Another reason to love Cali

I do believe its time for us to end this futile "war on drugs" Without getting too much into the politics of it I was thinking of posting this before and it should fit well into this discussion.

best of craigslist : RE: Confiscated Marijuana overvalued

RE: Confiscated Marijuana overvalued
Date: 2008-12-31, 10:15AM PST


Sort of.

Cannabis intended for recreational consumption comes in several different grades ranging in price from $10 a pound for compressed bricks of seedy Mexican hemp flowers purchased near the source up to $3,500 a pound for manicured colas grown indoors by farmers who produce small crops. That same $3,500 pound can be sold to consumers for up to $25 a gram, meaning that pound's street value if sold by the gram is in the neighborhood of $11,000.

But, the case in point is the series of raids this summer, which authorities claimed netted 138 pounds of cannabis from 340,000 plants. Since they raided in August, the plants they took were immature, not yet having set their flowering tops or colas, the portion of the plant used as a drug, and at least half would have been male plants that produce nothing. Had those plants, which represent less than 10 percent of the county's entire crop, survived to maturity they would have yielded somewhere in the neighborhood of three-quarters to one pound per plant or about 150,000 total pounds of low- to mid-grade cannabis which would have been valued at something like $500 to $1,000 a pound depending on how far east it was sold and in what quantities for an estimated net sale price of conservatively $75,000,000. Factor in the percentage of undetected crops and we see the county's illicit outdoor cannabis crop can conservatively be valued at $750 million in initial sales. End-user sales and indoor gardens would raise this number considerably, and it would not be unreasonable to place a value of Tulare County's current cannabis industry at $1 billion, all of it untaxed.

Let me isolate that statement for effect: Tulare County is currently home to a $1,000,000,000 unregulated, untaxed industry that our elected officials are actively and ineffectually attempting to eradicate at the taxpayers' expense, thus depriving the county and state of at least $80,000,000 in annual sales-tax revenues while they charge us for the privilege.

Think about that when you read we cannot afford to fund rural health clinics or that our schools are in need of repair or that we can't afford rural fire stations or if you live along or must drive ill-maintained county roads or if you're one of the thousands of unemployed or are affected by that unemployment or if you or one of your family members is considered an outlaw because they use cannabis or if you think it's wrong to destroy Yokohl Valley in the hopes of generating a tenth the revenue cannabis could provide the moment it is legalized.

We are starving to death and considering cannibalism while surrounded by delectable fruits hanging from the vine and ripe for the picking. That's genuine Reefer Madness.
 
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Keep on trying to find ways to pay for the overspending and dirty politicians Arnold!
 
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Why not , our society is eroding in a steady fashion anyway. IMHO the cost to society would far out weigh the benefit of the taxes. Just like all tax dollars the politicians would piss it away. I doubt you would see better roads, free clinics, or improvements in education. Mom and Dad are doing a sorry job to start with and sitting around the house fugged up wouldn't improve that either.
 
hey why not cocaine pulled the U.S. out of a bad economy in the 80's & california loves the icky sticky:laugh:

if this goes through I recomend buying stock in hostees,fruit roll ups,pizza & peanut butter....just a thought
 
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hey why not cocaine pulled the U.S. out of a bad economy in the 80's & california loves the icky sticky:laugh:

if this goes through I recomend buying stock in hostees,fruit roll ups,pizza & peanut butter....just a thought

He said fruit roll ups :laugh:
 
DO3, you're a police officer correct?

I'd be interested in your thoughts on this situation.

Let's say, for arguments sake, marijuana is no longer illegal. Therefore, when someone is committing the various crimes they normally would to get money for the drugs, you can no longer use possession as a method of arrest. (Usually there isn't enough evidence to support conviction of the initial crime, but the drug one is ever present right?)

Currently, petty crime, vandalism, burglary, personal theft, are all up to support these habits.

But... and here is my thought, what if these crimes no longer need to be committed to keep them in their habit. What if its sold over the counter, as alcohol is (not too many people make moonshine anymore, as you can buy liquor on every corner) therefore reducing its high COST and possibly eliminating these small crimes because they are no longer necessary.

Keep in mind, marijuana would STILL be illegal for kids, just as alcohol and cigarettes are now. (If kids get it, its still arrestable, and also still an issue of parenting)

Do you think, looking at this hypothetical situation in its entirety, your job as an officer would become more or less challenging/ busy?

