Buell is dead...

Lurch

The milkman cometh!!!
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Lurch, you have to stop taking everything so personally on this issue. Buell was shut down and MV was divested because HD is bleeding badly. Customers read the papers and know what is going on with the company. They need to get any symbols of financial problems away from the corporation as quickly as possible and you can't have Buell motorcycles sitting in the showroom as a constant reminder of the corporate downsizing. It does not inspire confidence in clients who might be thinking about buying your product. This is the same issue Pontiac, Saturn and the rest are having at GM. Get rid of it and get on with trying to rebuild the business we have going forward.
The only thing I am taking personal here is the fact of the Buell and Harley bashing that you seem to be doing. I am a BIG fan of Buell as I have owned many. If you do not like Buell or Harley then so be it. But do not bash them as you have been. Erik has NEVER and NEVER WILL make a BAD bike as you had said. I just pray that he can find a backer and make his GREAT machines again. Buell is nowhere nere a Yugo, Saturn or any thing else. You can not compare a Buell to a Suzuki Gixxer just like you can not compare a Pontiac G6 against a Pontiac GTP or even a Ferrari. That is all I am saying. They are not BAD bikes and they are not a bad company. Erik has been shafted by the MOTOR COMPANY (as it is known) since day one. They just wanted to ride Erik's shirt tails and hoped to make money off of him.

bazooki

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Dude you've obviously got issues with Buell or America, or maybe both.. Just spit it out and get it off your chest once and for all, but please quit polluting this thread with falsehoods and innuendos...:beerchug:



Please read what I have written. It is the SYMBOL of failure. It doesn't matter what is or isn't in marketing but what the customer perceives. If the customer THINKS you have problems, whether you do or not, then they will be hesitant about doing business with you. That is why they have to get the Buells out of the HD showrooms as quickly as possible. Please don't put words in my mouth or change what I have written.

BBB

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Please read what I have written. It is the SYMBOL of failure. It doesn't matter what is or isn't in marketing but what the customer perceives. If the customer THINKS you have problems, whether you do or not, then they will be hesitant about doing business with you. That is why they have to get the Buells out of the HD showrooms as quickly as possible. Please don't put words in my mouth or change what I have written.

I agree that consumer confidence is extremely important. One thing that might be missing from this symbol concept of yours is that part of restructuring is the write off. Certain accounting rules allow you to write off large amounts of debt but there are restrictions. They may be required to reduce inventory by a certain amount in a certain timeframe. I have't read enough on this but I do have access to the analyst research and believe I will learn a bit more on the subject before I spout off again.

On another note, consumers are like sharks. When there's blood in the water they move in. There are consumers that will take advantage of this that might have not been planning on making a purchase at this time. This is not a bad thing...especially for the fisherman.

AlanS

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I owned a Buell 1125R but sold it earlier this year. The reasons I chose to sell it were as follows: It boiled the fuel on hot days here in the desert--the official position was this was not a safety issue (safety issue or not, it was disconcerting); I replaced the rear turn-signals at least four times--the stock signals 'burned out' (LEDs, actually) sometimes within days of installation--I wound up replacing the signals with after-market units just to avoid the hassle of returning to the dealer; there is/was a hard-core cadre of Buell fanatics, some of whom were distinctly unfriendly, some of these who were in a position in the Buell community to turn-off new and prospective Buell owners--in other words, the 'culture' was insular, and could be very hostile and unfriendly to anything but unquestioning, blind loyalty. For someone who wanted to be 'a part' of things, this was a show-stopper.

My impression is that they let the 1125R out a bit too early, with some rough edges yet to be ironed out. This lead to bad Press. The problems were mostly corrected, but the damage had been done. Even so, I think slow sales of their 'revolutionary' model was one among a number of reasons the company failed. The company failed, in my opinion, due primarily to its cultish followers and their treatment of newcomers, and outsiders. This attitude shouldn't be discounted, or under appreciated in its insidious effects. There was enough friction between the hardcore Buell guys and literally everyone else it destroyed the goodwill in the general populace required to take a chance on a new brand. Buell fanatics alienated others in the bike community. The seeds of the company's demise were sown when the company was formed. It seems they allowed a cult to grow up around the founder, and in so doing, allowed to flourish the market forces that would ultimately undo the marque. If there's a formal theory of group 'underdogism' (and there must be) then this is a classic case of an overachieving organization who takes the impetus for its achievement from its underdog status and thus cannot do without it. I know on the surface it appears Harley pulled the plug because of financial considerations. My opinion is the plug was pulled because of what was foreordained--the Buell culture couldn't function as anything other than an 'underdog', and in the public eye, underdogs must either become topdogs, or else disappear. There's no middle ground for this.

