Any commercial airline pilots on the .org?

Then I went on to school.

There were 64 in my class of aspiring commercial pilots.

Three of us graduated.

The failure rate is astronomical...in part because flight schools generally are not candid about the amount of time and money it takes to produce a commercial pilot.
 
Upon graduation, I had progressed from a Private Pilot to the following:

Commercial Pilot - Airplane Single Engine Land
Flight Instructor - A.S.E.L.
Instrument Flight Instructor - again A.S.E.L.

I had about 320 hours total flight time at this point. By this time I had invested about $35,000 in the pursuit of the career.

Today, for you, that number will be closer to $60k on the low end, and $130k if you go to a well-known school.
 
well my dreams of helicopter pilot are dead. Better now than $$$$$ later. Good info tho, Thanks F=MA
 
Guess what? It doesn't end there...

A commercial pilot with 200-300 hours has no business being in an airliner. Absolutely no business. I know it's done occasionally, when the pathetic pay at the regional airlines fails to attract experienced candidates...as it did in mid 2007 when the airline I work(ed) for was hiring pilots straight out of school.
 
Sounds like a big negatory for me. Ill stick metal together and interpret radiographs forever.
Thanks for the info though. There's a spartan school of aeronautics in tulsa I was thinking about checking out but its a big see ya there now.
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...Even worse, a Commercial Pilot's license is nearly worthless in itself.

You are allowed to do the following:

Tow Banners
Flight Instruct (assuming you have a CFI certificate)
Crop Dust
Chase Birds
Pipeline Patrol
Sightseeing flights within 50 miles of the departure airport (if I recall correctly, not going to look that one up now)

AND

You don't have that all-important multi-engine rating on your commercial license yet. You can't fly anything that has more than one engine.

The Airplane Multi-Engine Land endorsement is going to cost you a pretty penny. You thought paying $100/hr. for a Cessna 172 was bad? Now you're looking at $200/hr. for a Piper Seminole...and if you actually want to have a shot at surviving an engine failure in a twin engine airplane, you'd better plan on at least fifteen to twenty hours of instruction.

A.M.E.L. and Multi-engine instructor ratings: budget another $4000.

....
 
It still doesn't end there...

Now you have Airplane Single Engine Land and Airplane Multi Engine Land licenses/endorsements...and the certification to teach in both.

Guess what? In most job markets it's still not enough...

In a normal job market, you're not going to be competitive for a position at a regional airline until you have about 2500 hours total flight time...with at least 500 hours of that being in high performance multi-engine aircraft. There are aberrations from time to time, but I wouldn't count on one to pop up when you get out of school.

So how do you get this additional 2000 or so hours...and 500 hours multi-engine?
...
 
We haven't even gotten to the glamorous part yet....this is still the part where you're just thrilled to death to find yourself sitting in a ratty old Cessna 172...:laugh:
 
Most new commercial pilots/instructors get a job teaching others how to fly...

As a flight instructor, I averaged 100 hours per week, and earned the equivalent of $15k / yr. All this, while watching students try to kill me on a daily basis.

I was an exception to some degree because I had no financial help from my parents while struggling through school. I owed about $30k in total when I graduated.
 
That's all I have time for tonight, but if you're interested I will add more tomorrow. At a minimum I will answer some of the questions posted earlier.
 
How do you pay for this as you go if your not flying for anyone that wants to pay to fly something commercial?
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That's all I have time for tonight, but if you're interested I will add more tomorrow. At a minimum I will answer some of the questions posted earlier.

Thank you for the info and time you spent in this thread F=MA. I greatly appreciate it. I had no idea what I was thinking about getting myself into. Im honestly not sure if i want to go this route anymore.
 
I'd be interested in hearing about the other stuff if you were willing to tell us more :bowdown:

Coming from a guy that puts a lotta seat time in commercial planes, its very interesting to read this and to know what the men and women up front have gone through to get their front row view :thumbsup:
 
The other spectrum is not commercial, but being a private jet pilot. The company i work for has their own private dornier 328 jet, and the pilot acutally just does the radio and instruments. He makes over 100K a year and gets a stipend for all the places they go visit. Im sure those opprotunities are few and far between, but it is possible to work your way into a job like that.
 
