The death of a city - and a lesson for the Nation

[Zerks]

It's you that's confused. When the mayors and police departments of these cities, the people that know the specifics of crime within their city, say that they don't need the Guard presence, and that is ignored, THAT"S the TDS you keep referring to.
TDS is actually defined by the continuing faith in a man that continues to fail and flounder.

Too late lol

So when Muriel Bowser the mayor of DC tells Trump "Thank You" for making the streets safe in DC by having the National Guard on patrol and the murder rate drops to zero... then... it must be political theatre... She must have measured the amount of crow she would eat before saying that for all the blowback she will get from the TDS crown for saying it.

[Red05]

So when Muriel Bowser the mayor of DC tells Trump "Thank You" for making the streets safe in DC by having the National Guard on patrol and the murder rate drops to zero... then... it must be political theatre... She must have measured the amount of crow she would eat before saying that for all the blowback she will get from the TDS crown for saying it.

I love how you leave out the rest of Bowser’s comments, which she made during the same statement, about how the Guard’s presence and especially the presence of ICE agents is not working, as it makes residents feel unsafe. Bowser acknowledged Trump’s effort courteously, no more.

[Zerks]

I love how you leave out the rest of Bowser’s comments, which she made during the same statement, about how the Guard’s presence and especially the presence of ICE agents is not working, as it makes residents feel unsafe. Bowser acknowledged Trump’s effort courteously, no more.

That must be straight from MSLSD... Not that it would matter anyway... the murder rate dropped to zero.... a nothing burger... can't report the top shelf stories under the heading of... if it bleeds it leads when nobody is dying in DC. If Bowser really cared about people should would have accepted Trumps offer of 10,000 National Guard a few days ahead of 1-6-2020 and maintained order in the Capitol area.

As far as courtesy goes.... it's a cardinal sin for any democrat to say anything good about Trump or any republican within listening distance of a journalist microphone. The last time Biden said something good about the other party he was forced onto an apology tour.

[Bumblebee]

So when Muriel Bowser the mayor of DC tells Trump "Thank You" for making the streets safe in DC by having the National Guard on patrol and the murder rate drops to zero... then... it must be political theatre... She must have measured the amount of crow she would eat before saying that for all the blowback she will get from the TDS crown for saying it.

If this is a reality.....this wouldn't be sustainable so it is a false security posture......especially since once the occupation of the national guard comes to a close, the bad guys will poke their heads out again...it's a game of "whack a mole" and the national guard isn't trained for this game against civilians.

The national guard isn't a police force and should never be used as one........not in a democracy anyway......
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Zerks]

If this is a reality.....this wouldn't be sustainable so it is a false security posture......especially since once the occupation of the national guard comes to a close, the bad guys will poke their heads out again...it's a game of "whack a mole" and the national guard isn't trained for this game against civilians.

The national guard isn't a police force and should never be used as one........not in a democracy anyway......
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sometimes adaptation is required to keep the peace. Either troops can be trained to perform other duties, or they can't. Which is it?

This word... democracy.... gets thrown around a lot.... it's a misnomer when it comes to defining the form of government that this country is right now. I tend to believe we are a Constitutional Republic which is much different than a democracy. The US Constitution was created to establish a government to be governed by the people. The only reason the US Government has the power it has is due to the fact the citizens gave it to the government in the beginning. This is why the 2nd Amendment was written to give the 1st Amendment the right to exist and resist tyranny whenever it occurs. We have seen tyranny throughout history and have plenty of it going on right now. Tyranny is known to have a finite life span because when the people have had enough something triggers resistance that ends it.

1. 
   
2. 
   Constitution Annotated
   
   https://constitution.congress.gov › constitution › preamble
   

   U.S. Constitution - The Preamble | Resources | Constitution Annotated ...​

   We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
3. 
   
   
   
   
   

It appears Canada is experiencing a bit of tyranny right now.

