Some Gen II Advice? Frank??

[Craash]

I've just replaced my 2009 Busa with a 2011 (1800 miles in the last month). Anyway, I've just came accross a good deal on a RCC Stage One complete. I'm trying to decide on if I should run it on the stock engine at 4 PSI, or go ahead and spring for the RCC spacer, springs and changing the titanium valves out for stainless valves. The bike won't be streched, nor will it have a fat tire installed. My questions are:

1. Since I want to install the turbo myself, I suspect the plate, springs, valves should all be done first by my shop? What type of cost should I expect for labor on this?
2. Any idea what type of HP increase we are looking at with the engine mods listed vs. the 230 or so on the stock engine and 4 psi?
3. I'm planning on going with a full pipe (I love the steath look, and twistie roads with an occassional track day), what does the Tial 50 mm BOV add to either of my senarios.
4. What else am I missing?

Smithers will be doing my Tune, via ECU.

Thanks for any and all input!

 

[NINJA KILLER]

I would say one way or another you could touch base with Steve and tap his brain for some input on all your questions. That man KNOWS his stuff when it comes to Busa's either Stock or Turbo . They treat a customers bike like it's their own. He is very reasonable on Labor and Tuning costs. He might even be able to save you a little money .

 

[Craash]

Already sent him and email, just wanted to see what the thoughts were on the board, too.

 

[PaLVBusa]

Im not an expert by anymeans but My guess would be ur looking at prob 2-3k for the engine work if its done right. But the experts will be chimming in soon enough. Good luck and we expect pics at some point

 

[NINJA KILLER]

Already sent him and email, just wanted to see what the thoughts were on the board, too.

Have you talked to him over the phone or in person yet ?

 

[Craash]

Not yet. Figured I'd call him tomorrow.

2-3K to install valves, springs, and a spacer?? Sounds way high to me.

 

[POWERHOUSE]

I've just replaced my 2009 Busa with a 2011 (1800 miles in the last month). Anyway, I've just came accross a good deal on a RCC Stage One complete. I'm trying to decide on if I should run it on the stock engine at 4 PSI, or go ahead and spring for the RCC spacer, springs and changing the titanium valves out for stainless valves. The bike won't be streched, nor will it have a fat tire installed. My questions are:

1. Since I want to install the turbo myself, I suspect the plate, springs, valves should all be done first by my shop? What type of cost should I expect for labor on this?
2. Any idea what type of HP increase we are looking at with the engine mods listed vs. the 230 or so on the stock engine and 4 psi?
3. I'm planning on going with a full pipe (I love the steath look, and twistie roads with an occassional track day), what does the Tial 50 mm BOV add to either of my senarios.
4. What else am I missing?

Smithers will be doing my Tune, via ECU.

Thanks for any and all input!

Labor to R&R the top end, install a spacer plate and studs (don't forget the studs!) should be around $600 and to go into the head and do the valve springs and some stainless valves should be approximately another $150. These numbers will vary from shop to shop, but should be close. If you install the turbo on a stock motor with the 4 pound spring, you will be looking at about 220-230 rear wheel on a stock tire. If you go with the spacer plate, you will be able to run 7-8 pounds of boost on pump, which will net you around 250-260 . . . keep in mind you are knocking the compression down. You will also be able to turn the boost up with this setup, either by tuning with race fuel, or sticking to pump fuel and adding a water injection system. RCC has a great new water injection setup that is not only progressive, but is fully tuneable and costs less than an Aquamist system. The new full pipe from RCC will not hurt the rear wheel horsepower at all, and in fact, will increase the torque a bit across the board. The blow off valve (BOV), will prevent backpressure in the plenum when the turbo is spinning and the throttle is partially closed - like when you shift. A BOV will allow the turbo to keep spinning and keep the boost up between gears - it will also prevent backpressure that might occur without it from damaging anything when the throttle is completely shut - like at the end of a blast or 1/4 mile run. Doing the BOV is the most popular option- one that I recommend on every turbo. There are a few other things to consider: when you do the spacer plate, you will need adjustable cam sprockets so you can degree the cams properly; also, the high output oil pump gear is a must, as it not only increases oil pressure everywhere, but it also spins the water pump faster, which helps to keep things cool. Don't forget the clutch springs, and don't forget to gap your plugs (stock are fine) to .018-020". APE Pro Mod studs are good, ARP studs are better . . .and since you are taking the top end off anyway, why don't you forget the spacer plate and adjustable cam sprockets, and go with Wossner turbo pistons? No spacer plate is necessary, and the cams will drop right on on the stock marks . . .

