Need opinions on CBRXX or Busa

[Guest]

Yeah, I have the same dilemma as well. I like both bikes... A LOT. Honda guy by nature (they always seem to stay nicer longer, not to mention smoother, quieter...) but WOW... 155 RWHP? VERY nice!

I had the opportunity to ride the XX... Absolutely unbelievable! It was smooth and perfect, with an amazing powerband at 7000 RPM+. Everything seemed typically Honda... Perfect! Great ergos... I could be on this bike until I ran out of cash for gas. Lol... Decided that I wanted one, but Suzuki threw a wrench into my plans...

Sat on the 'Busa, but have not seen the opportunity to ride one yet...

I am not particularly a Suzuki guy by nature. I mean, the GSXR 600 and 750 are well known for their trackworthyness (and afforadability as compared to other bikes that are similar, like the R1 and Ducatis) but besides those, what else do they make that is really noticable? The Bandit 1200 is unique, but nobody knows the bike much. The Can-o-Tunas are memorable, but not in a good way. I can think of some others, but none are very notable.

On the other hand, when you think of the ultimate full dresser, you think of a Gold Wing. When you think of a badass cruiser, you think of a Valkyrie. When you think of a terrific sport tourer, you think of a VFR or ST1100, depending on which emphasis you desire. The Fireblade/CBR900 has literally defined sportbikes as we know them, and no other sportbike has sold as well anywhere in the world. The relatively new SuperHawk is probably the best V twin available anywhere. It's hard not to think that the Honda might end up being a classic when the Hayabusa might simply implode.

I have some concerns about the 6th gear problem as well... There is another thread on this site where a bunch of people write in and talk about the problem of not being able to get their bikes into 6th gear. What difference does it make that the bike will go 190 mph if you can't get it past 165 because it won't go into 6th?

And that "light ticking" sound eminating from the bike at 800 miles... Would never happen on a Honda. What the heck is that? For $10,500?!

Lastly, why does Suzuki think it's necessary to rubber mount everything? Even with rubber mounted bars and footpegs, the magazines are still reporting that it's not as smooth as the XX. That's horrible. Still, I keep hearing everyone say how smooth the bike is...

I know from experience that rubber mounted things on bikes do strange things in extreme temperatures. They get soft over 100 degrees and they get too hard below 50. This wouldn't be good, as a streak across Arizona, Nevada, or California might see those kinds of extremes in just a few hours. Desert riding is almost never below 100 degrees, and nighttime riding in the mountains of the desert, due to their altitude, is often near freezing.

Still, there's 155 RWHP... For that much, I might still deal with the vibrations and rubber thingies and get one anyway. 'Course, while it seems like a ton, it's only 16 more ponies, and that can be achieved with minor performance mods. The fuel injection on the Honda is the best known to man, and everyone knows that if you turbo the XX (there are a variety of kits available for the XX, but the Busa is still waiting, or maybe has one so new that I don't know about it yet. This wouldn't be good, either) there would be no contest... Well, until you do all of that to a Busa. But then you'd have to test them in that state against each other, since it would be a new game and either bike could be faster.

One more thing... As I said in another thread, I live in Arizona, and am concerned about the range of the bike. I have been stuck in the desert before. It's really scary.

Kudos to the Busa's cool "zeroing" guages... That's neat! I also like the bike's looks A LOT. Forget what others are saying... It's unique, yes, and it's unusual, yes... My girlfriend hates it's looks, but I think it's gorgeous. Hard to be both unusual and pretty at the same time. It just REEKS of speed. Yes, from the front the bike looks just like a big penis. Yes, from the side that bulbous light looks just like the
"receptacle end" of a condom. But I remember not liking the 'Bird when it first came out either (I remember saying, "It looks like a Batbike," but now I am in love with it's looks.