[Bumblebee]

Sometimes adaptation is required to keep the peace. Either troops can be trained to perform other duties, or they can't. Which is it?

This word... democracy.... gets thrown around a lot.... it's a misnomer when it comes to defining the form of government that this country is right now. I tend to believe we are a Constitutional Republic which is much different than a democracy. The US Constitution was created to establish a government to be governed by the people. The only reason the US Government has the power it has is due to the fact the citizens gave it to the government in the beginning. This is why the 2nd Amendment was written to give the 1st Amendment the right to exist and resist tyranny whenever it occurs. We have seen tyranny throughout history and have plenty of it going on right now. Tyranny is known to have a finite life span because when the people have had enough something triggers resistance that ends it.

1. 
   
2. 
   Constitution Annotated
   
   https://constitution.congress.gov › constitution › preamble
   

   U.S. Constitution - The Preamble | Resources | Constitution Annotated ...​

   We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
3. 
   
   View attachment 1705588

It appears Canada is experiencing a bit of tyranny right now.

We can ask a few members on this forum the difference between the national guard and a police force if you would like.

The national guard are trained as war fighters, not policing.....in a pinch they could be used in a very limited manner within a war zone but the threat of use of deadly force would always be the Achille's heel in this case......IF a national guard member were painted into a corner and had to use deadly force against a US citizen....what then? Why put them into such a position in the first place when the US already has many layers of police....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, we know the US is a constitutional republic which is a form of democracy....have a read.....

Is the US a democracy? Yes, but it's more complicated than you thought. — We the Veterans

America is a democracy - of the people, by the people, and for the people. In Greek, "demos" means people. That is what the framers intended and that's how it's always been right? Maybe, but not exactly. Recently, we've been hearting an unfamiliar argument: the United States of America is

www.wetheveterans.us

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and what is going on here in Canada which makes you think we are experiencing any tyranny?

[CBXRider]

I knew it. The first rung on the MAGA ladder is the denial that the country is a democracy. They forget that we hold free elections from city councils to the president. They forget…of the people, by the people and for the people. They also forget that national guardsmen fired into a crowd of unarmed Kent State students wounding nine and KILLING four.

[Zerks]

We can ask a few members on this forum the difference between the national guard and a police force if you would like.

The national guard are trained as war fighters, not policing.....in a pinch they could be used in a very limited manner within a war zone but the threat of use of deadly force would always be the Achille's heel in this case......IF a national guard member were painted into a corner and had to use deadly force against a US citizen....what then? Why put them into such a position in the first place when the US already has many layers of police....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, we know the US is a constitutional republic which is a form of democracy....have a read.....

Is the US a democracy? Yes, but it's more complicated than you thought. — We the Veterans

America is a democracy - of the people, by the people, and for the people. In Greek, "demos" means people. That is what the framers intended and that's how it's always been right? Maybe, but not exactly. Recently, we've been hearting an unfamiliar argument: the United States of America is

www.wetheveterans.us

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and what is going on here in Canada which makes you think we are experiencing any tyranny?

"Anyone who tells you that you don’t live in a democracy might have an agenda to undermine your fundamental right to choose your leaders."

Above is the last line from your link. I don't have an agenda here... reading your link simply identified all the ways a democracy could be identified and it was the same with the Constitutional Republic label as both terms were used as examples of what is what.

Looks to me it's even more representative of what has been going on with elections and the use of "Dominion" brand vote counting machines used in elections here in America and elsewhere.

If ever there was an agenda for a way one side beats the other side in an election... that Dominion vote counting machine is the Crown Jewel of how to fix an election. Voting machine tech people have already chimed in under oath stating that these machines can be manipulated in an undetectable manner to sway the tally of the votes being counted.

The National Guard is not the same National Guard it was decades ago. The world is evolving in many ways and re educating The National Guard to perform various task isn't a stretch. We see many various duties performed depending on what is required such as humanitarian rescue and supply missions.

