I need some opinions from photogs

[aka Danksy]

if you have no idea how to take a picture, but you want something that has the capability to take a proper picture and expand lense wise, just a get a Rebel XS, not an XSi you don't need the extra megapixel if your still at the stage of "maybe taking a photography class"

photography is infinitely deep but I have seen a lot of GREAT pictures taken with mediocre cameras, and at the same times I see a lot of yuppies with 5D MarkII ($5,000 with a decent lens) that cannot tell you what aperature or ISO they are shooting at.

Canon Rebel XS

 

[slash]

if you have no idea how to take a picture, but you want something that has the capability to take a proper picture and expand lense wise, just a get a Rebel XS, not an XSi you don't need the extra megapixel if your still at the stage of "maybe taking a photography class"
photography is infinitely deep but I have seen a lot of GREAT pictures taken with mediocre cameras, and at the same times I see a lot of yuppies with 5D MarkII ($5,000 with a decent lens) that cannot tell you what aperature or ISO they are shooting at.

Canon Rebel XS

mp's have nothing at all to do with complexity of a cameras depth of ability or ones skill level.

 

[F=MA]

if you have no idea how to take a picture, but you want something that has the capability to take a proper picture and expand lense wise, just a get a Rebel XS, not an XSi you don't need the extra megapixel if your still at the stage of "maybe taking a photography class"

photography is infinitely deep but I have seen a lot of GREAT pictures taken with mediocre cameras, and at the same times I see a lot of yuppies with 5D MarkII ($5,000 with a decent lens) that cannot tell you what aperature or ISO they are shooting at.

Canon Rebel XS

I agree. I think the OP is leaning towards Nikon's entry-level or near entry-level offerings though.

My first 25,000 photos were taken with a Canon XTi (400d for those outside the U.S.). Aside from the frustration reducing sensor cleaning feature, every one of those 25,000 would have been just as bad if they'd been taken with the original 300d. It was a great option for learning.

 

[aka Danksy]

mp's have nothing at all to do with complexity of a cameras depth of ability or ones skill level.

yes, I know, but its not like this kid is gunna shoot RAW or make a billboard, and the XSi is more expensive for an extra 2MP, extra .5FPS and something like 2 extra focal points, which I argue he would not use.

 

[summer]

Below is a good review of the Nikon D40. Something to watch out for with the D40 is its inability to autofocus with a great number of Nikon (and other) lenses.

"Hence the Nikon D40 (and D40x) will only autofocus with newer AF-S type lenses. Those who still want to use legacy lenses, many of which are still in the Nikon lineup, should opt for the D50, D70, or D80. Note that you can still use older lenses with the Nikon D40 if you're okay with manual focus."


D 40 Review

 

[fiend]

Below is a good review of the Nikon D40. Something to watch out for with the D40 is its inability to autofocus with a great number of Nikon (and other) lenses.



D 40 Review

I had read a couple reviews of the D40 like this, and that was my main concern for going with the next higher body, and its only a $100 price difference between the D40 and D60. Thanks for all the input everyone it is helping me tremendously. I am going entry level so I can learn about it. I am still not sure which one I am going to get, but that was the main reason for me starting this thread was to find out information and get some opinions on the cameras.

 

[F=MA]

If it's a $100 difference and you think you might shoot landscapes someday I'd recommend stepping up to the d60.

If you never view photos larger than what they display on a computer screen, or never plan to take a photo at anything smaller than f8~f11 you can probably do without this feature. If not, plan to spend more time in Photoshop cleaning sensor spots.

What are sensor spots? They're the photographic record of microscopic pieces of dust that have settled on your camera's image sensor while you were changing lenses. They are most visible at smaller apertures. They can be fixed easily enough in Photoshop, but it can be time consuming.

Here's an extreme example from a portion of one of my photos of the Madrid skyline a couple of weeks ago. This was taken at f36, which is extreme. I had cleaned my camera's sensor that morning using a lighted magnifying loupe, but it doesn't appear so.

My old XTi has Canon's sensor cleaning system. It's not perfect, but I never realized how good it was until I upgraded to the 5d, which does not have this system.

Again, at computer screen resolution only a few of these spots are visible, and most would probably think they're birds flying around. To me though, this is a nightmare that will cost fifteen minutes per photo to clean up...and makes spending an extra $100 for a partially effective solution a no-brainer.

