Pc5 and TRE

[Jakegsxr11]

I just bought a 09 with a PC5. I'm going to have it dyno tuned and the tuner said he would use the PC5. Is a TRE of any use to me? Why or why not should I get one? Or do I just need him to flash the ecu as well as the PC5? I've done some searching but cannot seem to find these answers. What else should I be telling the tuner? Thanks

 

[sixpack577]

No tre(timing retard eliminator).
An ecu flash will do a better job of what the tre is doing, only without gremlins.
The flash does other useful things too.
The a/f can be tuned with PC, no problem there.

 

[Jakegsxr11]

Ok so I need the ecu flashed for some things and the PC5 flashed for others. I think I found a thread explaining that this morning. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[HayaWakened]

Like others have said here, keep the PC if you're gonna play with bike settings on a regular, else the e-flash is one-n-done

 

[sixpack577]

Ok so I need the ecu flashed for some things and the PC5 flashed for others. I think I found a thread explaining that this morning. Thanks for the clarification.

Yes and no
The ecu is "flashed"/has factory settings changed, fans on early, more timing at lower rpms(like a tre without side effects), secondary throttle plates opening at a more efficient rate, fuel soft cut off/rpmi limit up around 600rpm, fuel hardcut becomes new limiter, using all already available fuel in all cells(not the a/f ratio), etc.
For the PC, some have ignition adjustment, some people Autotune, but in general, it just allows the A/F to be tuned correctly throughout the rev range, and most tuners agree that it is quicker to tune A/F with a PC than through the ecu, but some tuners do either, and pros and cons to both.
Either is fine.
If the tuner cannot flash the ecu, get that done along with a dynotune.

 

[Jakegsxr11]

The tuner said he can tune with the ecu or pc, he said the pc was easier and would save time on the dyno (pay per hour). I would like the pc to be tuned and stay and have him adjust the following in the ecu:

*Busa smart TRE activated and top speed limiter removed.
*Fans on/off sooner, usually 10 degrees.
*Stp's(secondary throttle plates)set to use all fuel already available(not the air/fuel).
*Stp's set to fastest efficiant opening rate.
*Fuel soft cut(conservative rev limiter)turned off, redline automatically goes up 600 rpms.
*PAIR valve can be turned off.

Does this make sense?

 

[Hayabusa Wannabe]

The tuner said he can tune with the ecu or pc, he said the pc was easier and would save time on the dyno (pay per hour). I would like the pc to be tuned and stay and have him adjust the following in the ecu:

...

Does this make sense?

Yes.

One thing to consider: There are many failed Power Commanders out there. Vehicle ECUs are extremely robust, handling heat, cold, and vibration extremely well. Occasionally on these forums people post with problems and the solution turns out to be disconnecting the PC. So tuning an ECU can avoid this one particular problem in the future. The way I see it, it is the ability to check AFR anytime you want with the AutoTune versus the risk of hardware that may be a bit subpar.

 

[sixpack577]

+1
Tune through the ecu and eliminate the need for a PC, and a future PC failure.
The money saved on the PC should more than offset the cost of more dyno time.

 

[Jakegsxr11]

The bike already had the pc so no money saved there

 

[Jakegsxr11]

One more question, can I just buy the flashing tools and find a good bin file and be done with the whole thing? I cannot find bin files anywhere. I plan to have a full hindle evolution and a bmc filter, otherwise stock. I don't really need that last 1% if that's all the dyno will get me....

 

[HayaWakened]

+1
Tune through the ecu and eliminate the need for a PC, and a future PC failure.
The money saved on the PC should more than offset the cost of more dyno time.

+1

One more question, can I just buy the flashing tools and find a good bin file and be done with the whole thing? I cannot find bin files anywhere. I plan to have a full hindle evolution and a bmc filter, otherwise stock. I don't really need that last 1% if that's all the dyno will get me....

You could do that ... but ECUs are expensive if you muck it up

 

[sixpack577]

I have been saying for a weeks that I need to drop my laptop off at a friend's store, as I'm locked out of it.
I've been too busy during business hours.
But, once I do I will be flashing gen2 and Bking ecus in person or by mail again, and several gsxr's in person.
I have flashed over 3 dozen to date without issues.
I know this doesn't help anyone now, but I will soon enough.
I'll make myself a note now to get someone to drop it off for me.
I'll post a new thread when I'm back up and running again.

