Who here has a second sport bike
- Thread starter black diamond busa
- Start date
Nope, you are still mistaken. The only advantage the 750 has over the 600 is HP. The two bikes are identical in every aspect except HP. They don't come off the corner any better than the 600. It's only when both wheels are on the ground that in level flight that the 750 can use the extra HP. When both wheels are on the deck the 750 gets left behind by a liter bike or the mighty busa.
I think you are missing the point all together. The point I was making is that neither the busa nor the 1000 comes off the corner faster than a 600 with the added HP. It's only when both wheels are on the deck and the bike is up on the fat part of the tire that HP makes a difference. There is a reason 600's are more nimble in the corners. Do you know why?
And just to be clear and make sure we are both on the same page, your busa is going to spank the 750's a$$ once the bike is stood up and both wheels are down! So I don't understand your point.
Nope, you are still mistaken. The only advantage the 750 has over the 600 is HP. The two bikes are identical in every aspect except HP. They don't come off the corner any better than the 600. It's only when both wheels are on the ground that in level flight that the 750 can use the extra HP. When both wheels are on the deck the 750 gets left behind by a liter bike or the mighty busa.
I think you are missing the point all together. The point I was making is that neither the busa nor the 1000 comes off the corner faster than a 600 with the added HP. It's only when both wheels are on the deck and the bike is up on the fat part of the tire that HP makes a difference. There is a reason 600's are more nimble in the corners. Do you know why?
And just to be clear and make sure we are both on the same page, your busa is going to spank the 750's a$$ once the bike is stood up and both wheels are down! So I don't understand your point.
You can say I am wrong, however I know of others who have said similar to what I am saying. I am not trying to start anything nor prove anything, I just don't believe you are the supreme authority. My opinion is that I believe the hp does make a little difference. It is my opinion as you have yours. You yourself said it is ok to disagree. I am starting to think that with you it is more like, you can disagree but you are wrong.
If you want a 1000 and have $3k to spend, keep looking, they're out there.
The laws of physics are pretty much absolute. I'm assuming you are arguing for the sake of arguing? If the foundation of your argument is "I have friends who agree with me" then we are both wasting our time.
If you truly believe (And apparently you do) that increased HP gives the 750 an advantage over the 600 (All being equal) to change directions (which cornering does) please tell us how that works? You can take the time to ask your friends who agree with you if you like.
Here is something to think about when you are digesting this cornering thing (Radius equals speed and speed equals radius at a given lean angle). Consider you only have 100 points of traction available. When you are at max lean you are using 100 of those points for lateral grip. If you add any throttle the tire will loose traction. As you reduce lean angle as the bike stands up you can only add throttle to the extent of the number of traction points you have given up by reducing lean angle. Example: It your lean angle is reduced by 10 degrees and now the bike is only using 75 of the 100 available points of traction you now have 25 points of traction to apply to forward thrust by use of throttle. And the scale continues as the lean angle is reduced to zero in which case all 100 pts of traction can be used for forward motion. No amount of added HP can change that equation. A corner is described from the vertical point of tipin to the vertical point of exit. Does that make sense?
This is the approach we take at our riding school when teaching riders "Powerband Management". Cornering has little if anything to do with how much HP your bike has but how you manage the HP you have with the available traction.
You are correct about one thing, I am not a supreme authority on anything other than fat women. However, I suspect there is a good chance I've been romping two wheels longer than you've been alive and I'm happy to share some of the things I've learned along the way with my friends!
The question is still there: "Why does a gsxr600 corner/change directions quicker and easier than a gsxr1000.
The laws of physics are pretty much absolute. I'm assuming you are arguing for the sake of arguing? If the foundation of your argument is "I have friends who agree with me" then we are both wasting our time.
If you truly believe (And apparently you do) that increased HP gives the 750 an advantage over the 600 (All being equal) to change directions (which cornering does) please tell us how that works? You can take the time to ask your friends who agree with you if you like.
