Nitrous VS Turbo


Kinda pointing this one at NE, or anyone who can help.

I would like to know some of the advantages/disadvantages of Nitro and those of turbos. I have been thinking for quite a while of which to go with but still not at a definite decision. I have been leaning more towards a 20-40 shot of nitrous on a stock busa. I like being able to turn it off is one thing, it also produces alot less heat than a turbo would. Easier to install, etc. For the moment im kinda set on Nitrous, i guess.
Dry is a good place to start. Start with a 26 hit then go to a 40. You may find that is all you want. i would pipe the bike and PC the bike. Get it up to about 171hp and then do the hit. The Pros and cons

NOS is great you just need to keep filling up
Turbo is extreme always there but needs to be monitored.
Don't be fooled with Nos not being as much trouble. If not set correct you can blow your motor. Start small. make sure you have set correct.
Both are great. If you have the $$$$ Go with a turbo. But get a good one. I going nos just because of $$$. Nos is the poor man's turbo.


would a 40 shot get me to 200mph?

I like nos because it because its not always there, im just not ready(experience wise) to handle that much power all the time. But indy has quite a few places like the IRP to drag race on. I just wanna go over 200 hehe.

Busa has 16/41 gearing but im probly going to change that sometime, but will it get there(200mph) with that?

Plenty of good systems out there.  I was very happy with the Schnitz set up.  Bro you will not hit 200mph with that gearing Nos or no NOS. You will hit your rev liniter way before 200 mph

16/41 will get you to 185mph on gps
17/41 will get you to 194mph on GPS
18/41 will get you to 206mph on GPS
18/40 = 211mph on GPS

Boost and NOS will get you there quicker or it will take all day and 10 miles to hit 211mph with under 220hp
Or you can go with 20/38 = 247mph on GPS, but you better have at least 350hp and a lot of room.

Zoom Zoom

hey Ninja do you know anywhere i can get alot of info about nitrous on a busa?

Greg on has a nitrous setup about exactly like i want to do and his cost aourn $360 would you happen to know which kit that is?
If you want more than 60 HP go with a wet system or the A&J set up. I would go with a wet kit just so you won't have to mess with remapping every time you run nos.

I dont really want to go with a wet system because of the engine mods and such, I just want a little more power. Enough to get over 200. I am looking for a EMS with the 3 map selection. Its probly going to be long while before i would use the NOS. The busa is only my second bike and im not picking it up till june. My experience is not up to par, so im going to been moveing pretty slow for a few months. But i still want to put some nos on for poser points i guess lol. My friends told me i was crasy for wanting something that fast anyway, since they wont drive anything without a cage.
hey Ninja do you know anywhere i can get alot of info about nitrous on a busa?

Greg on has a nitrous setup about exactly like i want to do and his cost aourn $360 would you happen to know which kit that is?
Call my friends in Florida. TDC Performance. They run all sorts of Nitros systems, they may be able to direct you.

Here is an article that i had on the subject.

--Nitrous-Naughty and Nice--
Nitrous oxide can double the horsepower of most engines with less effort and money being spent than any other modification. Even the "smog people" are usually happy.

A nitrous engine can be built as a stock rebuild or it can be a dedicated effort to maximize the total performance package. As more power is generated, more waste heat, exhaust air flow and combustion pressures push the limits of engine strength. Often more beef is needed in the drive train and tires.

All stock factory engines are built with a safety factor when it comes to RPM, HP produced, cylinder pressure, engine cooling, etc. If you are only going to use a 100 HP nitrous setup on a 300 cubic inch or larger engine, built in factory safety factors are probably sufficient. As power output levels are raised engine modifications are usually prudent.

The most common mistake made when using nitrous oxide injection concerns ignition timing. A normally aspirated engine makes its best power when peak cylinder pressures occur between 14 and 18 degrees after TDC. KB Pistons usually require 34 degrees BTDC ignition timing at full mechanical advance to achieve proper ATDC peak cylinder pressure. The total time from spark flash to the point of peak pressure is typically 48 to 52 degrees. If an engine is producing 30% of its power from nitrous, the maximum cylinder pressure will occur too close to TDC to avoid run away detonation. If ignition does not get retarded, good-bye horsepower and head gaskets. The key to getting max HP from a max nitrous engine is to shift the maximum cylinder pressure event progressively further after TDC.

