Our State Support ~ Red Flag Law *

[Mr Brown]

Oh so they don't come take just your guns? They also get your Hayabusas? Okay got it now.

You can be a smartass if you like, you can play the victim if you like, the fact remains that the laws target those who are mentally ill, not those who own guns. If you can't see that distinction there is really no reason to continue discussion. Not everyone needs legal access to weapns. Period.

 

[08BusaKY]

I don't like the new laws where anyone that doesn't like you can say you're a threat and send someone to take your guns! Now if you have a history of mental problems or domestic abuse that's another story...

 

[bussassin417]

Not every situation is the same. Though every situation should be handle with care, respect and concern for all.

It is always important to know as much as possible about every situation. Here is crucial information concerning this situation:

"Police had come to the house Sunday night to speak with Willis, a longtime resident of the neighborhood, said Michele Willis, who was on the scene Monday morning and identified herself as his niece. She attributed that (Sunday night) visit by police to “family being family” but declined to elaborate.

She said one of her aunts requested the protective order to temporarily remove Willis’ guns."

info from The Baltimore Sun, click here.

If I were to contact authorities with concerns about the safety of my family; one of its members, I have the first responsibility to show care, respect and concern for all involved. My initial action can and should set the tone for every following action.

I'm not responsible for others actions. I am responsible to be honest and sincere when my actions affect others, families and communities.

 

[Dougyp333]

When we limits someones rights, any of their rights, without a full and impartial hearing we undermine due process. A long and well documented history of mental illness may be a reason to remove someones guns but these laws can and are used as a weapon by vindictive, angry spouses/relatives etc.

 

[bussassin417]

these laws can and are used as a weapon by vindictive, angry spouses/relatives etc.

Any law or any power can be abused. Where the law or power be inherent, inalienable or given.

I am responsible to be honest and sincere when my actions affect others, families and communities.

 

[piratediverjefff]

I'd say it's time to move the hell out of Maryland.

 

[RedBull]

I would say it is time
to move the hell out
of Maryland .

 

[Mr Brown]

When we limits someones rights, any of their rights, without a full and impartial hearing we undermine due process. A long and well documented history of mental illness may be a reason to remove someones guns but these laws can and are used as a weapon by vindictive, angry spouses/relatives etc.

I agree, but due process of an individual is weighed against the safety of others.
I don't think it may be a reason, I think any documented . mental illess should be grounds for rescinding that right.
Saying a law is invalid because it might be abused is a non starter. Imagine what society looks like if you apply that logic across the board....

 

[piratediverjefff]

View attachment 1588079

Might be time to move the hell out of California also.

Have been kickin' around the idea of picking up a new rifle to play around with,looking at both the Ruger RPR and Savage Stealth/Ashburyin .308.

 

[Dougyp333]

I agree, but due process of an individual is weighed against the safety of others.
I don't think it may be a reason, I think any documented . mental illess should be grounds for rescinding that right.
Saying a law is invalid because it might be abused is a non starter. Imagine what society looks like if you apply that logic across the board....

I agree, my problem with red flag laws is that the accused is not a part of the hearing and has no way to defend themselves. It is almost always a closed door hearing with only one side being presented. Imagine if we conducted murder trials the same way. I think our opinions on the subject is more a matter of disagreeing about procedure than intent.

 

[bussassin417]

My family and I live in a open carry state, it's one of the reasons we moved here. If a member of my family or I put someone or the community at great risk, I would welcome help.

The red flag law doesn't infringe on ownership rights or due process. Based on a situation, concern and safety for others; a judge issues a order to remove a weapon(s).

In extreme cases, local or state officers make immediate decisions; based on a situation. The same officers who make the decision of using deadly force; based on a situation.

When "red flag" weapons are taken away, the owner does have a hearing. It determines whether the order to remove their weapons was/is valid; and/or the terms or conditions for the weapon(s) to be returned. That's ownership rights and due process.

We all have rights, not because of what county or state we live in. Because we are human. We should have responsibility for each other. Together we live and thrive.

Would it be better if the red flag law name was changed to the "see something, say something law ?" For me, the name doesn't matter. People, families and communities matter.

I have non lethal weapons to protect my family and myself in our home. They do stop a threat. Our lethal weapons are for protecting our rights and liberties against injustice/tyranny by state or government. (we don't hunt)

For those of us in the US and other countries, it's legal to own lethal protection. I ask those how do, what is you were born in a country that didn't ? Wouldn't your quality of life matter more than a right to own a lethal weapon ?

There are many who face immediate harm and death; for many different reasons. Some have little, if any hope of surviving.