Here is something to think about when you are digesting this cornering thing (Radius equals speed and speed equals radius at a given lean angle). Consider you only have 100 points of traction available. When you are at max lean you are using 100 of those points for lateral grip. If you add any throttle the tire will loose traction. As you reduce lean angle as the bike stands up you can only add throttle to the extent of the number of traction points you have given up by reducing lean angle. Example: It your lean angle is reduced by 10 degrees and now the bike is only using 75 of the 100 available points of traction you now have 25 points of traction to apply to forward thrust by use of throttle. And the scale continues as the lean angle is reduced to zero in which case all 100 pts of traction can be used for forward motion. No amount of added HP can change that equation. A corner is described from the vertical point of tipin to the vertical point of exit. Does that make sense?
This is the approach we take at our riding school when teaching riders "Powerband Management". Cornering has little if anything to do with how much HP your bike has but how you manage the HP you have with the available traction.
You are correct about one thing, I am not a supreme authority on anything other than fat women. However, I suspect there is a good chance I've been romping two wheels longer than you've been alive and I'm happy to share some of the things I've learned along the way with my friends!
The question is still there: "Why does a gsxr600 corner/change directions quicker and easier than a gsxr1000.
Wow you come across as a real....never mind. There's one on every form of Motorsport.
Trust me I'm looking
pan
Registered
Pan, you gotta get that thang out of the novice group so you can find your place in the pecking order! Lighter and better than a 600 or 1000? I have friends on 600's who would take great pleasure in shaming you on your carbon fiber busa.
Big HP bikes are fun to ride but most would climb the skills ladder faster on less HP. Bikes with less HP such as the 600's, takes an entirely different mind set to ride fast. Street riders who start out on big HP bikes make up for mistakes with throttle. You can't do that with 600 cc's. The SV650 with 74 HP may be the best bike on the planet to start on. In the world of racing the 600's are only 1-3 seconds slower than the liter bikes depending on track layout. 600 cc bikes with proper set up and a skilled nut behind the bars come off the corners with the front tire in the air. More HP at that point is useless.
By the way, who (Good question for Pan) can tell me why a 600 changes direction so much better than a busa or even a 1000 for that matter? 600's and 1000's are very close in weight and size.
Another point for the fat guys: :tongue4: It's much more physically demanding to ride a big HP bike fast. Just hanging onto the beast once the throttle is against the stop is a chore. So, if you have plans of riding a big bike "Fast" for a 20 minute session at the track, buy yourself a bicycle as a second bike and "USE" it.
You are right! ...based on your assumptions
. Otherwise you're totally wrong
.Your ill-informed assumptions:
# it weighs more than a 1000 or a 600
# I'm riding in novice group
# I'm racing to beat 600's
I rode and learned by riding Aprillia RS250, RGV250, GSXR600 and race-prep GSXR750 on the track and loved it.
I don't ride the Carbon Fibre Busa to beat 600's. I don't race it. It's a hobby! I ride it because it's fun. You can pull out of a corner on a 600, light a cigarette, stretch your legs and scratch your butt, then still have plenty of time to hit the brakes before the next corner. On a Busa it's a pure rush! You take off like a rocket and if you blink you'll miss the tip in point for the next corner. Much more fun!
I'm going to go ahead and make an assumption here: you don't ride much on the track, do you?
For the record, I have friends that could ride my Busa that would shame you on a Moto GP race bike. That's not the point though, is it?
ashby
Registered
I have a 2011 Haybusa that I love, I had a 2004 before this one that was also great. I ride alot and wanted a 2nd bike (my wife has a Z1000 but yells at me whenever I steal it) but I couldnt do a 600. So I just purchased a Panigale, I pick it up Thursday after work. People who don't ride don't understand. As long as there is room in the garage.......
red1100cc
Registered
having a few other bikes is always a good idea. :thumbs:
but if your just gonna spank it and do stunts and such, dont pay 3k for one! especially with rash already. $1500 maybe, free is better.
i got a f4i given to me. 1500mi on it, only wheelied once.
it needed some parts, but heck it was free.
but if your just gonna spank it and do stunts and such, dont pay 3k for one! especially with rash already. $1500 maybe, free is better.
i got a f4i given to me. 1500mi on it, only wheelied once.
it needed some parts, but heck it was free.