The tragic event at Kent State back in the 70s when Vietnam war protest were taking place was the most extreme example of the National Guard taking innocent lives that should never have happened. Their is no excuse for that act of defenceless slaughter.

[Bumblebee]

The National Guard is not the same National Guard it was decades ago. The world is evolving in many ways and re educating The National Guard to perform various task isn't a stretch. We see many various duties performed depending on what is required such as humanitarian rescue and supply missions.

The tragic event at Kent State back in the 70s when Vietnam war protest were taking place was the most extreme example of the National Guard taking innocent lives that should never have happened. Their is no excuse for that act of defenceless slaughter.

How are you educated in this information? What training or experience do you have to make this assumption?

All modern western militaries operate under similar doctrines.......fighting a three block war where there can be warfighting, peacekeeping and humanitarian aid all occurring at once or in series......

However........any military force including national guard is not a police force which is trained in the application of the criminal code.....there is no direct correlation between warfighting and policing, they are two completely different skill sets...

Whenever western countries occupy major cities, there is an appetite to leave the local police force intact so that it might continue policing while the occupying force is freed up to conduct intel gathering/warfighting operations....

There is no change to the role of the national guard over the years, and that role was never to conduct policing......it was always first and foremost warfighting.

[Zerks]

How are you educated in this information? What training or experience do you have to make this assumption?

All modern western militaries operate under similar doctrines.......fighting a three block war where there can be warfighting, peacekeeping and humanitarian aid all occurring at once or in series......

However........any military force including national guard is not a police force which is trained in the application of the criminal code.....there is no direct correlation between warfighting and policing, they are two completely different skill sets...

Whenever western countries occupy major cities, there is an appetite to leave the local police force intact so that it might continue policing while the occupying force is freed up to conduct intel gathering/warfighting operations....

There is no change to the role of the national guard over the years, and that role was never to conduct policing......it was always first and foremost warfighting.

That is interesting operation to consider when LA police are busting rioters for looting and and theft while the National Guard stands feet away and covers the police as they make the arrest of these imbeciles.... aka.... stupid people.

Not buying the singularity of purpose when it comes to a trained force. One dimensional people that have been trained for battle would find themselves facing less complex scenarios when it comes to handling crowds determined to riot. The same tools would apply... rubber bullets, flash bang grenades along with whatever gas they choose to repel the rioters. Crowd control isn't modern battlefield tactics and strategies designed to eliminate or capture the enemy unless they are using violent force.

Criminal codes? Can a National Guard determine the difference between a protestor and a rioter? Can anybody including the National Guard tell the difference between somebody holding a sign and standing with like minded people in protest as compared to somebody that is looting, destroying state and federal property, attacking police cars, and endangering the lives of innocent people?

I have no training... I just know the difference between protestors sending a message with signs and voices and people burning, looting, throwing projectiles and causing harm to people around them. Do you have to be trained to know the difference?

[CBXRider]

Knowing the difference is just the first step. Knowing how to treat them is another. Soldiers don’t know anymore than civilians, trump included

[Zerks]

Knowing the difference is just the first step. Knowing how to treat them is another. Soldiers don’t know anymore than civilians, trump included

Trump isn't a National Guardsman. But thanks for making me aware of that in case I didn't already know that.

Knowing how to treat rioters that destroy property and threaten the safety of others is different because the legal parameters for liability are different.

Its a whole lot different than me stoping somebody from destroying my property or attacking me personally.

All I know is my first personal responsibility is to not become a victim of an assault.

Beyond that the legal line gets a little murky in the Nanny State of California. If you decide to protect your property in this state you better have some insurance for a legal defense if needed if the perp gets hurt or worse.

You also don't want the thief, vandal or destroyer of your property to get hurt by you if you confronted them. You also don't want them to get hurt in anyway because it could turn into a legal issue through no fault of your own making. I would never trust a DA or a judge to make the right decision in a case where a criminal trespasser got hurt.