I hate to see the bikes go. My 1125R was very capable, and fun. It couldn't outrun other top-of-the-line 4-cylinder liter bikes in a straight line, but in the curvy parts, it was superior to them. Buell was outstanding at correcting issues, and the dealer did a good job with service. I lost my a@@ when I sold mine earlier, but I'm glad I sold it then and didn't wait. I imagine the prices are going to go down significantly. I'll also bet 50 years in the future, Buells will bring tidy prices. For those who wish to wait that long on their investments.

My opinion...

Alan

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Please read what I have written. It is the SYMBOL of failure. It doesn't matter what is or isn't in marketing but what the customer perceives. If the customer THINKS you have problems, whether you do or not, then they will be hesitant about doing business with you. That is why they have to get the Buells out of the HD showrooms as quickly as possible. Please don't put words in my mouth or change what I have written.


Whatever.... bazooki has spoken, therefore it is done...:beerchug::welcome:

Lurch

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Yep Buells are BAD bikes. Just called my buddy at Uke's Harley. They had 10 1125R's on Monday. They now have 2 left and one is going out the door now. Darn vultures.

They are so bad they can not get rid of these terrible bikes.:whistle:

LILGSXR

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I owned a Buell 1125R but sold it earlier this year. The reasons I chose to sell it were as follows: It boiled the fuel on hot days here in the desert--the official position was this was not a safety issue (safety issue or not, it was disconcerting); I replaced the rear turn-signals at least four times--the stock signals 'burned out' (LEDs, actually) sometimes within days of installation--I wound up replacing the signals with after-market units just to avoid the hassle of returning to the dealer; there is/was a hard-core cadre of Buell fanatics, some of whom were distinctly unfriendly, some of these who were in a position in the Buell community to turn-off new and prospective Buell owners--in other words, the 'culture' was insular, and could be very hostile and unfriendly to anything but unquestioning, blind loyalty. For someone who wanted to be 'a part' of things, this was a show-stopper.

My impression is that they let the 1125R out a bit too early, with some rough edges yet to be ironed out. This lead to bad Press. The problems were mostly corrected, but the damage had been done. Even so, I think slow sales of their 'revolutionary' model was one among a number of reasons the company failed. The company failed, in my opinion, due primarily to its cultish followers and their treatment of newcomers, and outsiders. This attitude shouldn't be discounted, or under appreciated in its insidious effects. There was enough friction between the hardcore Buell guys and literally everyone else it destroyed the goodwill in the general populace required to take a chance on a new brand. Buell fanatics alienated others in the bike community. The seeds of the company's demise were sown when the company was formed. It seems they allowed a cult to grow up around the founder, and in so doing, allowed to flourish the market forces that would ultimately undo the marque. If there's a formal theory of group 'underdogism' (and there must be) then this is a classic case of an overachieving organization who takes the impetus for its achievement from its underdog status and thus cannot do without it. I know on the surface it appears Harley pulled the plug because of financial considerations. My opinion is the plug was pulled because of what was foreordained--the Buell culture couldn't function as anything other than an 'underdog', and in the public eye, underdogs must either become topdogs, or else disappear. There's no middle ground for this.

I hate to see the bikes go. My 1125R was very capable, and fun. It couldn't outrun other top-of-the-line 4-cylinder liter bikes in a straight line, but in the curvy parts, it was superior to them. Buell was outstanding at correcting issues, and the dealer did a good job with service. I lost my a@@ when I sold mine earlier, but I'm glad I sold it then and didn't wait. I imagine the prices are going to go down significantly. I'll also bet 50 years in the future, Buells will bring tidy prices. For those who wish to wait that long on their investments.

My opinion...

Alan

from what i was told they fixed this problem did you buy one when they first came out? buddy of mines never had a problem with his running hot to the point of boiling the gas. Its gotten hot here on wisconsin this summer and we got stuck in traffic my busa ran real hot but his was just fine???

BBB

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As I expected, there is a business reason for the quick removal of Buells that has nothing to do with the symbolism. First a bit of history...Buell began partnering with Harley-Davidson in 1993 and was completely acquired in 2003, but has never contributed much more than 2% of sales for the company.

Harley will recognize incremental restructuring charges associated with the Buell closure, raising anticipated restructuring costs to a cumulative $215 million to $245 million in restructuring charges over 2009 and 2010, up $55 million from prior expectations for $160 million to $190 million.

Buell will continue to sell off inventory into 2010, but the company expects to spend $125 million to wind down this business, with $115 million coming in 2009 and $10 million in 2010. The company also expects an approximate $60 million hit to gross profit in the fourth quarter as the company aids dealers in inventory liquidation. The company expects ongoing savings of approximately $140 million to $150 million.

LA Busa

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Wow, what a mess.
They only contributed 2% of sales for HD? That'll get ya axed in this corporate environment!

