Russia and Ukraine

[Red05]

Like it or not Zelinsky and Putin have A LOT in common, and YES the US pushed for this war under Biden and Harris

The only thing pushed for was for Putin to get his azz out of Ukraine, by Zelenskyy and Biden. Funny you mention Harris. What's JD Vance done for us lately, other than to not be endorsed by his boss as a possible eventual replacement?

[Duro5341]

The only thing pushed for was for Putin to get his azz out of Ukraine, by Zelenskyy and Biden. Funny you mention Harris. What's JD Vance done for us lately, other than to not be endorsed by his boss as a possible eventual replacement?

Because of Biden and Harris arming Ukraine and talks about them joining Nato, these are the reason's Putin invaded in Feb 2022..........................He sent multiple warnings to both the US and Ukraine that what they were doing was in direct violation of the peace agreement between Russia and Ukraine.

Instead of the US and Ukraine heeding these warnings and abiding by the peace agreement, they continued.......................................and thus Putin begun his invasion. Why should you expect Russia to follow the peace agreement, when the other party was in direct violation of it??????

As for what Vance has done?, He has done exactly what the president should have done in that situation.
Give Zelinsky a reality check, and show him that endless war is NOT the answer and unless he is willing to negotiate with Putin/Trump he is on his own. It is NOT up to the world to fun his tyranny, and endless war with Russia which he CANNOT win.

Make no mistake, Biden and Harris wanted this war and Zelisky went for it hook line and sinker as he saw it as a way to expand his own country/status..........................The US should NOT be over there, they should NOT be talking about joining Nato, and Ukraine SHOULD abide by it's signed peace deal with Russia.

Ukrainian people are getting exactly what their government signed them up for, and they should be overthrowing this tyrant before he leads them all to the slaughter house to prove a point he can't seem to see is unattainable.

What Russia did was the result of US/Ukraine provocation, and US and Ukraine are certainly finding out when they when F&*(king around.
How can you denounce Russia for not abiding to the peace deal, when Ukraine was the first to violate it?????? Hypocrite much?????

Cameron

[Red05]

these are the reason's Putin invaded in Feb 2022..........................He sent multiple warnings to both the US and Ukraine that what they were doing was in direct violation of the peace agreement between Russia and Ukraine.

Are you talking about the 1997 agreement that neither side would invade the other and declare war, and Russia violated in Crimea? Or maybe the one a week after Der Putin invaded Ukraine and declared war? Which one, Cameron?

How can you denounce Russia for not abiding to the peace deal, when Ukraine was the first to violate it?????? Hypocrite much?????

You? Not a hypocrite. You mean what you say, no matter how senseless.

[voodoodoo]

What Russia did was the result of US/Ukraine provocation, and US and Ukraine are certainly finding out when they when F&*(king around.
How can you denounce Russia for not abiding to the peace deal, when Ukraine was the first to violate it?????? Hypocrite much?????

Say what?

Russia has broken every "deal" done by annexing crimea, then the occupation of Donetsk&Luhansk and then the full scale invation.
They have also conducted military operations in several other neighbouring contries to keep them "on a leash" so to say.
These countries are(of course Ukraine)

Moldova(1992, They still occupy part of it)
Georgia(2008)
Kazakhstan(2022)

Ukraine DID not violate any peace deal ever.

BUT they did not follow Russias "red line" when it came to their "flirt" with Nato/EU.
Not a very smart move now that we know the result.
The responsibility of starting the war is lies on Russia/Putin, let there be no doubt about that.

As mentioned before, I am hoping that DT's friendly diplomacy with Putin is part of a greater plan although i fear its not.

The economic result of Europe starting to rely less on US military support might not have the positive economic effect the US leadership want. Right now the EU sees US as less thrustworthy and when they start to modernize their weapon systems they will probably buy more "in house" systems and less US made systems. As for now only the French have had that policy.

As for my country Norway we are a big supplier and partner with the US and due to our geographic importance i cannot see that we will part with US systems in the next 30-40 years. We just bought 54 F35's in a country with approx 5.5mill inhabitants. We do also fulfill our defence budget spending according to the Nato and the US defence minister is "100% Norwegian"

[voodoodoo]

View attachment 1695685

And most of the weapons given to Ukraine was weapons nearing expiration wich means that the us goverment would have to pay someone to have them dismantled. These are

1. Older anti-tank weapons – For example, Javelin missiles from earlier production batches. These were still effective but had a limited remaining shelf life.
2. HIMARS rockets – Some of the M142 HIMARS rockets were older models but remained fully functional.
3. Tanks and armored vehicles – The U.S. has sent M113 armored personnel carriers and Bradley infantry fighting vehicles, which were no longer at the forefront of the U.S. military’s plans. The M1 Abrams tanks delivered were older variants without certain advanced systems.
4. Artillery and ammunition – The U.S. has provided M777 howitzers, which are still in use by American forces, but also older artillery shells, including some dating back to the Cold War.
5. Air defense systems – Ukraine has received older Hawk air defense missiles, which were originally replaced by the Patriot system in the U.S.

Although much of the equipment was older, the U.S. has also supplied modern weapons, such as Patriot air defense systems and drones, which were not being phased out. But by using these systems the producers learn a lot and the software/harware has been developed a lot during 3 years of real warfare.

Additionally, U.S. support for Ukraine has led to increased orders for new equipment, strengthening the American defense industry.

[Red05]

Say what?

Russia has broken every "deal" done by annexing crimea, then the occupation of Donetsk&Luhansk and then the full scale invation.
They have also conducted military operations in several other neighbouring contries to keep them "on a leash" so to say.
These countries are(of course Ukraine)

Moldova(1992, They still occupy part of it)
Georgia(2008)
Kazakhstan(2022)

Ukraine DID not violate any peace deal ever.