[CBXRider]

Your first responsibility (everyone’s) first responsibility is to do no harm and not add to the issue at hand. And I said nothing about trump not being a guardsman.

[Bumblebee]

That is interesting operation to consider when LA police are busting rioters for looting and and theft while the National Guard stands feet away and covers the police as they make the arrest of these imbeciles.... aka.... stupid people.

Not buying the singularity of purpose when it comes to a trained force. One dimensional people that have been trained for battle would find themselves facing less complex scenarios when it comes to handling crowds determined to riot. The same tools would apply... rubber bullets, flash bang grenades along with whatever gas they choose to repel the rioters. Crowd control isn't modern battlefield tactics and strategies designed to eliminate or capture the enemy unless they are using violent force.

Criminal codes? Can a National Guard determine the difference between a protestor and a rioter? Can anybody including the National Guard tell the difference between somebody holding a sign and standing with like minded people in protest as compared to somebody that is looting, destroying state and federal property, attacking police cars, and endangering the lives of innocent people?

I have no training... I just know the difference between protestors sending a message with signs and voices and people burning, looting, throwing projectiles and causing harm to people around them. Do you have to be trained to know the difference?

Like I pointed out.......the national guard is not trained or designed to conduct local policing, nor is any military force.....

They could be brought in to aid civil power but as soon as they are thrust into a "controlling" position, there could be a very good chance they would have to place hands on their own citizens......this is where the problem lives.....history has shown us that having a military force act as police force is the act of an authoritarian dictatorship....countries such as WW2 Germany, Russia, North Korea among other such nations have resorted to using this tactic and we all know the result......upholding human rights and liberties is paramount and the proper application of the criminal code is designed for this......
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is this the vision you have for America, troops in the streets maintaining public order? Being untrained in applying human rights and the criminal code, do you not think there would be an open door for abuse?

......and as I have tirelessly pointed out.......people who vote democrat are not the only ones out there on the streets, as it was pointed out several times, there is a large contingent of people who don't follow any political alignment who are out there too......I would even wager to go out on a limb and say there are people of all walks of life and political ideology out there.....so this isn't a "right verses left" battle......this is an American verses American battle....
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The national guard or any military force can't be trained on the use and application of the criminal code and still be trained on the application of the law of armed conflict......it's too much to ask of the average soldier. The modern battlefield is a very complex environment, gone are the days of a mass bayonet charge across no man's land....soldiers have to be smarter than ever before in order to stay alive....adding another layer to their training will take away from their primary function and this would result in many deaths on the battlefield....

To have a small glimpse into how modern wars are fought, look at Ukraine and Russia, and this is just a small snippet of how a large modern war is fought......these soldiers wouldn't have the capacity to add policing into their knowledge base.....

Just because the west has been experiencing a lengthy peacetime, this doesn't mean a major war can't come along-and you need your troops ready for this, not policing your own citizens.

[Red05]

That is interesting operation to consider when LA police are busting rioters for looting and and theft while the National Guard stands feet away and covers the police as they make the arrest of these imbeciles.... aka.... stupid people.

You realize you typed that in the present tense, right? There is no rioting going on in Los Angeles. There is a lot of excitement about the Rams' success so far, and they Kings are coming around nicely. Maybe that's what you meant.

[Zerks]

You realize you typed that in the present tense, right? There is no rioting going on in Los Angeles. There is a lot of excitement about the Rams' success so far, and they Kings are coming around nicely. Maybe that's what you meant.

Keep those blinders on... never look at the carnage in the wake of the protest just like the good little lock stepper you are.

25 million fresh illegals with tens of thousands liberal sympathizers that think the rule of law and secure borders is an outdated system of governence are your chosen class of inhabitants. Those illegals compete for resources including jobs, housing, and other resources consumed daily... and people wonder what causes inflation other than excessive money printing... of keystrokes on the computer ledger that shows us the US Debt.

