30% leakdown,coolant in oil,shop wont check

[whiteboy06]

06 Busa 1900 miles, no mods.
here's the thing.
Bike kept shutting off at redlight,like it was running on 1 cyl.eventually wouldnt turn over.Could push start it and run about 2 miles and bike would act like its running on 1 cyl. again. but I had enough speed to roll start and run fine for a couple of miles and it start running crappy again. Made it to the motorcycle shop and the mechanic said the battery was the culprit,not enough juice to the plugs,replaced the battery picked it up drove it about 2 to 3 miles and same thing again running like crap.2 weeks go by and I heard nothing so I called, they said they found coolant in the crankcase and replaced a seal,but still there was coolant in the crankcase after flush and installed new part.Then he told me it was the water pump,so they replaced the water and seals and still there was coolant in the crankcase.Now I no nothing about motorcycles and this is my first one, but I do know turbo jap cars and I ask if they had checked the head gasket or checked for warped head or a cracked head.They keep putting off checking the head.And when I asked" would coolant in the oil make the bike run like crap that quick?" I got no straight answer.I know after time yes it would effect the motor, ie..bearrings and all parts needed for oil. He said they found no coolant in the cylinder, so they was no fear of hydro locking.So now I'm back to thinking it may be the head gasket but they keep checking for other things.Also they did do a compression test and the first reading was 198 psi but then leaked down 30% thats all he said didnt say which cyl.or if it was overall reading. So the question is?

1.What else is there to check?
2.what is the story with the battery,I thought the alt. supplied the needed power?
3.What else would give the power failure as described?
4.Why is this mechanic standing behind me with his hands on my shoulders?

OUCH!!! NEVERMIND I FIGURED OUT THE LAST QUESTION!

Any input,flaming,I told you so's,and name calling would be greatly needed.
Thanks Ladies and Gentlemen
Oh! and you, you know who you are!
Whiteboy06

 

[BlueHaya]

Maybe someone from your area will chime in on a better mechanic. From what you describe it may be the gasket you mentioned...coolant in oil and loss of compression. Hopefully not a head.

Did it just start ore was it leading up to not running very well?

 

[Mr Bogus]

this motor is no different that what you are used to working on.. The motor is dropping the hole due to coolant most likely.. Also explains the "wont turn over" hydro locked

Does not sound good at any rate... head gasket or head issue.... the 30% leak down? where is the air going? my guess is cooling system?

Did you overheat the thing? or did it just goes belly up?

 

[whiteboy06]

Thanks fellows for replies.
Never any signs of trouble nothing leading up to this.Out of the blue it happened.
When I tried turning over it was dead tried to crank but then started clicking,no argument on a dead battery,run fine after push start up to 2 miles then acted as though it was running on 1 cyl. maybe 2.had to push start it 3 times before getting to shop.
Never overheated it but the battery did die on me once while sitting in the yard with it switched on not running maybe 5minutes, so I thought battery was going bad push started then and ran fine for about 200 miles,Battery not holding a charge.
JUST BELLY UP!
My first bike have had it about 2 months So no hot rodding Drive like blue haired old lady.
Thanks again Guys.

 

[GIXERHP]

Sound like a head gasket at least, i would have the cylinder head checked for flatness, it could be be a warped head!

 

[Mr Bogus]

you buy this new? My 06 is still under the 12 month warranty so when did you take delivery?

 

[bigoltool]

You can get a set of inexpensive an simple fittings at most auto parts stores that will adapt an air hose to the spark plug opening. By applying pressure to each cylinder you can check a variety of problems-at the Radiator for a blown gasket, at the adjacent cylinder for a leakage between cylinders,at the exhaust port for bad valves(burnt,bent, bad seats etc,) or at the intake for the same thing, lastly I think you can listen to the breather for rings or piston failure. Never used em on a bike before but I used them on my old truck to find a burnt exhaust valve one time. Works like a charm, just be sure you are at TDC when you apply air!

Link

 

[whiteboy06]

Yea I hate to pull the bike in mid stream of there problem solving detection.but I will be going tomorrow to see whats been done.I may ask them to put the thing back together and I check for myself.I have been cruzing the sites for 3 days straight and reading and have received alot of good advice,may check for myself.
Thank you Gixerhp

 

[Mr Bogus]

he already stated a 30% leakdown... someone just needs to follow up on that part.. and if the bikes delivery date is under 12 months, he had best not crack a bolt on it.. find another dealer or call Suzuki direct

 

[whiteboy06]

One knowledgeable guy on another site that Im switching back to from here says it may be a freeze plug in the head.Would the coolant run to the crackcase without going through the cylinder.They said the cyl.'s where dry.

 

[whiteboy06]

How would someone go about checking the delivery date?

 

[whiteboy06]

Went to shop today,rattled a few nerves with the owner and mechanic, only after finding out ,demanding to see my bike, it has been sitting with nothing done to it except pressure/leak down check for the 3 weeks its been there!F@@@@@CKKKK!!!

He did tell me that only the crankcase had coolant in it and not the radiator.He said when they did the leak down the 30% drop in pressure was going into the crankcase and no signs of bubbles in the rad.So I ask,"head gasket maybe cracked head?"he still said they were not sure.AWHAAA? What the h@ll is there to still check out.
Anyway forgive me for dumpingcrap here on the forum but I had ta vent..Just thought I would update.
Motorcycle was bought Sept of 2006..Soo much fir the warranty.
thanks guys for listening.
Whiteboy06

 

[Mr Bogus]

If the bike has been sitting for 3 weeks I think you are seeing a bad sign already... i would also question the leak down test they did as it could just be a ruse to keep you there... Most techs do not roll a job in, do a partial diagnosis and then roll it back out is my point..