On the other hand, kudos to the XX's automatic fast idle (when I test rode a BMW k1200RS, that was my favorite feature of the bike, and I wondered why the 'Bird didn't have that. So, they added it... Cool!) and thank God they got Ram air and fuel injection. The bike needed it, and without it it would have lost the competition right off. Now, it's not so easy a decision.

I buy my bike (whichever one I am getting) in four weeks. Still not sure which one. I know where to get either, and they are both available to me, but I am still undecided.

Of course, given that this is a forum for Abuser owners, it may be a redundant questin to be asking these guys...

 

[OB_Kamikaze]

Nice book you wrote!
When I think of performance,Honda does not come to mind,BTW when I think about a cutting edge sportbike,I think among the lines of Ducati not a CBR900RR,PUHLEASE,I think you guys Should buy the XX,end of story.

 

[Guest]

Lol... Thanks! I had a lot to say on this matter.

Really? You think of a Duck as a cutting edge sportbike? Really? Ah, well... To each his own, I guess. I have a difficult time thinking of it that way, knowing that an F3, F4, CBR900, and a VFR are all quicker and faster than a Duck, and that isn't saying a whole lot. These are common bikes. The Duck's only strongpoint (besides it's obvious sex-pot looks and sound) is it's racing heritage. This translates into a rock-solid suspension. If the bike looked different and didn't come with a single sided swingarm, then it'd be a Laverda. Do you know what those are? Neither does anyone else.

"Cutting edge?" I use that term synonymously with "high tech," and "high tech definitely does not describe the Duck. Their chromoly steel frames are hand made, their ergos are terrible, and quality, fit, and finish are awful. All of this for twice the price of a "typical" Japanese bike. They are also slow as hell. While most bikes easily can top 11 second quarter mile times, Ducks are often around 12.5 seconds.

True, they look terrific, and their suspension is good enough to be called the best in the world. This translates to rider confindence and the ability to never slow down for a corner. Sure, traditional they are, and "tuned" they are after so much racer/factory combined effort. But "cutting edge?" Definitely not. With them, it's all about "old school" racing and factory participation. It's what you can typically expect from Italy. It's a wonderful thing in it's own, but "cutting edge?" Sorry.

I would have understood it more if you were talking about the R1... Tiny motor, big displacement, long swingarm, 5 valves, Exup, digital dash.... This is truly the most advanced bike of 1999. In fact, the R6 adds ram air. However, Yamaha is going to have to sell thousands more R1s and R6s to come close to being as popular and well known as the CBR, which is all I was saying. In fact, the CBR has often been criticized as being too common. How many times have you heard someone say, "everyone has one of those?"

There IS something I don't understand, though... After the Honda bashing you say I should get the XX? Doesn't make much sense...

 

[Guest]

I also recently took a long hard look at
the Blackbird before buying my Busa last
weekend. I don't think you could go wrong
with either one. The Honda may very well
be better built but the difference in HP
is MORE than 16HP. Check out the June 1999
issue of Cycle World for a direct comparison
between the Blackbird and the Busa. The Blackbird is listed at 133.2 HP at the
wheel which is consistant with what the
Blackbird owners are getting that frequent
the Blackbird mailing list I subscribed to
for a while. Cycleworld listed the Busa at
160.5 HP at the rear wheel which would indicate a difference if 27.3 HP. The 160.5
may be a little higher than the 155&156 some
Busa owners are seeing but even at 155 the
difference is still 22 HP. CycleWorld also
stated that the Busa just made the Blackbird
feel "slow" and with the Busa listing for
LESS than the Blackbird I felt the bang for
the buck was in Suzuki's corner. I still
like the Blackbird and probably would have
enjoyed owning one but I think I would
have regretted not going for the superior
power and handling of the Busa. I've got
almost 700 miles on my Busa now and have
had no major problems at all. I'm off for
another Sunday ride now! (second one today)

 

[Guest]

It was widely recognized that LAST years' XX was, on the conservative side, 139 RWHP. This years' XX has fuel injection and ram air. I fully expected to see performance numbers of 140 to 145 RWHP, but it seems as if the magazines didn't test the new 'Bird's RWHP. Instead, it looks like they simply posted the same numbers as last year. It just looks too suspicious to believe. There wasn't much fanfare around the fuel injection and ram air, and it's possible that they simply didn't realize the disservice...