Do you think these crimes would actually decrease, given the lower cost, and easier legal availability of the substance?

Discuss :bowdown:
 
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Why not , our society is eroding in a steady fashion anyway. IMHO the cost to society would far out weigh the benefit of the taxes. Just like all tax dollars the politicians would piss it away. I doubt you would see better roads, free clinics, or improvements in education. Mom and Dad are doing a sorry job to start with and sitting around the house fugged up wouldn't improve that either.


D03,

You mention the cost to society? What do you mean when you say that? How is marajuana worse than alcohol (alcohol being more addictive)?

Additionally there area many many industrial uses for hemp that are not able to be exploited because it is illegal to grow marajuana.

I have seen no medical information stating the marajuana is addictive therefore the notion that individuals commit crime to support marajuana usage is unfounded.

As long as it is illegal the law should be obeyed but I really don't understand the reason we devote so many resources to something so minor.
 
D03,

Just to make it clear to everyone; I'm not the spokesperson for law enforcement. I'm not in narcotics but do get involved with enforcement of these laws from time to time.

You mention the cost to society? What do you mean when you say that? How is marajuana worse than alcohol (alcohol being more addictive)?

Marijuana and alcohol are both drugs. There's plenty of people that drink moderately, but then there's many more that don't and commit crimes against others; assault, domestic battery, vehicular homicide, etc. It is lawful to buy alcohol with many exceptions. There are numerous laws that cover crimes involving the use of alcohol. Then you have the minor problem of alcoholism; a very destructive disease. Not only does it impact the user, but it also has an impact on family and friends, as well as strangers.

Additionally there area many many industrial uses for hemp that are not able to be exploited because it is illegal to grow marajuana. Are we truly suffering because we can't grow hemp and use it ? You've said it yourself, we can't now, so what's the big thing we're missing out on ? Getting fugged up.

I have seen no medical information stating the marajuana is addictive therefore the notion that individuals commit crime to support marajuana usage is unfounded. Wrong again. You have physical and mental dependence on a variety of things. I'm sure there's lots of people that just can't do without it on a daily basis. Being addicted or not doesn't cause crime. Illegal Drugs, that includes legal drugs obtained unlawfully and abused cause crime for the simple fact that a large number of those involved with drugs commit crimes to support their habit.

As long as it is illegal the law should be obeyed but I really don't understand the reason we devote so many resources to something so minor.

It's not that minor in all cases. Someone wealthy that stays at home doesn't have a huge impact on society as long as they're not losing opportunities to do the things they should be doing for their families. But in other cases, people lose everything and people lose time with their spouses and children that could be spent doing other things that are much more positive than a simple escape from reality that ends eventually.
 
DO3, you're a police officer correct?

I'd be interested in your thoughts on this situation.

Let's say, for arguments sake, marijuana is no longer illegal. Therefore, when someone is committing the various crimes they normally would to get money for the drugs, you can no longer use possession as a method of arrest. (Usually there isn't enough evidence to support conviction of the initial crime, but the drug one is ever present right?)

Currently, petty crime, vandalism, burglary, personal theft, are all up to support these habits.

But... and here is my thought, what if these crimes no longer need to be committed to keep them in their habit. What if its sold over the counter, as alcohol is (not too many people make moonshine anymore, as you can buy liquor on every corner) therefore reducing its high COST and possibly eliminating these small crimes because they are no longer necessary.

The only crime that would disappear would be the crime of producing and distributing. Just because it's legal wouldn't solve the need for money to buy it.

Keep in mind, marijuana would STILL be illegal for kids, just as alcohol and cigarettes are now. (If kids get it, its still arrestable, and also still an issue of parenting)

Do you think, looking at this hypothetical situation in its entirety, your job as an officer would become more or less challenging/ busy?

Obviously if you make marijuana lawful I wouldn't be enforcing those laws and it would reduce that part of my work load.

Do you think these crimes would actually decrease, given the lower cost, and easier legal availability of the substance? No, the same people would be committing the same crimes to support their use.

Discuss :bowdown:
...
 
Cool, thanks for your response.

I guess my question is more of, do people believe a result (consequence, effect, benefit etc.) of legalization is that it takes away the black market for it?