 

[summer]

I had read a couple reviews of the D40 like this, and that was my main concern for going with the next higher body, and its only a $100 price difference between the D40 and D60. Thanks for all the input everyone it is helping me tremendously. I am going entry level so I can learn about it. I am still not sure which one I am going to get, but that was the main reason for me starting this thread was to find out information and get some opinions on the cameras.

I started with a D50 (have a D80 now too) about 4 years ago knowing very little about photography. I started reading and looking at NikonCafe.com - Powered by vBulletin on a daily basis. I learned a ton from listening to critiques of others' photos. I learned to "see" the things that others were seeing regarding composition and coloring and depth of field. Then I got out there and practiced every chance I got.

I bought a few what I considered to be "gotta have" lenses: one for portraits, one for macro, and one that covered the whole range from wide angle to zoom.

Both the D50 and D80 have been great cameras. The D60 would do a great job as well.

Good luck!

 

[slash]

yes, I know, but its not like this kid is gunna shoot RAW or make a billboard, and the XSi is more expensive for an extra 2MP, extra .5FPS and something like 2 extra focal points, which I argue he would not use.

not sure what raw has to do with mp's either?


anyways, i agree the d60 is a good camera too. actually d 80's are getting VERY cheap too. you can get one used for what a new d60 combo would cost.

 

[fiend]

I was finally able to hold and somewhat use a canon xs and xsi yesterday. I wasn't able to play with any settings or anything because the batteries weren't in them. I plan on going to a local camera shop today and see if I can't use them and the nikons I have been looking at. I was also looking at a nikon d3000 and was wondering some of your opinions on it. Where in the information about the cameras is there something about the sensor cleaning systems. Is this something that only Canon is using or is it something that other manufacturers are using also?

 

[F=MA]

Both the Canon XS and XSi have the sensor cleaning feature. The review of the Nikon d60 someone posted earlier mentioned the d60 has a similar feature whereas the d40 does not.

I can't help you with how Nikon's system works, but the Canon system ultrasonically vibrates a filter covering the actual image sensor when the camera is turned on. It can also be activated on demand.

Even with a sensor cleaning feature, you're occasionally going to have to blow out the chamber. The frequency you have to do this will be reduced though, and you might find you never have to clean your sensor with a swab.

With my XTi (sensor cleaning system equipped) I could almost always get away with shooting at f11 without having to look at my images pixel by pixel to find sensor spots. Worst case, I might get a piece of dust or two that the system couldn't shake loose and I'd have to blow the sensor clean with a bulb-style blower.

My 5d, on the other hand, is a nightmare. I know that if I have a photograph with a relatively consistent background (sky, for example), and I've shot at anything smaller than f5.6 I need to check pixel by pixel. Part of this is because the image sensor on the 5d is massive compared to the XTi (which has an image sensor size similar to the d60), but most of it I'm convinced is due to the lack of an in-camera cleaning system.

You may never have the need or desire to examine you photographs pixel by pixel, and if you only view them at the size of a computer screen you may only occasionally find a problem. If you think you might ever want to go beyond merely taking snapshots of things with you new camera though, it's definitely worth considering this feature.

Plus with the d60 you are getting 60% more megapixels. As written before, megapixels aren't the "be all, end all" that camera manufacturers market them as, but 10 megapixels can give you more options in certain cases.

For a $100 difference, I think it's a no-brainer if you're on the fence between these two models.

Looking at the hands on review at Digital Camera Reviews and News: Digital Photography Review: Forums, Glossary, FAQ , the d3000 doesn't seem to offer much of real value more than the d60. I can't imagine in-camera processing using a three inch screen is going to be remotely comparable to using image editing software on a laptop or desktop with a fifteen to twenty-four inch screen.

I'm also really skeptical when I read anything about a dSLR making taking great photos "simpler and easier". I'm probably a bit extreme in my photographic ambitions, but I've absolutely zero interest in the camera doing anything for me except autofocus...and I only allow that to operate within very tight parameters...single point - with me controlling exactly what the camera is allowed to focus on. 99% of my photos are taken in full manual mode, and I've forgotten how to get a jpeg image out of my camera.

The reason I bought a dSLR in the first place was because I wanted to take the photo, not just hold a device up and let it make all the artistic decisions that would determine the end result.

Probably the most important feature of the d3000 is that it will likely drive down the price of the d60.

Keep us posted on your journey.

 

[TruWrecks]

I know nothing about real photography, so I don't have anything of value to add.

I do have a Canon 30D for sale in the classified section. I listed for $825 as a good starter kit, but I will entertain any reasonable price. PM me if you want to talk about it.