However, I have not yet seen a published dyno chart that says a Busa has more than 155 RHWP. In fact, I believe that was the BEST one that I saw. I specifically remember 145 RWHP and a 153 RWHP. This RWHP of 160 may be unpublished, but if so then it's at the crank, which is where the 'Bird puts out 162 HP. I believe the claims of 175 HP at the crank for the 'Busa.

I have read Sportbike News, Motorcyclist, Sport Rider, and Cycle World. NONE of them said that either of the bikes felt "slow." Sport Rider said that the 'Busa was faster, but some of the testers still preferred the XX. Their performance numbers often are radically different and inconclusive. At beat they were very close.

So what are the real numbers? Well, it depends on who you believe. It's generally thought that the 'Busa is a LITTLE faster, particularly when accelerating over 100 mph. But is it worth the sacrafice of having to buy a suzuki over the fit, finish, and quality of a Honda? Hmmmmm....

FYI... Both bikes are stickered at $10,499. Period. Sure, you may be able to haggle, but they are both stickered at $10,499.

 

[Guest]

According to the Honda dealer I visited
in Oklahoma City AND two XX owner's I met
on the Blackbird mailing list the MSRP
for the 99XX is $10,999 but Honda has been
forced to deal heavily due to the Busa.
I found a dealer in Kansas who was willing
to go down to $9,700. The June 99' Cycleworld comparison refers to the 99 XX
and details the FI, revised linked braking,
ram air etc that are new features for
99' only. None of the articles I've read say the XX is slow - they say the BUSA makes the
Blackbird FEEL slow - especially after
back to back rides. Here are some quotes:
"this bike [Busa] takes just 2.6 seconds,
[0-60mph] and reaches 100mph in just 4.9
ticks.(seconds) The Honda [XX] launches just
as hard, taking the same amount of time to
reach 60mph, but it needs a HALF-second MORE
to reach 100. Another quote says: "With 161cc additional displacement(1298cc versus 1137cc), 27 more horsepower and 18 more foot-pounds of torque, the Hayabusa simply feels more powerful than the Blackbird everywhere.
[CycleWorld June 1999]

Another publication has this to say:
"The Hayabusa, in all honesty, makes the
XX feel slow." [MotorCyclist June 1999]

I've seen dynocharts from the web pages of
XX owners who were seeing HP in the low
140's with FULL aftermarket exhaust, air filter and rejetting. If you use a search engine you can find a lot of info from actual XX owners. You can also meet XX
owners by subscribing to their mailing list
if you want to find out more about XX's.
I subscribed for about a month in order
to research the pros and cons of owning
the XX while I tried to decide whether to
go with the Busa or the XX.

 

[OB_Bob]

Thanks for the comments, although I'm not sure that I have moved any closer to a final decision. I own a Bandit 1200 w/micron slip on and stg. 1 DynoJ. Decent bike, excellent wheelies!(But-not-abusa)
The XX Honda can be purchased for $9400. The Busa $10,499.00 no haggling or they will raise it higher.(Both prices are before tax, set-up, etc)
Let me ask this--Is there any Busa owner out there that is sorry to have plunked down $10 1/2 large ones?? (Or more)
Or, are there mechanical/electrcal issues with this bike that have not been posted? Sometimes the 1st year is a beta test learning experience. The XX has experienced some of this, and is now a better bike because of it.

 

[OB_VegasDude]

I could have bought any bike i wanted. I owned a 98 zx11 until the busa came out. XX honda never entered my mind. The busa is all i had on my mind until i bought it. Im glad i bought it and have had no problems at all. Its been a blast to drive. Acceleration is unbelieveable. Just found out it had a steering dampner....wow....i keep seeing little things that make the bike a great bike..................