You are right! ...based on your assumptions
Otherwise you're totally wrong
Your ill-informed assumptions:
# it weighs more than a 1000 or a 600
# I'm riding in novice group
# I'm racing to beat 600's
I rode and learned by riding Aprillia RS250, RGV250, GSXR600 and race-prep GSXR750 on the track and loved it.
I don't ride the Carbon Fibre Busa to beat 600's. I don't race it. It's a hobby! I ride it because it's fun. You can pull out of a corner on a 600, light a cigarette, stretch your legs and scratch your butt, then still have plenty of time to hit the brakes before the next corner. On a Busa it's a pure rush! You take off like a rocket and if you blink you'll miss the tip in point for the next corner. Much more fun!
I'm going to go ahead and make an assumption here: you don't ride much on the track, do you?
For the record, I have friends that could ride my Busa that would shame you on a Moto GP race bike. That's not the point though, is it?
Dang Pal, a little thin skinned there, eh?
I guess we've all got friends or yuncles, cusins etc who could spank the crap out of Casey Stoner if only they had his bike.
I have no idea how much your busa weighs but I do know it has to shed a hundred pounds to be 600 weight. Now I'm not saying you didn't accomplish that task but I am saying I'd have to see it on the scales to believe it.
I do believe you said your busa track bike was lighter and way better than any ole 600 or 10000?
I've been to two track days now and I've not seen a busa in the advanced group that wasn't at the back after two laps.
I understand you have a fun bike that serves your purpose gracefully at the track. My apologies if you took my jovial attempt to poke a little fun at you seriously.
I'm hoping to pick up another Gen II bike either the same gray 2008 I have or a black 2009. The only reason being is that I've gotten to the point of no return on my 2008 and while I can still street ride it, I'd rather keep the miles off of it. Seeing that I had so much fun and great luck with my current Gen II, I can't see myself riding anything else for bombing around town and when it comes to 2-up riding, I wouldn't want to ride anything else
pan
Registered
Well put. I think you hit the nail on the head right there!
I really love that color scheme on those bikes. Its probably the best stock colors you can get.
So why does the 600 turn better?
I'm going to go ahead and make an assumption here: you don't ride much on the track, do you?
For the record, I have friends that could ride my Busa that would shame you on a Moto GP race bike. That's not the point though, is it?
For the record, I call BS...
I've got a Busa and a 1K and have ridden both on the track. I'm not going to say that a 1st class rider couldn't spank the daylights out of a Busa on the track, but I've never seen one out in advanced, and any advantage gained on the straight is going to get lost in corner entry, corner, and at least part of corner exit. A Busa is not going to outbrake or out turn a 600 or 1K with identical riders, period. I don't care how many thousands of dollars of carbon fiber wheels or frame you've got in it.
I guess you hadn't seen my other post
:https://www.hayabusa.org/forum/gene...e-lookie-posterboy-2fast-our-own-tufbusa.html
Simple physics: The answer is in the rotational mass and gyroscopic movement of the smaller engine of a 600, Even more than a 750 (which uses same bits as a 600 but has a longer stroke to get the extra displacement). You ever tried to get your Busa to turn once it gets up to higher speeds? Take the high-speed back straight at Road Atlanta for an example; that's a 170+MPH turn, and when you hit it and try to lean your bike over, it REALLY doesn't want to turn because the rotational mass and high RPM of that engine is trying to force the bike to ride in a straight line. Smaller rotational engine mass (crankshaft, pistons, everything spinning) means the bike will turn faster and inside bike with larger mass engine with everything else equal.
So you have taken a turn at 170mph?
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