The exception is if you do not have authorization to do much more to the bike.. Your description of the problem really points to a breach of the cooling system (head, head gasket, cylinder case or any other place coolant can escape). At least you have a couple clues here..

The miss: plugs get coolant on them, they do not work..
Coolant in crankcase: pretty self explanatory
No oil in cooling system: sort of rules out cracked head (sort of)

Now if they did the leak down test and found the low hole (hole= cylinder) then you have a pretty good idea where the issue is

if they did not do the leak down, you could pull the sparkplugs and I can guarantee you can tell which hole has the leak.. you might even spin the motor over and get a shower if it is really bad

anyway, you will likely be out an hour or so of paid labor but that might be better than being without your bike for 6 months while they screw around... cut your losses...

Get it out of there, find a good shop (you are paying for fix anyway) and get it torn down.. I am sure someone here can point you to a better shop...

Good luck... (oh and keep everyone updated on your progress)

 

[whiteboy06]

thanks Mr Bogus
They did mention there was no coolant on the plugs and they look good. And thanks for the possible ray of hope on the cracked head I have been dreading.I understand its still possible.I have checked around 50 miles radius alot of honda shops,and they even sell hayabusa but just because they can sell them doesnt mean they know how to fix'em.I showed my arse and demanded it be finished by sat. or they could but it together like it was and it will be taken elsewhere.
I will keep everyone posted.

 

[whiteboy06]

Update
Just left from the shop and spoke with the owner to try and resolve this issue. she assured me it would be ready for me by this weekend,I'll see..But about the update,Turns out when I ask the manager about the 30% leakdown, which cyl.or set of cyl.s it was on. He told me it was all the way across.All four?what are the odds of a headgasket blowing across all four?Sounds like BS to me.I could not talk to a mechanic because they both are at a seminar on susuki's,I'm praying that they learn something.But that about somes it up,Although they did finally agree that, the headgasket is the culprit.
Any ideals on what may cause the compression to drop across all four cyl.'s? And go into the crankcase.
I would value any ideals you guys would have..
Whiteboy06

 

[whiteboy06]

Todays update!!!
the verdict is out, turns out the motor had sometype of coolant in it that was not made for the winter,according to the mechanic,it had some like motor ICE in it and the couple of days we had here below freezing caused the freeze pplugs to pop out a little and he said that stuff was really corrosive if allowed to set and caused the corrosion on the freeze plugs,. As far as the leakdown?He told me they found when they did the pressure/leakdown ,that it was off in its timing and when they put the motor at TDC the valves were not seating correctly and thus allowing pressure to be exhausted into the crankcase.Still I really don't see why freeze plugs would cause the bike to run so horribly ,when it did run.The only reason I can think of is, what he said about the timing.Bike being at TDC and the valves not seated,stretched chain??! I dont know what to believe at this point,They have tore the motor down and have ordered the parts,I should get it by wed.
You wonder what something like this cost???HUH???Try $1100.00 freaking dollars 600.00 for labor (10hours) and 500.00 for parts and taxes..Maybe someone could tell me,"Does a headgasket and freeze plugs cost 500.00 dollars?"

 

[Mr Bogus]

well thats a first... a freeze plug that popped out from freezing?? corroded yes, popped out from freezing?

they are actually "welsh" plugs and are in place to remove casting material when the product is cast.. I have seen maybe 30 or 40 motors in my career that "froze" solid enough to do damage and not a one affected any freeze plugs.. blow out the casting? oh yea.

I can buy the corrosion story if someone was using a non-coolant substitute.. (I know lots of guys here run that junk and rave about it) but after you see oxidized aluminum from water or alcohol, you will be hard pressed to run anything but glycol based coolants.. If you race, yes I know you must run this for everyones well being but personally I would flush some glycol based fluid into the system when it is parked for any amount of time or at least drain the cooling system.. (we do this on race motors all the time)


Leakdown:
Across all 4 holes?

I think this guy is jerking your chain again personally... here is why...

He said it was "even" across all 4 holes... (maybe if the bike had 100000 miles on it and no mechanical issues)
It leaked into the crankcase... bloody no way if it is a valve timing issue, air is going out the pipes or the throttle bodies and the motor would not run at all in 99% of the cases.. man I hate shops that try to cover laziness with stories like that...

I would be more suspect of the tester than the testie? (can I say that here?) oh balls, the guy is nuts... I would want a compression test...

The miss could be from the water leak into the crankcase..

there is a crank case vent on these bikes (I did see one anyway) and if you have a lot of water in the oil and run the bike, the oil is going to boil that water and that steam/water/oil mix is headed out of the motor anyway it can.. That would be into the intake system somewhere to be consumed by the motor, well add a bunch of water/oil to your air/fuel mixture and you have a sour running motor.. (a sparkplug inspection will show this crud too)

Not sure where the crankcase vent exits but you should find oil/water there...

 

[8Daytona8]

No but the gasket set ain't cheap! 1 can of brake clean to melt your plastic stuff 5 bucks and 19.00 for enviromental @ your expense. Etc etc! makes me glad I got an ext warranty now! Even though I still think it was a waist of $375.00.

 

[8Daytona8]

Hey think of it this way! Valve adj check they want 300 for will get done! I bet any that paid for that didn't get it.

 

[8Daytona8]

Hey think of it this way! Valve adj check they want 300 for will get done! I bet any that paid for that didn't get it.