 

[OB_gixerfreak]

Hey Bob,

You want to know my opinion on whether I'm sorry I dropped 10.5K for this thing?

 

[OB_Bob]

I just put $1000 down on a blk/grey Busa due in next Friday. But, I have a liking for the Blackbird also. The XX is more ergonomically friendly for me. I am 6' 4" and like the comfort. Linked brakes are keeping me away. I heard that the Busa can be uncomfortable after only 30 minutes of riding? decisions?? 200 mph though yee ha!!!!!!!!!! 9.86 seconds!!! yee ha!! sore arse, uh oh

 

[OB_boomer]

If you want an XX, I have one for sale. I like the XX too but this Hayabusa is a better bike. I'm 6'6" so I know about the comfort factor. I liked the linked brakes as I never got the rear wheel to lock up under heavy braking as I do with the Busa. Not a big factor, just got to get use to the change. I have 1600 miles on the XX if interested. Vance/Hines Carbon fiber slipons, LP windshield, and rear fender eliminator kit are the only changes. Nice bike but I like the Suzuki better.

I also just ordered a gell seat for the busa. The stock seat is already more comfortable than the XX but I want to see what the gell is like.

Let me know if interested on the XX!

boomer@midkan.net

 

[OB_gixerbike1]

cyberjoe, i have been reading some of your post's and i really have to set a few things straight.
1.)a buddy of mine has a busa that had 155.6 RWHP stock at 600 miles, it now has 161.2 with a pipe and remap.So,that equates to How much crank HP for the busa?

2.)I have seen two birds get dyno'd, a 1998 and a 1999, the 98 had 133, the 99 got 139, with slip ons and a k&n Filter, you tell me?

3.)I have helped my buddie remove and reinstall body panels for an oil change on his busa,The fit and finish is flawless,the body panels and everything else for that matter fit together perfectly.GEEEEE no sacrifice here.

4.)I know 5 guys with a busa that have varying mileage(over 800) and they have NO trans problems and NO "ticking" problems.

5.) Suzuki has a couple of nice V-twins that can run and handle pretty damn good ( forgot about those huh?)

6.) I rode my buddies busa and i'll tell you what, it's very fu_kin smooth,The handling is "spot on" and it's extremely stable in the corners, he's had it up to 195 in 5TH, didn't even bother with 6TH.There are only a few out of many with the 6th gear problem,and alot of them are from improper break-in(not all).

7.)FUEL INJECTION:If hondas fuel injection is so great, why didn't it go on the 900rr?

8.)Cutting edge technology, hmmmmmmm, the 900rr, hmmmm a buddy of mine has a 98,I have a 98 GSXR-750, i can smoke his ass, i have 128.6 RWHP, he has 118 RWHP, GEEEEEEE I guess Suzuki has a pretty damn good Fuel injection system...huh?

9.)Rubber mounts getting soft huh?Well geeee i guess the tires would be the next thing to go huh?It'd be a bitch to ride on the rims huh?

10.)If you going to buy a busa,shut the heck up,stop bashing it and buy it.That way if you want to bash it, you'll at least know what the hell your talking about.If not get the hell out, buy the blackbird and enjoy.
Just don't come in here halfass bashing a bike/manufacturer on issues that you have no experience with.If the bike appeals to you that much, then make the jump,don't try to justify why Honda is better and how much you like honda.You say your a honda man, then get the blackbird.I certainly don'y think you'll be unhappy....until a busa blows you away.