They were just getting sorted out in AMA racing and were doing pretty good (with some tweaking of the rules), but, I have to say that other than those I saw at Don's funeral I dont think I have ever even seen one on the road.

If they had cult like following I'll bet they'll be back.

tdrcomm

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I owned a Buell 1125R but sold it earlier this year. The reasons I chose to sell it were as follows: It boiled the fuel on hot days here in the desert--the official position was this was not a safety issue (safety issue or not, it was disconcerting); I replaced the rear turn-signals at least four times--the stock signals 'burned out' (LEDs, actually) sometimes within days of installation--I wound up replacing the signals with after-market units just to avoid the hassle of returning to the dealer; there is/was a hard-core cadre of Buell fanatics, some of whom were distinctly unfriendly, some of these who were in a position in the Buell community to turn-off new and prospective Buell owners--in other words, the 'culture' was insular, and could be very hostile and unfriendly to anything but unquestioning, blind loyalty. For someone who wanted to be 'a part' of things, this was a show-stopper.

My impression is that they let the 1125R out a bit too early, with some rough edges yet to be ironed out. This lead to bad Press. The problems were mostly corrected, but the damage had been done. Even so, I think slow sales of their 'revolutionary' model was one among a number of reasons the company failed. The company failed, in my opinion, due primarily to its cultish followers and their treatment of newcomers, and outsiders. This attitude shouldn't be discounted, or under appreciated in its insidious effects. There was enough friction between the hardcore Buell guys and literally everyone else it destroyed the goodwill in the general populace required to take a chance on a new brand. Buell fanatics alienated others in the bike community. The seeds of the company's demise were sown when the company was formed. It seems they allowed a cult to grow up around the founder, and in so doing, allowed to flourish the market forces that would ultimately undo the marque. If there's a formal theory of group 'underdogism' (and there must be) then this is a classic case of an overachieving organization who takes the impetus for its achievement from its underdog status and thus cannot do without it. I know on the surface it appears Harley pulled the plug because of financial considerations. My opinion is the plug was pulled because of what was foreordained--the Buell culture couldn't function as anything other than an 'underdog', and in the public eye, underdogs must either become topdogs, or else disappear. There's no middle ground for this.

I hate to see the bikes go. My 1125R was very capable, and fun. It couldn't outrun other top-of-the-line 4-cylinder liter bikes in a straight line, but in the curvy parts, it was superior to them. Buell was outstanding at correcting issues, and the dealer did a good job with service. I lost my a@@ when I sold mine earlier, but I'm glad I sold it then and didn't wait. I imagine the prices are going to go down significantly. I'll also bet 50 years in the future, Buells will bring tidy prices. For those who wish to wait that long on their investments.

My opinion...

Alan



Excellent post! :thumbsup:

Almost makes me happy that HD DIDN'T try to purchase the rights to Britten after John died. I thought that partnership would have been a no-brainer - putting Britten's technology and innovation into a fine street package. Man, am I glad that didn't happen. The V1000 is my favorite bike of all time. :bowdown:

k03gsxr750

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As I expected, there is a business reason for the quick removal of Buells that has nothing to do with the symbolism. First a bit of history...Buell began partnering with Harley-Davidson in 1993 and was completely acquired in 2003, but has never contributed much more than 2% of sales for the company.

Harley will recognize incremental restructuring charges associated with the Buell closure, raising anticipated restructuring costs to a cumulative $215 million to $245 million in restructuring charges over 2009 and 2010, up $55 million from prior expectations for $160 million to $190 million.

Buell will continue to sell off inventory into 2010, but the company expects to spend $125 million to wind down this business, with $115 million coming in 2009 and $10 million in 2010. The company also expects an approximate $60 million hit to gross profit in the fourth quarter as the company aids dealers in inventory liquidation. The company expects ongoing savings of approximately $140 million to $150 million.

I hate to see an American company go but if those are the facts I can't blame HD. Those are terrible numbers.

DaCol.

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Geezzzzzzzzzzzzzz Guys, like it or not, Eric NEVER made bikes that enough people wanted to buy.

Plain and Simple ! THE END :beerchug:

GSXTacy

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Re: Just In Time

It's not like they won every race. In fact the Championship was very close at the end. Danny only won it by 5pts.

I think what he is saying is that the rules were bent so far in the buells favor. They were running damn near twice the displacement of the other bikes in that class. Just like in drag racing, the AMA did everything possible to make the hardley and buell win. In pro stock, if the vrod doesnt win the class, they tweak the rules a little more in there favor for the next year.

dragonbusa

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I hate it for people losing there jobs, but then on the same note i dont see how HD stays open. over rated, over priced, under performing bikes. $20.000+ bikes that cant run with $8000 hondas? I"ll stick with the japp bikes thank you.
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