APE high volume oil pump gear probelm

It seems to me that if you increase the psi the oil pressure relief valve opens at, that is increasing the amount of oil in the engine while it runs and decreasing the amount of oil in the oil pan. The high volume pump is already reducing the amount of oil in the pan because it sucks more oil up.

So my guess is NO, a high psi oil pressure relief valve won't add available oil to the oi pan, it does the opposite. Same with the gear. Doing both would increase the chance of oil starvation.

That's just conjecture on my part. I've only had stock oilling on stock bikes so far .
 
Mythos said:
It seems to me that if you increase the psi the oil pressure relief valve opens at, that is increasing the amount of oil in the engine while it runs and decreasing the amount of oil in the oil pan. The high volume pump is already reducing the amount of oil in the pan because it sucks more oil up.

So my guess is NO, a high psi oil pressure relief valve won't add available oil to the oi pan, it does the opposite. Same with the gear. Doing both would increase the chance of oil starvation.

That's just conjecture on my part. I've only had stock oilling on stock bikes so far .
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I am just trying to figure out what cause that bearing failure before I start rebuilding again my engine
 
Aly Kabil said:
I am just trying to figure out what cause that bearing failure before I start rebuilding again my engine
Click to expand...
I would want to know the cause of the bearing failure before spending the time and money to rebuild too.

It's possible the oil pressure switch is malfunctioning and might not have come on.

Even so, stock oil pressure switches aren't of much value except for as as engine startup precaution. Oil pressure switches don't light up unless the oil pressure is extremely low, like 9 psi. The stock oil preesure warning light would probably not have given you enough warning to shut the motor down before damage occurred. An aftermarket oil pressure gauge with warning light would be a good mod if you don't already have that. I've installed one and I can guide you in that if necessary.

I would say the rod bearing damage happened from lack of lubrication but it might not have been lack of oil pressure. Maybe you have some obstructions in your oil passages? I do not know how to check or fix that but I'm sure there are ways.
 
Mythos said:
I would want to know the cause of the bearing failure before spending the time and money to rebuild too.

It's possible the oil pressure switch is malfunctioning and might not have come on.

Even so, stock oil pressure switches aren't of much value except for as as engine startup precaution. Oil pressure switches don't light up unless the oil pressure is extremely low, like 9 psi. The stock oil preesure warning light would probably not have given you enough warning to shut the motor down before damage occurred. An aftermarket oil pressure gauge with warning light would be a good mod if you don't already have that. I've installed one and I can guide you in that if necessary.

I would say the rod bearing damage happened from lack of lubrication but it might not have been lack of oil pressure. Maybe you have some obstructions in your oil passages? I do not know how to check or fix that but I'm sure there are ways.
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For sure I will appreciate your help to guide me, but at the same time isn’t it strange that the engine is running without any problems for 3 years as a stock engine after rebuilding it and putting hell of passes and street driving on it, and then about 4 months on turbo stage 1 without any problems also till I just changed the gear and after 20 min the bearing was destroyed???!!!
 
Aly Kabil said:
For sure I will appreciate your help to guide me, but at the same time isn’t it strange that the engine is running without any problems for 3 years as a stock engine after rebuilding it and putting hell of passes and street driving on it, and then about 4 months on turbo stage 1 without any problems also till I just changed the gear and after 20 min the bearing was destroyed???!!!
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That is strange. It seems like using the aftermarket gear must be related somehow. For the rebuild, I would go back to the stock gear and figure out some way to test the oil level at maximum rpm.

As you mentioned earlier, maybe you need to increase the amount of oil to keep an adequate supply in the oil pan when the motor is running. Maybe both the turbo and engine had adequate lubrication with the recommended amount of oil but then adding the high volume gear increased the demand at the oil pickup to the point that the recommended amount of oil was not sufficient.

I'm not sure how you would safely check the oil level in the pan with the motor running. Some kind of scope so you could see that the oil pickup was submerged even at peak rpm? You could use an oil pressure gauge to tell you if oil was getting pumped at peak rpm but that wouldn't give you any advanced warning if the pan ran dry. The oil pressure gauge would go to a maximum of about 80 psi. After that, if the oil in the pan ran lower than the pickup, the oil pressure would suddenly drop to zero. All you could do is pull the clutch lever and wait for the oil level to come back up high enough for the pickup to start circulating oil again. At 11,000 rpm, your bearings might burn out again if they were without lubrication. I don't know how long they could last at that rpm without lubrication, maybe only one second.
 
I have heard of shimming stock oil pressure relief valves. That would be a way of increasing oil pressure in steps if you can figure out some way to check that the amount of oil in the pan is sufficient. If you want to change the thickness of the shim in the relief valve to achieve higher or lower oil pressure You could do that to avoid running the oil pan dry at peak rpm.

Of course, I'm going on the assumption that the oil pan running dry is what caused your rod bearing failure. The bearing failure might have been caused by something else.
 
Mythos said:
I have heard of shimming stock oil pressure relief valves. That would be a way of increasing oil pressure in steps if you can figure out some way to check that the amount of oil in the pan is sufficient. If you want to change the thickness of the shim in the relief valve to achieve higher or lower oil pressure You could do that to avoid running the oil pan dry at peak rpm.

Of course, I'm going on the assumption that the oil pan running dry is what caused your rod bearing failure. The bearing failure might have been caused by something else.
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What about running 5 liters of oil?
 
Aly Kabil said:
What about running 5 liters of oil?
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That seems like a huge amount of oil. I think the cold check level would be above the site glass. I guess you would need to insert some kind of dipstick to check the oil. I believe you would get oil up in the air box if you had too much oil.

I would leave open the possibility that the bearing failure might have been caused by something other than the amount of oil in the bike. It's an awful lot of money down the drain if you use more oil and it blows up again.

Somebody must have a setup just like yours. If their rod bearings aren't getting fried, and yours did, the amount of oil isn't the issue. You'd be chasing a red herring, as they say.
 
long long ago (2003)
I built my first 1397 on my bike
intake cam on exhaust side also

Great for two months on the street
Spun a rod bearing first time at the track
new crank and rods
three passes down the 1/4 spun a rod bearing WTF?!?!?!
third crank same deal 3-4 1/4 passes and knock knock

Brought the motor to HMP
he line honed the cases did "his oiling mods" resized my rods
SHIMMED my pressure relief valve
and I added a windage tray
Never had a problem since
since then I swapped for Carillos

Are you sure the pickup is not TOO close to the bottom of the pan?
 
bigoltool said:
Are Accusumps a thing anymore in this context?
Click to expand...
bigoltool said:
Are Accusumps a thing anymore in this context?
Click to expand...
bigoltool said:
Are Accusumps a thing anymore in this context?
Click to expand...

2151D5F1-7F36-4777-8FB9-C3C342D5721A.jpeg


4D7676DE-B4B9-4E50-8C16-19C10AEE14F4.jpeg
 
I thought about one before
mounting more crap on my bike bla
also it will only provide pressure for a couple seconds


I would put a visible oil pressure gauge so I could keep a eye on the pressure
maybe even buy a transducer and log it but a gauge for sure
 
Aly Kabil said:
I am just trying to figure out what cause that bearing failure before I start rebuilding again my engine
Click to expand...
I talked to Dan at mps yesterday, really about my trapped door 2" pan. Directions say eyeglass is obsolete, use 5.5 - 6 quarts oil. The answer is.... Oil pressure drops at shutdown. But I did ask him about the oil pump gear because I have been wondering myself. He said the gear is really for idle. anything under 2,000 RPM. After that the pressure relief is what matters. Also said he had mixed feelings about it but using both wouldn't hurt.
 
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