 

[OB_hiabuser]

cyberjoe, i am the one that gixerbike1 was referring to when he made his last post. first of all, i actually had 156.4 rwhp stock. have the dyno printout should you need it. secondly, while the blackbird is an exceptional bike and is unmatched in some small ways, as far as straight out (not read straight line) performance, the blackbird truly isn't up to the standards of the busa. as far as your hp numbers, don't know where your getting them from, but the busa and the blackbird have similar 0-60 mph times but the busa leaves the blackbird from there on out. and as far as the xx being able to keep up with the busa, sorry, can't be done. not stock anyway. i've already run up to big triple digit speeds agains zx-11's and xx's. neither have had a chance quite frankly. not busting or bashing either of these fantastic bikes, just pointing out facts. and as we all know, it takes no skill whatsoever to twist the throttle in a straight line. so no rider advantage here. and in case your interested in knowing, no, it was not even close. there was a second maybe two seconds where i could still see the xx in my perephial vision, after that, it was only visible in the mirror's and getting smaller relatively quicker. now, if this is not a priority of yours, and you plan on more touring than sportier riding, indeed get the black bird if that's really turning you on, but any busa out there, stock or piped, will definately hurt your feelings when it comes to both speed and handling. once again, not bashing it, just pointing out real world facts. motocyclist magazine on speedvision did a complete test on both a road course and at the drag strip, once again, they say while the xx is an incredible bike, back to back rides "makes the honda seem slow". the busa accelerated much quicker and continued to build speed well beyond anything the xx could hope to reach. facts. make your choice to suit your needs, not what everyone else likes. hell, something is gonna come along and beat the busa, until then, research a little more before you say that the xx can keep up with the busa in any aspect of performance. it can't. but if that's not important to you, then buy the xx. after all, when that busa goes blowing by you, you won't have a chance to see it for long anyway. he'll be gone before you can think, " i shoulda got that busa, i really shouda, but i only wanted to tour ride anyway so, sniff, sniff, it's alright".
have a nice day
mike
p.s. i now have the yosh 4-2-1 stainless system and fuel injection remapping done. it now has 161.3 rwhp. i recently saw a 98 xx with two brother's exhaust dyno'd on the same dyno that mine was done on and it only went 126.5 rwhp. he was more than a little upset, insisting that the dyno was off. then i ran mine. end of story.

 

[OB_VegasDude]

I owned a zx11, put 17000 trouble free miles on it. It was a comfortable ride as well. I now have 600 miles on my busa. It is more comfortable than my zx. I just got finished on quick 200 mile ride and felt great. Im only 6'0 though, you guys are taller. Had my 600 mile checkup and have had no probems with the bike. I love it ...................

 

[OB_VegasDude]

And by the way I was riding in 112 degree heat............god bless me.......and did not go over half way on heat gauge even in traffic.......................

 

[OB_hayabusa]

I have a dyno sheet from my stock Busa after 2000 miles making 164rwhp. On the same sheet is my '98 zx-9 with full Akrapovic System making 141rwhp.

Both done on same dyno. If anyone wants to see it, I can mail it to you.

 

[Guest]

Okay... Where do I start?

Todd: I am fully aware of the XX online boards... I, too, subscribe to them. In all honesty, I am seeing you tend to see things in a Hayabusa light. (Positively for the Bus and negatively for the XX.) I expected that. After all, this is a 'Busa board. You seem to have forgotten all of the things that the magazines said that were negative toward the 'Bus and positive toward the XX. Nobody ever said that the Bus wasn't faster. I simply am pointing out that the differences were much closer than you would like to admit, and the XX had some positive things over the 'Busa.

Bob: Yes, there is a ton of people who have been sorry that they purchased the 'Busa... Check out some of the other threads, including the "Suzuki #0" and "Bike is Satan spawn..." Again, not saying that you won't find people sorry that they bought the XX either, 'cause you will. But things are not as perfect as they seem.

Gixerbike1: Oh, boy...
1.) Great! Send me the dyno chart. Email is joe@cyberjosie.com

2.) Great! Send me the dyno chart (can you tell that I don't believe you?)

