But at least you say that before you post your suggestion and I admire that. Others just diarrhea all over the keyboard without thinking.
Tired of Turbo Bike Leaving me stranded :(
- Thread starter nychayabusa
- Start date
But at least you say that before you post your suggestion and I admire that. Others just diarrhea all over the keyboard without thinking.
Murderedout07 said:
lol welcome to the internet
2wicked
Registered
How much cooling do you think an oil cooler does in traffic without a fan drawing air across it?
Richard
Busashot
Registered
I live in New Mexico and we have temps in the 100s a lot of the summer. But mostly 90s all summer long. I have never overheated on a stock Busa but the fan does come on often when in stop and go traffic. Yes the heat coming out of the plastics sucks and overheats my brain. 
IMHO, all the common fixes mentioned should be done whether you have a problem or not. Insurance. When you do have an issue, troubleshooting it will be that much easier. This also comes back to the old adage. Pay me now or pay me later.
IMHO, all the common fixes mentioned should be done whether you have a problem or not. Insurance. When you do have an issue, troubleshooting it will be that much easier. This also comes back to the old adage. Pay me now or pay me later.
nychayabusa
Registered
Dropped the bike off with Frank today. Seems very interested in getting to the root cause instead of just throwing a band aid on it. I like his approach and hopefully we will have some good news soon 
lease:
lease:
arthur39
Registered
Dropped the bike off with Frank today. Seems very interested in getting to the root cause instead of just throwing a band aid on it. I like his approach and hopefully we will have some good news soon
+1 on sending it to Frank, Keep us posted on what was the cause and the solution.
The Big Red One
Registered
I added a second fan to my 14 when I boosted it for peace of mind, besides that the cooling systems bone stock. It runs cooler now with the turbo and second fan than it did stock. But I didn't have to pull the oil cooler, and I'm not having head gasket issues, which it sounds like the op is possibly having. My stock motored gen1 busa has NO issues whatsoever with cooling under any conditions. But when I change coolant I make SURE the system is completely air free....same on my 14 which never has heating issues either.
Honestly my bikes handle heat just as well as our cars......never need to even worry about it, I just ride them
Whats a temp gauge again?
The Big Red One
Registered
Prolly just as much as the old air cooled bikes that relied on engine finning to keep them cool with no radiators at all. You don't need a fan to create a cooling effect, just having the liquid dispersed through a radiators tubing and finning while removing it from the engine will reduce its temps a bunch. My 92 gsxr-1100 is air-cooled with a big oil cooling radiator the size of a water-cooled bikes radiator...and it has no fan. I wonder why suzuki did that?
If you guys think that removing an oil cooler that suzuki designed as an integral part of the busa's cooling system has zero effect on the bikes running, you're not thinking things through all the way
2wicked
Registered
Prolly just as much as the old air cooled bikes that relied on engine finning to keep them cool with no radiators at all. You don't need a fan to create a cooling effect, just having the liquid dispersed through a radiators tubing and finning while removing it from the engine will reduce its temps a bunch. My 92 gsxr-1100 is air-cooled with a big oil cooling radiator the size of a water-cooled bikes radiator...and it has no fan. I wonder why suzuki did that?
If you guys think that removing an oil cooler that suzuki designed as an integral part of the busa's cooling system has zero effect on the bikes running, you're not thinking things through all the way
Your first word in your reply sums it up, why not try some testing and log some engine temps and oil temps with and without an oil cooler, then you will have some real world data instead of just guessing. One thing you are right about is that you do not need a fan to create a cooling effect, but you do need air flow, so if a bike or car is not moving, you do need a fan.:learn:
Richard
Richard, you know there has and always will be, folks spewing info with out proven testing..
Big Red. Funny you ask about the cooler. Real World Testing now, we tested the cooler theory. In traffic with or without it there is only 2-5 degrees of tempature with out it..
Big Red. Funny you ask about the cooler. Real World Testing now, we tested the cooler theory. In traffic with or without it there is only 2-5 degrees of tempature with out it..