Cylinder pressure of 1000 PSI at TDC, (FIG.1) , can drop to 500 PSI with less than 3/8" of piston travel, (FIG. 2). If you can manage to get 1000 PSI in the same engine after the 3/8" travel, (FIG.3) , the pistons will have to travel an additional 3/4" to lower the cylinder pressure to 500PSI, (FIG.4). Work is defined as a force times distance. An average pressure, (750 PSI X 12-1/2 sq. in.), times distance in feet, (3/8"divided by12), equals 293 foot pounds of work. Our second example, because it has twice the chamber volume above the piston location, must move twice as far to lower the cylinder pressure by 1/2. Since all the other numbers, by our own definition are the same, the force multiplied by a distance twice that of the first example will equal twice the work done, 586 foot pounds of work. There is no free lunch in horsepower equations because to get 1000 PSI above the piston in the second example takes twice as much fuel and energy as the 1000 PSI in the first example. What this offsetting of the peak pressure does is allow us to use the extra fuel mix available to a nitrous engine without breaking and melting things. The system that allows us to postpone maximum cylinder pressure is ignition timing retard. To a lessor extent short rod ratios, lower compression ratios, high RPM, aluminum heads, a tight quench, a rich fuel mixture, a small carburetor and hotter cams tend to delay maximum cylinder pressure.

Understand that, in our quest to delay cylinder pressure’s peak time, more is not necessarily better. Instead, consider that the ideal cylinder pressure would be just short of detonation pressure and this pressure would be maintained from top dead center, and as long as possible after TDC. If timing is really late, you won’t build enough cylinder pressure to start the car, let alone drive it. The 1000 PSI pressure in the example is not the maximum allowable combustion pressure but, rather, a comfortable pressure for illustration of the work principle.

Some nitrous manufacturers recommend, "retard the timing two degrees for each fifty horse power of nitrous". Other nitrous kits have the flame speed artificially slowed by the intentional use of a rich fuel to nitrous ratio. The maximum performance engine with a heavy nitrous load must achieve peak cylinder pressure progressively further after TDC. The heavy load engine will have the fuel and oxygen mix to make high cylinder pressures, with the combustion chamber size being drastically increased due to the piston being on its way toward bottom dead center. The strongest engines have less compression ratio, less spark advance, and more nitrous.

I have tried to explain the reason for a spark retard system in a Nitrous engine. However, many people just don’t like the idea of any retard. They say, "retard timing and exhaust heat goes up". It usually does in a stock nonnitrous engine because lower peak cylinder pressure slows the burning. If the timing is retarded in a non-nitrous engine, the exhaust opens before the fuel mix is finished burning and exhaust temperatures go up. Piston temperatures usually go down and exhaust valve temperature goes up. In the nitrous engine, exhaust temperature goes up for several reasons. The first is that the power output has gone up considerably. More power usually produces more waste heat. Second, the need to keep maximum cylinder pressures within reason has dictated that the biggest part of the fire happens closer to the exhaust valve opening time. There just isn’t enough piston travel to extract all the energy out of the charge before the exhaust valve opens. Now, we could and sometimes do, open the exhaust valve later so more combustion pressure energy can be used to turn the crank. The trade off is negative torque on the exhaust stroke. If we still have significant cylinder pressure in the cylinder as the piston moves from BDC to TDC on the exhaust stroke, your net Hp falls drastically. A real problem at higher RPM.

You can improve maximum power stroke efficiency and minimize exhaust pumping losses by running the engine at lower RPM and/or improving the exhaust valve size, lift and port design. A big nitrous engine likes everything about the exhaust to be big. If it flows good enough the cylinder will blow down by bottom dead center, even at high RPM with relatively mild exhaust valve timing. There are many variables in the design and development of an all out nitrous engine. A mistake will cause the melt down of any brand of piston. The high strength of the KB piston will withstand detonation and severe abuse. Unfortunately, all pistons will melt and when cylinder pressure limits are exceeded, run away detonation can occur. The excess detonation heat makes the plugs, valves and piston so hot the ignition system alone can not be used to shut the engine down. Continued operation worsens the situation to the point of a total melt down. Designing a maximum performance nitrous engine is more of an exercise in heat management than it is in engine building.