Lets say someone's drug habit costs 100 X and there income is only 10 X or even 1 X, well they obviously must feed their habit somehow, and in current society, they resort to stealing, burglary, and other crimes (that D03 and other officers are forced to deal with and 'clean up', while still being professional, which is one thing strung out/messed up people are NOT)

I'm trying to "predict" the future if these drugs were legal, now that they no longer cost 100 X, they cost 10 X or maybe even 1 X, that these users would no longer have the NEED to commit these crimes.
 
In my opinion, legalization will do very little for the economy of California. Weed is just that. A weed. it will grow anywhere. To attempt to tax it would be a joke. No one would go to the store to buy weed. You would grow it at home. I doubt there would be a significant drop in crimes associated with drug use for the reasons previously stated. Not to mention the rest of the country would come down heavily on Ca for the drug trafficking this would cause due to everyone coming to Ca and transporting a pound back home.

No one brews liquor in their basement (a small population make beer) because it is too troublesome and messy. But weed is a whole different story. Also, how much money and time would go into regulating the sale and taxation. There is an alcohol beverage control board to monitor the sale and distribution of alcohol.
 
Mexican Drug Dealers Busted - CBS News Video

I honestly think crime would go way down. Everything DO3 stated could also be applied to alcohol and you don't see gangs killing people and crime to support alcohol, There may be some very few alcoholics that have committed crime to support their habits but not to the levels we are seeing with marajuana. But you did have that during prohibition with alcohol. With the legalization you would eliminate the supply and demand factors that lead to the violence.

Given the ease of growing marajuana the impact of taxation would probably not be to the level that it makes an impact, but the decrease in the violence surrounding the drug trade I think would make it worthwhile.
 
The war on drugs just is not working. The drugs will still get into the country via corrupt enforcement. Happens all the time.
They should legalize all drugs. You need to take the "Novelty" out of the picture.
Especially with cocaine. If you could go into a pharmacy and buy a trashbag of coke for 5 bucks, you are not even gunna want to bother consuming it all.
You need to make it worthless. :whistle:

JMHO
 
Crack down on the Mexican drug cartel and any monies confiscated should go straight into the states coffers. Any marijuana confiscated make it legal for sale and tax the hell out of that. Make it illegal to grow it or distribute it without proper business license from the state. Of course there will still be those that wont follow the law. Oh wait It is pretty much illegal to light up in the state of Cali anyway. So there goes that idea. Cigs are bad so blunts are too. :whistle:
 
I think people would start growing it at home also. Whay buy it if you can grow it cheaper.It might slow down on some violence, but how about theft now your going to get someone comming into your house cas you grew some good pot, before you know it your plants are gone. While there in there they may see your dimond ring hmmm. Now the tax on the pot if you can buy seeds like garden vegies how much money they be making on that. Then the stuff you don't grow (you buy from the store) do you really think the cost off that isn't going to go down alot, the money that they say people make off selling pot if legal it would probably be one third, the more people selling something in a store the more competitave you have to be there for cheaper prices. What they don't show is all the jobs and money that the eligal drugs bring in. The cort house, the police, the drug divisions, the fines. Then the kids that will think it is ok to smoke pot. That will make like coke the gateway drug or something. I don't have kids but I know when I was younger I thought like ten times before I smoked pot. Ya it's not that big of a drug but I feel let the kids think that it is bad, so they don't want to touch anouther drug. If they do try smoking pot hopfully they feel realy guilty about it, I know if I have a kid I don't want pot legal. I grew up thinking alcahole isn't bad (it's legal) Nothing is that bad if your responsable, not to many people responsable, I've even drove after haveing to much to drink and I'm not talking wasted eather I felt fine and could drive with no problems but by law if I would have been pulled over probably had one or two to many beers. I say NO Keep it Elegal.:rulez:
 
The war on drugs just is not working. The drugs will still get into the country via corrupt enforcement. Happens all the time.
They should legalize all drugs. You need to take the "Novelty" out of the picture.
Especially with cocaine. If you could go into a pharmacy and buy a trashbag of coke for 5 bucks, you are not even gunna want to bother consuming it all.
You need to make it worthless. :whistle:

JMHO

Agreed 100% For those with existing drug problems, the "laws" are irrelevant, they have addiction problems and the LAW will never change how they are addicted.