 

[Jakegsxr11]

Well, now the tuner doesn't want to flash the ecu and use the power commander for fuel. He will only do one or the other. He recommends the ecu tune. I would prefer the ecu tune also for the items listed above that can be changed and better rpm fueling resolution. he uses woolich and locks the ecu. I know why this is done but I'm not sure I want a locked ecu and to have to go back to him for any changes.

 

[JeffSyh]

Get it ecu flashed and use your pc5 for fueling needs I recommend a wideband also worth the money if you are nitrous/turbo, I have TRE but it's only used for gear position indicator only seems sketchy.

 

[Jakegsxr11]

That's what I'm thinking now. If I could find a basic tune for a hindle /brocks and a bmc filter for the pc 5 I can probably just forget about the dyno tuning. I don't want to deal with the woolich

 

[JeffSyh]

That's what I'm thinking now. If I could find a basic tune for a hindle /brocks and a bmc filter for the pc 5 I can probably just forget about the dyno tuning. I don't want to deal with the woolich

I'm going to take a stab at ecu tuning my self this winter but from the research I've done it sounds easier to tune fuel with pc5 and a auto tune then a ecu editor. Ecu editors do it all now but you either need to know what your doing or pay someone everytime to tune it which will get costly with each mod, I know boosted by Smith has nice data logger for a good price which would point a person in the right direction for AFR tuning with ecu editor he also has great manuals and videos. But I'd get an ecu flash from a reputable person if you are worried about ruining something (speed limit remove, timing, bump up max rpms 500 etc) the wealth of knowledge of people on here that know tuning, I'm sure someone will ecu tune for you for good cost/safely.

 

[sixpack577]

That's what I'm thinking now. If I could find a basic tune for a hindle /brocks and a bmc filter for the pc 5 I can probably just forget about the dyno tuning. I don't want to deal with the woolich

Just have your ecu flashed by mail.
Doesn't Brocks sell PC base maps?
His are good, and very common, you should be able to download one somewhere.
Done.
No more hassle.
If you choose to have it dyno'd and tuned through the PC or ecu in future, no problem.
Otherwise, you'll have a good running bolt-on bike.

 

[sixpack577]

Well, now the tuner doesn't want to flash the ecu and use the power commander for fuel. He will only do one or the other. He recommends the ecu tune. I would prefer the ecu tune also for the items listed above that can be changed and better rpm fueling resolution. he uses woolich and locks the ecu. I know why this is done but I'm not sure I want a locked ecu and to have to go back to him for any changes.

It's really a once and done thing anyway.
Unless you make mechanical changes, the tune will be fine(assuming it was done right to start with).

 

[mjl3truck]

The tuner said he can tune with the ecu or pc, he said the pc was easier and would save time on the dyno (pay per hour). I would like the pc to be tuned and stay and have him adjust the following in the ecu:

*Busa smart TRE activated and top speed limiter removed.
*Fans on/off sooner, usually 10 degrees.
*Stp's(secondary throttle plates)set to use all fuel already available(not the air/fuel).
*Stp's set to fastest efficiant opening rate.
*Fuel soft cut(conservative rev limiter)turned off, redline automatically goes up 600 rpms.
*PAIR valve can be turned off.

Does this make sense?

I'd leave the 2nd throttle plates alone unless you have a ton of money for dyno time to realize what is probably a small gain if any. Back when ECU Editor came out a guy by the name of Petrik, who developed it, did lots of testing. He said the factory setting on the plates at 94% made the most power, any more open than that he stated it lost power probably due to turbulence in the TB If you chose to pay with them let us know the results I'd be curious.

 

[Jakegsxr11]

I know it will likely be a one and done. I just don't think I like the idea of having an ecu locked to a tuner an hour away. If I ever need to get back into it there will be a one time $150 unlock fee, and I'll have to pay the tuner to change what I need done. Then if I move away what do I do? I can already see adding a quick shifter in the future and I'd prefer to do that in the ecu.