NFL football have become questionable on a recent few occasions. Last year it was the AFC playoff game with the Bills and the Chiefs with the referees making bad calls that the talking heads ( like Steven Smith ) in the sports media complex talked about for 2 weeks right up to the Super Bowl game.
Sure... I love that sport... high school, college of pro.

[Red05]

Lock stepper huh? Blabber all you want, still no riots in Los Angeles.

Bleh

[Zerks]

Lock stepper huh? Blabber all you want, still no riots in Los Angeles.

Bleh

I guess the video tapes were AI. I guess the spray painted federal buildings were AI. I guess the stores that got robbed were AI. I guess the rocks and or chunks of concrete thrown onto police cars from the bridge above them was AI. I guess the driverless cars burning in the street was AI. I guess the guy throwing projectiles at Police SUVs and smashing their windshields as they drove by was AI. I heard Stevie Wonder couldn't see it either.

[Zerks]

Like I pointed out.......the national guard is not trained or designed to conduct local policing, nor is any military force.....

They could be brought in to aid civil power but as soon as they are thrust into a "controlling" position, there could be a very good chance they would have to place hands on their own citizens......this is where the problem lives.....history has shown us that having a military force act as police force is the act of an authoritarian dictatorship....countries such as WW2 Germany, Russia, North Korea among other such nations have resorted to using this tactic and we all know the result......upholding human rights and liberties is paramount and the proper application of the criminal code is designed for this......
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is this the vision you have for America, troops in the streets maintaining public order? Being untrained in applying human rights and the criminal code, do you not think there would be an open door for abuse?

......and as I have tirelessly pointed out.......people who vote democrat are not the only ones out there on the streets, as it was pointed out several times, there is a large contingent of people who don't follow any political alignment who are out there too......I would even wager to go out on a limb and say there are people of all walks of life and political ideology out there.....so this isn't a "right verses left" battle......this is an American verses American battle....
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The national guard or any military force can't be trained on the use and application of the criminal code and still be trained on the application of the law of armed conflict......it's too much to ask of the average soldier. The modern battlefield is a very complex environment, gone are the days of a mass bayonet charge across no man's land....soldiers have to be smarter than ever before in order to stay alive....adding another layer to their training will take away from their primary function and this would result in many deaths on the battlefield....

To have a small glimpse into how modern wars are fought, look at Ukraine and Russia, and this is just a small snippet of how a large modern war is fought......these soldiers wouldn't have the capacity to add policing into their knowledge base.....

Just because the west has been experiencing a lengthy peacetime, this doesn't mean a major war can't come along-and you need your troops ready for this, not policing your own citizens.

Well, that settles it... National Guardsman can only be trained to do one thing when it comes to people that oppose them and cannot learn anything else. Once trained they become one dimensional. They can't adapt or get trained to do anything that they haven't been trained to do. That is my understanding of your points made.

The only battle is for common sense which is sadly lacking these days. You only have to watch Jay Leno, Mark Dice and several others quiz people about the simplest points in history to understand many people have no clue when this country was born, what part the US Constitution played in forming this country and who the leaders were that were the leadership that led this country.

These points are really by design... the powers that be want history forgotten by those children growing up today. Civics class? What's that? Financial education? Huh? Its missing and yet good financial literacy is crucial to one's success in life. Even a tradesman that learns his craft and starts a business that succeeds and grows better know the basics of accounting.

Charlie Kirk was a threat to the educational systems that limited the historical knowledge that would normally be passed of to future generations... thus... Charlie had to go.

[Bumblebee]

Well, that settles it... National Guardsman can only be trained to do one thing when it comes to people that oppose them and cannot learn anything else. Once trained they become one dimensional. They can't adapt or get trained to do anything that they haven't been trained to do. That is my understanding of your points made.

Please, you have zero clue as to what it takes to train a soldier to operate in a modern battlefield so don't attempt to belittle this.

The modern battlefield is very, very complex and is more than enough for anyone to master without throwing more into the mix.

.....and remember that National Guard troops also have jobs outside the guard