A truck driving job with wings.....

You can fly a jump plane with a basic license... (probably a good idea everyone but you has a parachute) :)

I got lucky to get my license.. we owned the catering and restaurants at a number of Phx area Municipals and got to be pals with Bob Davies (owned a school)... $35 an hour wet for a 172 straight leg... Bob was my main instructor, the other was a pilot for Peabody Coal... private jet jockey out giving lessons? not sure why he was

You mentioned helo's.... I think that is a whole nother ball game.. ($$$^^^) I think the best rate I found was around double fixed wing?

if it is your passion, you gotta at least get your solo out of the way and go from there.. even if you do not go commercial, you will have a neat experience under your belt... I thought I wanted to go commercial but man, what a mountain that is to climb..

Pursue the dream to the extent you can now because in time, you will regret it if you dont... (community colleges can get most of your ground work out of the way for pretty low $$)
 
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Since there seems to be some interest I will continue.

Don't think it's all negative. There are some great things about the profession as well. My intent is to help "fill in the gaps" to give you a more correct impression of what the career entails than what you'll hear from the sales representative for any school (business). I may write of some of these later.

There may be a very dim light at the end of the tunnel for someone who is just now considering starting. Two years ago the mandatory retirement age for airline pilots was raised from age 60 to age 65. That might seem like a good thing, as it allows us to work longer...and it is for those who had achieved their ultimate career goal.

For tens of thousands of us, myself included, Age 65 hit hard. Because career advancement is based solely on seniority, attrition...or in this case, lack thereof, has prevented our expected and planned for progression up the ladder. For me, age 65 will ultimately cost me about $380,000 in today's dollars if I continue in the profession. In fact, age 65 has effectively meant if I choose to work beyond age 60, I'll be doing so for free for roughly the first three and a half years.

Someone entering school today will not feel the effect of this, as by the time they are prepared to enter the airline industry, retirements will pick up again.

There is one other potential bright spot...kind of. There are effectively zero new commercial pilot licenses being issued at present. It seems economics are starting to catch up to the business model airline managements use. Fewer people are interested in investing that $60k - $130k I wrote of before for the level of compensation available.

Additionally, after Colgan 3407, there has been some push in Congress to make some much needed changes in experience requirements for new airline pilots. One of the most ambitious would require both pilots...not just the Captain, to have Airline Transport Pilot licenses (bizarre that half of all airline pilots don't need to have an ATP, in my opinion).

The airline industry is lobbying hard against this one, because it would prevent them from doing what they've always done once they push wages and working conditions to the point where experienced, quality pilots will not apply....lowering their hiring standards all the way down to 200 hours total time and wet ink on a multi-engine endorsement.

There is some small potential in the future for wages to rise to more acceptable levels. If all the elements come together as they should, the regional airlines are not going to have to pay more to attract pilots who have experience.

There have been a number of questions posted so far I've not addressed, so I'll interrupt the original "what does it take?" answer for a couple of posts here, then return to that.
 
inquiring minds want to know about the "flight attendants" :whistle:

But really did you pursue the career for the $$ or the flying?

I do remember when left seat was an easy $125G a year for most airlines (just about the time you started right?)
When salaries dropped in to 5 figures, how many actually quit? how many were committed due to the $$ outlay?
 
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Turn your attention towards becoming a successful attorney young man! Then get your arse into politics and help straighten this country out before we began begging our Muslim friends for oil.

Everybody that's somebody in politics happens to be an attorney. They may go to the whitehouse poor but they seem to all come away very wealthy.

I too, am a commercial pilot and it's not a rosey carrier. But then neither is politics.

We happen to have some 30,000 attorney's in Washington state where attorney's outnumber doctors ???
 
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