Additionally, if you legalized coke right now, or meth or heroin etc. does that mean that the right minded people of the .Org are going to run out and get loaded, just because its legal? I know I wouldn't. I think its a false argument to say the REASON more people don't do drugs is BECAUSE they're illegal. I don't smoke cigarettes because I CHOSE not to (they're LEGAL too) because my education has taught me the potential long term consequences of abusing my body. Same with alcohol, again LEGAL, but something I vary rarely imbibe.

I can tell you a drug addiction I DO suffer from is Caffeine. I can't think of a day in recent history that I haven't had it in some form or other (coffee, soda, energy drink). After (some other .Org members gave me some advice/ educational reading) I learned that caffeine can have a severe connection to mood and health disorders I have cut WAY back and can honestly say I feel like a different person.


I think people would start growing it at home also. Whay buy it if you can grow it cheaper.It might slow down on some violence, but how about theft now your going to get someone comming into your house cas you grew some good pot, before you know it your plants are gone. While there in there they may see your dimond ring hmmm. Now the tax on the pot if you can buy seeds like garden vegies how much money they be making on that. Then the stuff you don't grow (you buy from the store) do you really think the cost off that isn't going to go down alot, the money that they say people make off selling pot if legal it would probably be one third, the more people selling something in a store the more competitave you have to be there for cheaper prices. What they don't show is all the jobs and money that the eligal drugs bring in. The cort house, the police, the drug divisions, the fines. Then the kids that will think it is ok to smoke pot. That will make like coke the gateway drug or something. I don't have kids but I know when I was younger I thought like ten times before I smoked pot. Ya it's not that big of a drug but I feel let the kids think that it is bad, so they don't want to touch anouther drug. If they do try smoking pot hopfully they feel realy guilty about it, I know if I have a kid I don't want pot legal. I grew up thinking alcahole isn't bad (it's legal) Nothing is that bad if your responsable, not to many people responsable, I've even drove after haveing to much to drink and I'm not talking wasted eather I felt fine and could drive with no problems but by law if I would have been pulled over probably had one or two to many beers. I say NO Keep it Elegal.:rulez:

I can see you stance and respect your thoughts.

I think you're arguing a point from "current reality" with the new "reality"

It simply wouldn't make sense for someone to break into another person's house because they "grow good weed" in the "new reality" because it is devalued.

You could grow it yourself, buy it at the store, get it at a friend's house etc.

It would be like someone currently breaking into your house because you've got the good tomatoes or herb garden growing in your yard. Just doesn't make sense, because those items are available for sale on the open market.

You make my point when you talk about "if everyone grows pot then the price would drop by 1/3" Yes exactly, it would become cheap AND that money that we're currently giving to other countries and our own criminal black market would no longer exist.

I couldn't follow your point of drug crimes bringing in money in court costs, and providing jobs? If drug crimes failed to be crimes I can assure you that both police officers AND court officials would still have other crimes and criminals to keep them busy. And these "fines" that people pay for their drug offenses are FAR FAR outweighed by the money the criminal enterprises gain through drugs to fund more illicit activities.

If we no longer wasted so many of our law enforcement resources on a failed drug war we could spend those resources on other, more productive ventures, like EDUCATION on the realities of drugs and education in general.

Drugs right now are glamorous to kids, they hear about celebrities and all the cool "highs" they can get from trying drugs.

If they were taught something besides "just say no" such as WHY say no. I mean, show them the "faces of meth" slides, the strung out heroin people that are walking skeletons. Give them REAL facts about drugs. The myth that weed and heroin (both SCHEDULE ONE drugs) are equally bad (remember just say no) does a horrible disservice to our youth.

Finally, anyone that argues that "drugs would be more accessible to kids if they were legal" needs to think about where the drugs are now? In the schools. The kids ALREADY have the drugs, what needs to change to stop addiction is the WANT of them.

I don't argue kids should have drugs, in the same way they shouldn't have cigarettes or alcohol. I am advocating that they get PARENTING and a REAL education.

If meth were legal today, would anyone jump out of bed and go FINALLY, I've always wanted a meth addiction. No. If you take away the shame of addiction, people are more likely to seek help.

Okay, so that's my novel :whistle:
 
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