4th of July::::Freedom has a Cost.

Cisco, Foreplay ? I think Lofty was talking about the 80 dead bodies associated with this drug running mafioso type scum bag in the White House, not his sex life.
 
This is actually a really good thread. Horse, JChen, and Ninjaknight put up three posts which made for some great reading, I think...a spirited, robust exchange of ideas. JChen could use some etiquette lessons, though. By referring to Horse's post as "horseshit", he brands himself a snot-nosed elitist pseudo-intellectual. His post was an excellent counterpoint/critique; it is unfortunate that he diminished it with crass embellishment. Ninjaknight's rejoinder said it all.
 
Lofty and fshaia, I'm no Clintonite, but as with the Horse and Jchen posts, you need to consider the source. It is certainly beyond debate that being a "friend of Bill" is not good for one's health. If Bill & Hillary came at me with an invitation to be their pals, I think I would turn around and run the other way.

But some of "dead bodies" listed above are really of the "kitchen sink" variety, you know, a few extra shovelfulls of BS thrown in on top of everything. Ron Brown, as an example, certainly died in a plane crash. 25 or 35 others (I don't remember the number) were on the plane, there were no survivors. It went down in a storm in the mountains.

The overall point is valid though. In fact I don't even see names like Webster Hubbell, Jim Guy Tucker, or Susan MacDougal up there. Friends of Bill don't all end up in boxes, some of them just end up in jail. Some others, like Les Aspin, get fired and die of heart attacks shortly after. Others, like Lani Guineer, just get tossed out the window when they don't serve Bill's purpose of the moment.

When you compare the fate of Bill's friends to that of his enemies, like George Bush, Bob Dole, or Newt Gingrich, his enemies just end up out of work. His friends do end up dead or in jail, an amazing amount of the time.
 
This is the spirit of Independence, I think, the freedom to speak our minds. History is just that, a "story". The events did happen, but we sort them out in versions that are ALWAYS inexact. That's the nature of history.

Some versions are more accurate, and some are total BS, some are slanted for political purposes or whatever. But they are all really story-telling. From ancient Greeks sitting around their campfires, recounting stories of past battles to each other; to professors of history in Ivy League Universities today, when they discuss history they are all just telling stories.

It is a great part of what democracy is all about. We can stick to our beliefs, we can tell our version, and not worry about being persecuted for it. ...And, we can be free to ride our machines without being hassled by the Man!
 
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