The Big Red One
Registered
Daniel is that water temp or oil temp? If I ever boosted my busa I would definately do something to compensate for the loss of the oil cooler. Hotter oil breaks down quicker and doesn't protect as well...hence oil cooling. I never said the loss of the oil cooler alone would cause overheating, just that I supected suzuki put it on for a reason, and removing it plus adding a turbo and 100+hp would affect the running to some degree.
I respect Richard immensly and don't doubt you guys both can get a turbo busa to run fine without the oil cooler, but I do suspect its going to have an effect on the bike. Thats why I mentioned I wouldn't want to run without it. But on my 14 I can run a turbo AND keep my water-cooled oil cooler.......me likey
Daniel is that water temp or oil temp? If I ever boosted my busa I would definately do something to compensate for the loss of the oil cooler. Hotter oil breaks down quicker and doesn't protect as well...hence oil cooling. I never said the loss of the oil cooler alone would cause overheating, just that I supected suzuki put it on for a reason, and removing it plus adding a turbo and 100+hp would affect the running to some degree.
I respect Richard immensly and don't doubt you guys both can get a turbo busa to run fine without the oil cooler, but I do suspect its going to have an effect on the bike. Thats why I mentioned I wouldn't want to run without it. But on my 14 I can run a turbo AND keep my water-cooled oil cooler.......me likey
OIL Temp
The Big Red One
Registered
Richard, like I said in a post above, I respect you immensly, and would bring a bike to you or Daniel first to have it turbocharged
, and I'm in no way trying to disrespect you, but before 1984 and kawi's water cooled GPZ900, pretty much every bike ever made was air-cooled, and ran fine in rush hour traffic and highway cruising.......without needing a fan OR moving air when sitting still in that rush hour traffic. BMW boxer twins and Harleys, among others, STILL run with only air-cooling and engine finning/oil coolers and can sit in rush hour traffic or cruise just like a modern water-cooled sportbike, and last just as long :learn:Water cooling is way better of course........but you don't have to have a fan or moving air to keep an engine running.......it just helps. My 92 gixxer 1100 air-cooled with its engine fins and big ole oil cooler with no fan gets ran in the same conditions as my water-cooled bikes, and performs admirably whether stuck in traffic or moving down the road
Like I said, of course water cooling is better, but I had to respond to the :learn:
emoticon you threw in there, not sure that was really necessary?
The Big Red One
Registered
Thanks Daniel, thats excellent info that everybody who ever considers pulling the oil cooler off there busa, to install a turbo, would prolly appreciate knowing
I know I do nychayabusa
Registered
Believe it or not Frank has other bikes to work on! 
hah. First thing I told him is to take his time as I am no rush and would rather everyone to work slow so nothing is missed. I know small gremlins like this can be such a nightmare to find. With that being said Frank was able to make some time to ride it and look everything over. He can put the details up here but everything checks out OK. Leak down, compression came out fine. He did ride it around and even said how beautifully the bike rides (which I agree) but saw the needle start to creep up when he let it idle. One last thing he is going to look at is the water pump. If the water pump checks out ok, which odds say it should we will have to make some decisions on next steps. He said we should knwo about the water pump today or tomorrow.
Seems like the next steps would be either a tear down or just throwing the second fan on with manual switch and see what happens.
I want to thank Frank for all he has done thus far.
hah. First thing I told him is to take his time as I am no rush and would rather everyone to work slow so nothing is missed. I know small gremlins like this can be such a nightmare to find. With that being said Frank was able to make some time to ride it and look everything over. He can put the details up here but everything checks out OK. Leak down, compression came out fine. He did ride it around and even said how beautifully the bike rides (which I agree) but saw the needle start to creep up when he let it idle. One last thing he is going to look at is the water pump. If the water pump checks out ok, which odds say it should we will have to make some decisions on next steps. He said we should knwo about the water pump today or tomorrow.Seems like the next steps would be either a tear down or just throwing the second fan on with manual switch and see what happens.