To have the ability/opportunity to post on this thread; many people from all over this planet have worked, fought and died. Many without a weapon.

All of us; with or without a lethal weapons, be respectful and responsible to each other. Together we move forward.

Together we stand, divided we fall.

 

[Bumblebee]

Something has to be done, the statistics are staggering on how many people die from gun violence in both our countries.

Bad people can get guns whether good people have them or not but there seems to be a lot of guns out there to be had.

 

[Mr Brown]

I agree, my problem with red flag laws is that the accused is not a part of the hearing and has no way to defend themselves. It is almost always a closed door hearing with only one side being presented. Imagine if we conducted murder trials the same way. I think our opinions on the subject is more a matter of disagreeing about procedure than intent.

I'm not even sure we disagree on procedure, I am not comfortable with an accused having no way to advocate for themselves.

 

[Mr Brown]

My family and I live in a open carry state, it's one of the reasons we moved here. If a member of my family or I put someone or the community at great risk, I would welcome help.

The red flag law doesn't infringe on ownership rights or due process. Based on a situation, concern and safety for others; a judge issues a order to remove a weapon(s).

In extreme cases, local or state officers make immediate decisions; based on a situation. The same officers who make the decision of using deadly force; based on a situation.

When "red flag" weapons are taken away, the owner does have a hearing. It determines whether the order to remove their weapons was/is valid; and/or the terms or conditions for the weapon(s) to be returned. That's ownership rights and due process.

We all have rights, not because of what county or state we live in. Because we are human. We should have responsibility for each other. Together we live and thrive.

Would it be better if the red flag law name was changed to the "see something, say something law ?" For me, the name doesn't matter. People, families and communities matter.

I have non lethal weapons to protect my family and myself in our home. They do stop a threat. Our lethal weapons are for protecting our rights and liberties against injustice/tyranny by state or government. (we don't hunt)

For those of us in the US and other countries, it's legal to own lethal protection. I ask those how do, what is you were born in a country that didn't ? Wouldn't your quality of life matter more than a right to own a lethal weapon ?

There are many who face immediate harm and death; for many different reasons. Some have little, if any hope of surviving.

To have the ability/opportunity to post on this thread; many people from all over this planet have worked, fought and died. Many without a weapon.

All of us; with or without a lethal weapons, be respectful and responsible to each other. Together we move forward.

Together we stand, divided we fall.

Well said sir.

 

[Bailey9r]

You can be a smartass if you like, you can play the victim if you like, the fact remains that the laws target those who are mentally ill, not those who own guns. If you can't see that distinction there is really no reason to continue discussion. Not everyone needs legal access to weapns. Period.

OKay lets review...
The red flag law is for mental issues with owners of
A) Hayabusas B) Boats C)guns
Oh I've lost you already. We have many laws covering mental issues like the Baker Act etc. How does A third party with possible ulterior motives have the power to have your house raided by a swat team pass the smell test with the Constitution?
If you think your uncle is a danger to himself or others Baker Act him instead of sending a hit squad after him.

 

[Bailey9r]

I don't know the answer to that.
The application restrictions are woefully inadequate, clearly. If a few people who are not mentally ill have to do without their guns temporarily so that events such as what we have seen in the past few weeks are avoided I'm good with that, and so should everyone else.

The reason I don't like this stuff (not with you) is the whole no fly list thing. Again no redress just "someone for some unknown reason put YOU on the no fly list and now it's tied to the gun thing. I can see this being used for political advantage by some.

 

[RedBull]

Something has to be done,
the statistics are staggering
on how many people die
from gun violence in both our countries.

Bad people can get guns
whether good people have them or not
but there seems to be a lot of guns out there to be had .

 

[Mr Brown]

OKay lets review...
How does A third party with possible ulterior motives have the power to have your house raided by a swat team pass the smell test with the Constitution?

The Constitution doesn't guarantee a hearing, a trial or anything. What it does give you is the right to due process before deprivation of rights. We as a society accept that due process is sometimes conducted in an instant, by a person who is trained to assess and eliminate a potential threat, like in the case of a police officer who has to kill a suspect. Which, sadly, is what happened here.
Laws should be designed to make things safer and easier for everyone. Not a flawless system, but clearly what we have now is failing abysmally.

 

[Mr Brown]

The reason I don't like this stuff (not with you) is the whole no fly list thing. Again no redress just "someone for some unknown reason put YOU on the no fly list and now it's tied to the gun thing. I can see this being used for political advantage by some.

Agreed, it could be used (and probably is) for nefarious purposes.

 

[RedBull]

Agreed,
it could be used
( and probably is )
for nefarious purposes .