 

[crawler]

Pull and replace engine 4-500 typical.
Headwork labor 200
Pull cylinder and add spacer labor 100-250

Plus parts
Headgasket
Two base gaskets
Valves
Valvesprings
Base spacer
Adjustable cam gear(to adjust for new height added by spacer)

Something to consider: If you go turbo pistons instead of spacer; you spend more on the pistons but you don't buy a spacer, a cam gear, or extra base gasket. It does cost more to go pistons. But the lack of other parts does close some of that gap.

 

[crawler]

Frank beat me to it.

 

[Craash]

Your the man, Frank. What's the net difference price between the Wossner and the plate/cam sprockets?

Any downside to sticking with the stock internals, and 220 horse or so? (Besides the obvious)

 

[POWERHOUSE]

Your the man, Frank. What's the net difference price between the Wossner and the plate/cam sprockets?

Any downside to sticking with the stock internals, and 220 horse or so? (Besides the obvious)

POWERHOUSE sells Wossner pistons for $550/set, shipped. The .080" spacer plate is $65, the adjustable cam sprockets are $149, and you still need to get them pressed and welded (if you're smart) to the stock cams, which is about $60 to do. And you would still have to pay someone to degree the cams, which adds about $150 to the mix if you are already getting the top end done at the same time.

The only downside to sticking with the stock internals is the fact that you will "only" have 220+ at the rear wheel, and you will not be able to turn it up, even with race gas. But even with that said, you should keep in mind that there are plenty of Stage One turbos out there that are going mile after mile after mile - a Stage One turbo is a great bike to ride everywhere. It is also the least complicated and simplest setup to have. I should also mention that having a Stage One turbo will make most people eventually want more, so the temptation to go back into the motor so you can turn the boost up will eventually creep into your thoughts. Like good drugs, you will probably want more at some point!

 

[Craash]

So, it seems like pistons would be the way to go . . .

So my shopping list would include

1. The stage 1
2. BOV
3. Pistons
4. Full Pipe.
5. Oil Pump Gear

Once I talk to Steve Smithers again tomorrow, can I order that stuff from you (except the Stage 1)?

Just out of curosity, what type of labor would one be looking at to install the Stage 1, instead of DIY? Might make sense if they are going to have the bike apart anyway.

 

[POWERHOUSE]

So, it seems like pistons would be the way to go . . .

So my shopping list would include

1. The stage 1
2. BOV
3. Pistons
4. Full Pipe.
5. Oil Pump Gear

Once I talk to Steve Smithers again tomorrow, can I order that stuff from you (except the Stage 1)?

Just out of curosity, what type of labor would one be looking at to install the Stage 1, instead of DIY? Might make sense if they are going to have the bike apart anyway.

You can order all of the above from POWERHOUSE if you like, and yes, we are still running a sale on RCC turbo kits. The BOV should be ordered when the kit is ordered, since a flange needs to be welded onto the plenum and I am sure you would like it to look nice and be all polished. As far as the install is concerned, you probably should ask Steve what he charges, as opposed to asking what POWERHOUSE charges. There are different definitions of "installation" . . . POWERHOUSE has been building and tuning turbo bikes since 1978, and we have our own way of doing things in regard to the install. There are things over and above the kit instructions that we do so that the installation of the kit is neat, professional and proper; and a few other mods we do for cooling and such. Our years of experience dictate how our installs are done . . .

 

[Craash]

So if I'm buying a used kit, which didn't have the BOV, what options do I have to add one?

 

[cdhoroho]

Frank is good at turbo's all around

craash dont forget the valves and springs and such you left off the list

also be sure to let them know when ordering the kit that its a gen2 stage 1 as they will get a 1:1 reg (if tuning from ecu) as they will be boost fueled vs the gen1 are only an FMU

 

[POWERHOUSE]

So if I'm buying a used kit, which didn't have the BOV, what options do I have to add one?

That's an easy one - order the BOV with an aluminum flange, and I will also send you a good picture of where it should be installed. Have your welder cut a hole in your plenum and weld the flange on. You can then polish the welded flange and you are done . . .

 

[POWERHOUSE]

Frank is good at turbo's all around

craash dont forget the valves and springs and such you left off the list

also be sure to let them know when ordering the kit that its a gen2 stage 1 as they will get a 1:1 reg (if tuning from ecu) as they will be boost fueled vs the gen1 are only an FMU

Pinky, he is getting a used kit - something I forgot when I was replying. Even if the kit has an FMU, he obviously can substitute a 1:1 and go with the ECU editor like he wants to . . .

 

[cdhoroho]

oops sorry
just had knee surgery so drugged up and not paying attention myself with that
yes can substitute and not expensive of a swap (fmu to 1:1)