I want to thank Frank for all he has done thus far.
2wicked
Registered
Richard, like I said in a post above, I respect you immensly, and would bring a bike to you or Daniel first to have it turbocharged
Water cooling is way better of course........but you don't have to have a fan or moving air to keep an engine running.......it just helps. My 92 gixxer 1100 air-cooled with its engine fins and big ole oil cooler with no fan gets ran in the same conditions as my water-cooled bikes, and performs admirably whether stuck in traffic or moving down the road
Like I said, of course water cooling is better, but I had to respond to the :learn:
emoticon you threw in there, not sure that was really necessary?
The fins on an air cooled engines cylinders is an entirely different approach to cooling, each fin on an air cooled engine will show a different temperature over its length, and they do not require a fan due to the spacing between, and the taper of the fin. A radiator on the other hand, if sitting static, will measure the same temperature all the way through, and all across its surface, and will continue to get hotter and hotter unless a fan turns on to pull air through it. You are trying to compare apples to hand grenades, if you are so certain that water cooled bikes (radiators) can still cool as effectively as fins on an air cooled motor without a fan, take the fan off your liquid cooled bike and car/truck, start is up and let it idle for 20-30 mins, or go for a drive down town in stop and go traffic then let me know how long till it pukes coolant all over the road and you have a steaming vehicle pulled to the side of the road. If you still do not believe there is a difference between air cooled engines and water cooled engines, and the need for a fan, then yes, the :learn: smiley was necessary. I am not trying to insult you or put you down in any way, but it is also not fair to others reading this thread and getting incorrect information.
Also seeing as you brought up harleys, I have seen many of them pulled off of to the side of the road on real hot days in heavy traffic overheated, one trip I was on back in 93 when I attended Harleys 90th, there were lots of them pulled off to the side of the road, along side the Ryan expressway, outside of Chicago shut down due to over heating
Richard
Audiomaker
Registered
You do not need air flow or a fan to radiate heat, just surface area and a temperature difference. The air flow improves heat transfer by moving the already heated air away from the surface area and replacing it with fresh cooler air. Cold air transfers heat faster than hot air because it is harder to get heated molecules moving even faster as opposed to cooler molecules that excite more easily.
Keep in mind that in physics, you don't really "cool" anything, you "unheat it", or more properly transfer heat away from it. You don't transfer cold per say.
This is how electric (or hot water boiler type) radiators heat buildings. There is no fan, but they do transfer heat to the air. The same is true of any surface to surface or surface to substance area.
The fans only improve the efficiency, and in the case of some engine combinations, maybe not by enough...and you'll overheat.
Of course it is possible with a smaller surface area and no air movement, that the air itself at the surface will reach unacceptable temp's. This is again due to lack of surface area because if you had enough surface area you could keep any engine cool without fans using the cooler atmosphere as the "transferee" of heat.
Bottom line, if you feel warmth when you move you hand close to it, it is transferring heat away from it, so even an oil cooler with no fan or moving air is transferring heat away from the oil due to it's large surface area (fins)...just not as efficiently.
Why did I post that? I do not know.
All the Best
Sean
Keep in mind that in physics, you don't really "cool" anything, you "unheat it", or more properly transfer heat away from it. You don't transfer cold per say.
This is how electric (or hot water boiler type) radiators heat buildings. There is no fan, but they do transfer heat to the air. The same is true of any surface to surface or surface to substance area.
The fans only improve the efficiency, and in the case of some engine combinations, maybe not by enough...and you'll overheat.
Of course it is possible with a smaller surface area and no air movement, that the air itself at the surface will reach unacceptable temp's. This is again due to lack of surface area because if you had enough surface area you could keep any engine cool without fans using the cooler atmosphere as the "transferee" of heat.
Bottom line, if you feel warmth when you move you hand close to it, it is transferring heat away from it, so even an oil cooler with no fan or moving air is transferring heat away from the oil due to it's large surface area (fins)...just not as efficiently.
Why did I post that? I do not know.
All the Best
Sean
