Tre

Sorry professor
I guess i translated his words wrong , my mistake. I wish i had something to add to this thread as i am very interested in it and it seems to have died. I honestly dont know why any engine management would care about gear selection , it should just drive to mapped A/F ratio like most systems , no matter the load (i am refering to car engine systems). I am very interested in learning more about the hayabusa computers.
 
(2busa @ Dec. 10 2006,13:54) Professor,


2. No, I do no agree the resistance voltage determines which gear it's in. The 3rd wire is the gear recognition. The resistance wire is part of the FI "analog" A/F readings. Meaning, "Air" is the (constantly changing) temp/air-pressure and "Fuel" determines the final fuel quantity. The ground wire completes the circuit.

Do you agree what the 3 GPS wires do? If you don't, then explain how the the analog A/F is determined?
2busa

The GPS has 3 wires that come out of it.

Wire 1 Black, goes to ground.

Wire 2 Blue Controls the Neutral light. This wire connects both to the Neutral light and to the ECU. When you put the busa in Neutral it ties the Blue wire to ground. This lights the neutral light and provides an indication the ECU.

Wire 2 Pink. Goes to the directly to the ECU. In neutral it is open. When in gear it connects the pink through the appropriate resistor (one of the 6 contained in the GPS) to ground.


We are still on the GPS Sensor input for the ECU. There is no additional information sent along these 3 wires.


Do you agree with this part?

If you decide to download the manual. It is on page 8-15.
 
I agree, Professor. Remember, there is the, "clutch out-no start in gear" safety lock-out going on with the GPS signaling.

Let's stick with GPS and the analog voltage values. Professor, are you telling me it takes 6 different voltage values to display the gear selector number, or the voltage has something to do with the fuel delivery as an, 'analog parameter" for the FI system.

Toona, You are explaining the same exact default system the ECM does when the IAC falls out of the loop. The tre causes the same effect... does it not?
 
If we look at the voltage and resistance readings we can predict what the ECU is looking at. With a basic circuit consisting of two resistors in series, we can take a look at how it works.  Look at the Diagram in figure 1. We have an unknown that we can calculate using the electronic formula called Ohms Law. Here is a link to an ohms law chart.


The three things we are concerned with is Current (I), Voltage (E), and Resistance ®. Current is the unknown. Let’s look at 3rd gear. V = 3.03 volts. R= 1500 Ù. Using the  formula  I=V/R   3.03/1500 = .00202 amps (or 2.02 milliamps).  Glancing at the other gears we see that as resistance goes up the amount of voltage dropped across the resistor goes up. Looking at the formula, current will go down as well. Because we also checked it with an open circuit. (Neutral with infinite or maximum resistance) We can see our source voltage. 5.06 volts. 5 Volts is a very common voltage to using in logic circuits. Computers for example use 5 and 12 volts, with 12 volts usually reserved for fans and drive motors. The 5 volts source.
Because we only have two resistors in series and we know the source voltage is 5.06 volts, we can calculate more of the unknown to confirm. The two resistors in series have to drop a total of the voltage applied. If you put two 1.5kÙ resistors in series, you would measure 2.53 volts in the middle. Each resistor would drop 2.53 volts. So we dropped 3.03 volts on R2 in the GPS. The remaining voltage dropped in R1 is 2.03 volts.
Now, flip the Ohm law calculator and we can calculate the resistance of R1 R=2.03/.002.02. 1004.95Ù or 1kÙ .

So can we consistently come up with the same results, know that R1 is not going to change. Let’s calculate all of them to see what we get.

post-47-25402-chart1.jpg


Now this is a little bit of a spread from the 1000Ù   Let’s say user error on the initial readings, some charge/discharge time of any filter capacitors in the circuit etc. I can bump the source voltage from 5.06 to 5.08 and it will tighten up the R1 calculations quite a bit.

post-47-25518-chart2.jpg


So, if we want the Hayabusa to think it is in 3rd gear all the time, I can cut the pink wire and connect a 1.5KÙ resistor from the pink wire going to the ECU and to the ground (black wire)  If I want it to think it is in 5th gear, put in a 6.8KÙ resistor.

This is what a “simple†TRE is doing. The ECU then responds as if it is in 5th gear at all times. It does not go to backup mode, it just responds with the 5th gear settings for timing and fuel.

