plus - it just removes any chance of a neligent discharge. I've been know to make mistakes

[skydivr]

I agree with everything... I carry my glock barrel empty. If I don't have time to rack the slide - something that's completely natural and adds a fraction of a second to do - I figure I'm already in a wrestling match in which I could be disarmed. Now - perhaps if I'm disarmed I have a second chance to fight while the perp tries to fire the weapon. Plus - it just removes any chance of a neligent discharge. I've been know to make mistakes

And, while many might flame you for this stance, I think if that's your personal choice and that's where your comfort level is, so be it. I carried a long time without one in the chamber before I felt comfortable enough to carry with one in it. I consider having a manual safety or double action first round FOR ME to be the current best mix of readiness and safety.

When my daughter was younger, I made the concious decision NOT to keep a round in the chamber EVER, just to TRY and maintain a little extra safety margin; I knew she was not strong enough or dexterious enough to actually charge a around JUST IN CASE I was stupid enought to set it down with a mag inserted and walk away. Now in the house I do keep a mag inserted, but the chamber clear - but when I carry I keep a round chambered, but never let it LEAVE MY HANDS until the round is out - and my daughter has now seen me clear plenty of times and she just considers it a normal tool in the home....

[RedBusarider]

:tiptoe:


Guns are bad...

In the wrong hands - that is true.

In a perfect world we would have no need for guns or a need to protect ourselves.

But just about nothing is perfect - at least in this world. :down:

[brpo]

And, while many might flame you for this stance, I think if that's your personal choice and that's where your comfort level is, so be it. I carried a long time without one in the chamber before I felt comfortable enough to carry with one in it. I consider having a manual safety or double action first round FOR ME to be the current best mix of readiness and safety.

When my daughter was younger, I made the concious decision NOT to keep a round in the chamber EVER, just to TRY and maintain a little extra safety margin; I knew she was not strong enough or dexterious enough to actually charge a around JUST IN CASE I was stupid enought to set it down with a mag inserted and walk away. Now in the house I do keep a mag inserted, but the chamber clear - but when I carry I keep a round chambered, but never let it LEAVE MY HANDS until the round is out - and my daughter has now seen me clear plenty of times and she just considers it a normal tool in the home....

Similar situation here... I have a 9 year old now and I don't carry all the time as I used to. And although he is trained not to handle a gun if he finds it - his friends may or may not be. I just can't risk losing control of the a weapon even for moment or two with kids in the house. BK (before kid) my wife left guns around the house loaded and unsecured always.

[Blanca BusaLess]

I don't think you'll find a single well known instructor advocating carrying on an empty chamber?

You're walking down the street, a strange man approaches, before you know it he's up close and personal, now he's upon you without warning, weak hand up to fend him off and you draw your weapon holding it in close to fire at him....


Whoops your dead because you couldn't rack the slide and chamber a round.

Or do you intend to call 'time out Mr Bad Guy' while you rack one in?
May as well not even carry a gun if its not ready to go.

[Blanca BusaLess]

Should be clear enough.
Only thing I will add regarding this video is the distance is already so close that it would require stepping into him and working for a disarm as this close guns sometimes cannot be deployed in time. But it should be clear enough to show that carrying on an empty chamber is foolish.