3.) Obviously you have never changed the oil on a Honda. Not saying that the 'Busa isn't terrific... It's like the 'Busa is great, and the XX is phoenominal!

4.) Cool, but you might want to read the thread on it... I see a dozen that do.

5.) I didn't forget about those... Like I said, "nothing notable." The S model was reputed to be a tankslapper (Suzuki got sued it was so bad) and the R model, while really cool looking, was hated by the press. What's with that rear end? Looks like you were the only one that remembered that.

6.) Perhaps you are right... Still a concern, though. Never heard of it before now.

7.) It didn't go on the 900 because it was just designed... For the XX and VFR. The last redo of the 900 was before the new injection was available. It's reputed to be even better than the $12,000 fuel injection system on the RC45.

8.) Smoke his ass? Well, perhaps your skills are better than his, because a 900 is more powerful than a GSXR750. The GSXR will probably outhandle the 900, though, because it's lighter. (Know what? I was never the one to use the term, "cutting edge sportbike" first... All I said was that it was the best selling and most known...)

9.) There is a huge difference between the rubber mounts on the handlebars and footpegs and the rubber on the tires. The tires also have an inner structure that the other rubber does not have. Obviously you have never experienced this, but I am telling you that the bike gets weird in extreme temps. Besides, yes, tires do handle differently in cold and hot extremes too! Whty do burnouts at dragstrips? Why heat up the tires at the track before racing? Of course there is a difference!

10.) I am not bashing the Busa. I already told you that I like it a tremendous amount and that I was considering buying one. (Geez, aren't we touchy? Taking this a little personally? Look back on my previous posts... There are things I love about both...)


Hiabuser: You said: "it takes no skill whatsoever to twist the throttle in a straight line." WHAT? Are you kidding? Of course it does! Why do some guys consistently turn lower times at the dragstrip than others? Sure, it takes no CORNERING skill, but if that is what you are after, you bought the wrong bike. You said: "research a little more before you say that the xx can keep up with the busa in any aspect of performance" Lol... You have no idea! I am not lacking here.
Oh... One more thing... 126 RWHP? Oh, for cryin' out loud... Maybe running on three cylinders! If what you say is true, then there was something REALLY wrong with his bike...

 

[Guest]

OK, I have to throw in my 2 cents. I have a 96 ZX11 with the usuall mild mods (pipe, jet kit, advancer, air filter, gearing). About a year ago I raced a non FI XX. We had to shut down about mid 5th gear due to road conditions. I had him by at least 2 bike legenths and I don't think he would have cought me if we continued. Just last weekend I raced a "Busa". His front wheel was with my rear wheel thru 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. 4th gear he caught up and 5th gear he was pulling away when we had to shut down. I'm sure he would have continued to pull and probably beat me by several bike legenths. My hats off to Suzuki and the "Busa". You have one fine machine there. Moral of the story, unless you have a Busa, don't underestimate the ZX11. And even if you have a Busa, the ZX11 dinasour still kicks. As for the XX, your #3.

 

[Guest]

Hey, Bob... One more thing...

Your original post ( I reread it just now) said that linked brakes were keeping you away from the XX...

1. Most riders like the linked brakes. The newest system is the same one that was praised so highly on the latest VFR. Supposed to be the hot setup, and most XX owners report liking them quite a bit.

2. If you REALLY hate them, they can be removed and replaced by a standard system. It costs less than $100 to do, but will take a little time. Oh... It also removes nearly two pounds of valves and piping...

 

[Guest]

Okay, okay, okay... I am beginning to make a decision that this board probably isn't going to like... 'Course, if I look at all of my own previous posts, it looks like I may have felt that way all along. Hmmmm... But I really love that monster 'Busa...

Whether you can like both or not, ya gotta read this story I found... Even if you like the 'Busa better, this story makes you proud to be a motorcyclist... This is what it's all about, guys...

Go check it out... http://www.best.com/~citybike/content/bike_rev/benn297.html