From what I can tell, if we disconnect the GPS Sensor cable we will lose the ability to put the sidestand down while allowing the engine to run.  The voltage will go to 5. volts.  Documentation is slim on this.  One of two things will happen
1) Throw a c31 code and the ECU will go to the 6th Gear position.
2) Act like it is in 6th gear because the voltage window is still near the window. Of the 6th gear.
RPM will be limited to 10,200 regardless of the gear selected. JC says he has verified it is limited to 10,200. I don’t remember him saying if he got a code.

resisto_circuit.jpg
 
I agree, Professor. Remember, there is the, "clutch out-no start in gear" safety lock-out going on with the GPS signaling. [/Quote]

Well not exactly. The clutch switch circuit is in the start activation circuit.   The GPS is part of the sidestand  - ignition interlock.

The clutch has to be pulled in regardless of what gear it is in. Either the sidestand must be up or the tranmission must be in neutral to allow power to the ECU to keep it running.

interlocksystem.jpg
 
Bingo, Code 31. Thank you, PROFESSOR! Locked 6 is the dash warning for code 31.

Let me guess. The GPS is chapter-ed in the Fuel Injection section. Notice the GPS as part of the FI loop. Are the shift resistances the analog fuel delivery? Notice the different rides (throttle response) when code 31 is set.

Professor, how far off base am I?
 
(2busa @ Dec. 12 2006,13:flamethrowing:) Bingo, Code 31. Thank you, PROFESSOR! Locked 6 is the dash warning for code 31.

Let me guess. The GPS is chapter-ed in the Fuel Injection section. Notice the GPS as part of the FI loop. Are the shift resistances the analog fuel delivery? Notice the different rides (throttle response) when code 31 is set.

Professor, how far off base am I?
As usual, way off.

Sorry, but I'm getting tired of this.
 
Professor, the reason for your frustration is your lack of diagnosing. Here I am ready to replace/repair-reinstall a bad connection (the GPS).
You, Professor, cannot see the ECU take over. When the unit fails, the ECU immediately moves that "analog" telemetry signal to a backup Digi/transis code. The ECU is self diagnosing (see code 31 = look at the GPS first, dummy ~ says the book).

Tired of demonstrating the simple troubleshooting steps of a computer bike? These are so easy to diagnose. It's no wonder a customer drops their bike off at a dealer and is frustrated; having their bike sit for so long in the shop. No on can diagnose the darn computer bike.

Follow the logical steps of the ECU = analog unit fails ~ ECU sets a transistorized (fail-safe) signal. Way off, my gluteus maxi-mus, way off!
7 years of perpetual myths is what you're tired of. The facts are right there and you refuse to see the book diagnose the trouble code.
 
(2busa @ Dec. 13 2006,10:16) Professor, the reason for your frustration is your lack of diagnosing. Here I am ready to replace/repair-reinstall a bad connection (the GPS).
You, Professor, cannot see the ECU take over. When the unit fails, the ECU immediately moves that "analog" telemetry signal to a backup Digi/transis code. The ECU is self diagnosing (see code 31 = look at the GPS first, dummy ~ says the book).
The ECU is seeing something that it normally expects to see. A 6.8k resistor. Normally when the bike is in 5th gear, it sees a 6.8k resistor. When you disconnect that part of the circuit and replace it with a 6.8k resistor, it thinks you are riding around in 5th. No fault, No code, no Fail safe (or backup code as you call it)
 
Professor, please send me the url download of the shop manual. I'm about to tune this bike up on the net. All someone has to do is follow my disconnects, and the, "tre effect" will suddenly appear. It's that simple.

Show me where there are no codes and you shift to 4th. Will 4th receive the same 6.8k, or use the 4th gear, 3.72 voltage value? Remember, code set will run under a volt. No codes, the bike will feed off of the (5) analog voltage values. Install the tre on the 14 and you default to a code. I'm willing to bet the tre triggers a code (in the Busa's ECU) because the tre does change the tune. Only way to alter the tune is to drop the analog signal so the ECU automatically defaults to the digital signal.
Follow the logic, Professor.
poke.gif
 
This thread will get you to the download



Busa topic and board....remember? keep it on topic please.
 
Again, Professor, That's a big thanks. Busa book is like looking at the book I have here next to... no wait.

You said to keep using topical ointment? I'm lost now. Better we tre up. I'm never lost in that thick forest of a thread...

Note the GPS is in the FI (code) loop. Note the analog shift values.

Once again, for anyone that cares to take a guess: Are we in agreement; that the GPS is an, "Analog Fuel Signal" and not the voltage specifically needed to correctly display an N and 6 other numbers, as the Professor (I believe) has stated.

I'm jumping the gun, but; Are we also in agreement that the TRE sets a fail-safe map for the (now internal c31 set) GPS signal.

Answers are in the book.
 
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