A lack of a sufficient fuel supply is probably the most common killer of the nitrous engine. If you add a 300 HP kit to your present 300 HP engine, your fuel requirements roughly double and a shortage doesn’t just slow you down, it melts things. An electric fuel pump and fuel line devoted entirely to the nitrous equipment is recommended. Some people add a small "race fuel" tank just for the nitrous. If you are using a diaphragm mechanical pump to supply fuel to the carburetor, it is worth while to increase the fuel line I.D. If the carburetor goes lean while the nitrous is on, the pistons can melt even with a rich nitrous fuel jetting. The large fuel line trick (1/2" dia.) only makes a major improvement in the operation of diaphragm mechanical fuel pumps. It is a waste of time on most electric applications. An electric pump pushing a mechanical pump is not recommended and does not do well at high engine RPM. A large size line is effective with a mechanical pump, even if you use smaller fittings at the tank, fuel pump and carburetor. The advantage of the 1/2" large line is not related to the steady state flow rate of the line. The advantage relates to the acceleration time and displacement of the pulsating flow common to the mechanical pump.

High compression ratios can be used with nitrous but shifting the maximum pressure after top dead center becomes more and more difficult. I prefer to use street compression ratios and then just work with adding more nitrous to get desired horsepower levels.

We are currently testing some pistons specifically designed for Nitrous use. Current "off the shelf" pistons have been successfully run with a 500 HP nitrous kit combined with a Dr. Jacob's nitrous control system. Most of our effort has been to develop new ideas that will push the limit of nitrous technology. More testing is planned with a piston especially plated to reduce detonation.

A beginner would do well to build a reliable high performance engine first, then advance to nitrous, turbo or supercharging. This makes for more fun, more education with less head ache and money spent. The book titled "Nitrous Oxide Injection" by David Vizard, published by S-A Design is stocked in any good speed shop and should be required reading by anyone wanting to run nitrous successfully
Kinda be-lated, but Thank You Ninaja for all the help.

Im kinda reluctant to go with a pipe yet, my unltimate goal is a turbo busa, and the pipes i really like are the HMF (but doesnt everyone, lol)
Ok im gonna try to throw my $.02 in here, I know a lot about cars, but how well it relates to a bike is a different story so dont beleive what I may say right off the bat.

Turbos are awsome, they work great on cars, and if you do it right you can get tons of PSI off them, and on cars (dont know about bikes) it has the blow-off valve which is AWSOME. The only drawbacks really, is it costs a ton of cash, and if you push to much psi your gonna blow something in the motor if its all stock. And I dont know anything about the bikes yet so i dont know how well they handle this sort of thing.

N20 is always a good "cheater" way to get some hp in a drag race, its pretty cheap and gives a good bang for the buck. The downfalls however is you may get made fun of by some all motor guys lol. Also depending how well a busa is put together and the quality of parts in the engine, and if you hook the nitrous up right, you may blow something if you use to big a shot to many times. And like said above you have to refill it all the time.

......a busa only has like 170ish or less HP stock? dang I need a cc to HP calculator because thats fast as hell for 170 hp, and its 1300 cc. guess because its so light, because my friends trans am has 350hp and a busa would still spank it.
HP/weight ratio is to great on a busa.

A stock busa can handle a 30hp shot of NOS, no engine/EFI mods, and with a power commander to richen the mixture it can go much higher.

Busa's are top quality in everything. Engines are engines, all of them can be blown if pushed to far. But with alot of mods, you can get a busa up 650+hp. Thats about as far as anyone has gone, thus far.
ok if its like 170hp now and generally runs low 10s...get 650 and were saying ooh maybe 3's? lol thats crazy on a bike, your just staring death in the face that way.
Yes stock and anything over stock is a Hell of a lot of power.
ok if its like 170hp now and generally runs low 10s...get 650 and were saying ooh maybe 3's? lol thats crazy on a bike, your just staring death in the face that way.

150-155 @ the wheels
170hp @ the wheels with PC, airbox mod and pipes.
It can all get you to 200mph, it is a matter of how quick you get here, and how much room you have.
200mph (gps or radar) is a lot harder to get there then most people will admit. Do it a little at a time and you w9ill know what you need to get there.  This is always a big debate.