BUT they did not follow Russias "red line" when it came to their "flirt" with Nato/EU.
Not a very smart move now that we know the result.
The responsibility of starting the war is lies on Russia/Putin, let there be no doubt about that.

Cameron likes to come on here and spout gibberish. I think "say what?" after most of his posts.

[CBXRider]

How can anyone consider wanting to join NATO to be an act of war?

[Red05]

How can anyone consider wanting to join NATO to be an act of war?

Ask Putin how he rationalizes it. When someone is that worried about neighbors, they're either hiding or are ashamed of something.

[jellyrug]

How can anyone consider wanting to join NATO to be an act of war?

I think California should join BREXIT and adopt the Yuan as their currency. It will be a good thing for Liberals.

[jellyrug]

This is what I think should happen in Ukraine:

1. Cease fire.
2. Fair presidential elections supervised by the UN after we agree the process with Zelenskyy.
3. Elections in Eastern Ukraine, supervised by the UN to determine who wants to be part of Russia and who wants to be part of Ukraine.
4.) Based on 4 either cede land, or give it back to Ukraine.
5.) An agreement that there will be no threat to Russia by expanding European interests to the East and Ukraine will not join NATO.
6.) Peace.

[Duro5341]

How can anyone consider wanting to join NATO to be an act of war?

Would YOU want your largest enemy on your doorstep????????????, look what happened when Cuba and Russia got together, the US lost it's mind for 40 years and tried to destroy the Cuban economy. And that's 90 miles away with a strait running between them.

This is a direct border, we are talking inches here.

Cameron

[jellyrug]

I think California should join BREXIT and adopt the Yuan as their currency. It will be a good thing for Liberals.

Still sleeping. I meant BRICS.
Anyway, meant in humor.

[jellyrug]

Would YOU want your largest enemy on your doorstep????????????, look what happened when Cuba and Russia got together, the US lost it's mind for 40 years and tried to destroy the Cuban economy. And that's 90 miles away with a strait running between them.

This is a direct border, we are talking inches here.

Cameron

Short memories prevail, both when it comes to Russia and Israel.

[Oz22]

In 2015 John Mearsheimer, an American political scientist and international relations scholar, spelled out plainly what would happen if ukriane allowed America to lead it down the primrose path. It would be Wrecked. And he was right.

Full talk, Discussing the deep causes of this conflict.
ww.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4

If you live outside the US all this is obvious. The U.S.A. is a dying empire and in it's death throes it's doing anything it can to maintain power over world affairs. It's sad really. If you live there that is.

[CBXRider]

“The U.S.A. is a dying empire and in its death throes it's doing anything it can to maintain power over world affairs. It's sad really. If you live there that is.”

Dying empire my ass. Stay the hell out of my country. Go live in Cunnamulla. It would fit you just fine.

[TallTom]

In 2015 John Mearsheimer, an American political scientist and international relations scholar, spelled out plainly what would happen if ukriane allowed America to lead it down the primrose path. It would be Wrecked. And he was right.

Full talk, Discussing the deep causes of this conflict.
ww.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4

If you live outside the US all this is obvious. The U.S.A. is a dying empire and in it's death throes it's doing anything it can to maintain power over world affairs. It's sad really. If you live there that is.

It's been in decline for decades. Getting sapped slowly but steadily.

There's hope it can recover, but I've already decided I won't wait here to live to see it. Doubt I can live that long. Liberals certainly weren't the pathway. Not sure the Republicans can pull it together either. China will win the spot at the rate they are going.

[Oz22]

It's been in decline for decades. Getting sapped slowly but steadily.

And that's all that matters unless you're a billionaire and can insulate yourself. All the rest is just political jawboning and mass media hype.

[Red05]

The US want's Putin out of power, as he will NOT bend the knee to the US

You seriously think the U.S. wants Russia to "bend a knee"? The U.S. was supporting a nation that was basically defenseless against a much stronger force that had attacked unprovoked. Bending wills has nothing to do with it. Biden was doing the right thing supporting Ukraine despite your maniacal ravings about Zelenskyy. I see where Russia turned up the military heat and Trump actually made a statement threatening Russia with large scale sanctions. It wouldn’t shock me if this was some theatrical secret agreement between he and Putin, but if not, Good on him. Yeah, I said it.

[jellyrug]

You seriously think the U.S. wants Russia to "bend a knee"? The U.S. was supporting a nation that was basically defenseless against a much stronger force that had attacked unprovoked. Bending wills has nothing to do with it. Biden was doing the right thing supporting Ukraine despite your maniacal ravings about Zelenskyy. I see where Russia turned up the military heat and Trump actually made a statement threatening Russia with large scale sanctions. It wouldn’t shock me if this was some theatrical secret agreement between he and Putin, but if not, Good on him. Yeah, I said it.

With all that wisdom offered, if I ask you how the United States should endeavor to end this war, do you have an answer?

[Red05]

With all that wisdom offered, if I ask you how the United States should endeavor to end this war, do you have an answer?

It’s not wisdom, Jelly, it’s just a plain truth. The United States, despite all the wisdom spouted by Duro and others, did not start this war and thus can’t end it. This isn’t like a street fight where you grab one guy from behind and someone else grabs the other. Zelenskyy could give away his country and end it, as you have implied you would, but don’t come off all holier than thou as if that’s automatically the right answer. In my estimation, it lays in the hands of Vlad Putin. Your post #2690 is valid but only after an end of war.