I discovered "part" of the zx-13.5's success
- Thread starter JINKSTER
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Relsek
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So, how can we fit God into this thread?Oh geez, and I just couldn't leave well enough alone...
I was sitting here thinking (I know, I shouldn't do that) "Hey" I says to meself "Hey, we're not looking at the whole picture here. With what size tires do these machines come from their respective factories?"
"Well I'm glad you asked" I says to meself. "The Busa comes stock with a 180/55 if I'm not mistaken, which has a nominal circumference of 6.458'. The ZX14 comes stock with a 190/50 - a slightly taller tire, which has a nominal circumference of 6.552'. This means that the Kawi is, effectively, pulling against an even taller ratio."
That is, if they really do exist...
Okay, I'm shutting up now.
no...I didn't...however you sir?...well?..at first I wanted to say you forgot to take into account final drive ratios...but even that doesn't explain away your 9+:1 numbers as the highest ratio hit in in 6th of course...where the kaw pulls a combined Final, Primary and Transaxel ratio of 4.989:1 where the Busa in sixth is towing a 4.991:1...a whopping dif of .003:1 advantage busa..as the kaw is minisculy taller in sixth by .003:1.Hate to burst your bubble Bill, but according to those numbers the 13.5 has the taller first gear ratio.
Busa: 9.816:1 in 1st
13.5: 9.756:1 in 1st
You forgot to take into account the primary drive ratio on both bikes.
And where you got those 9's from?..I have no clue.
cool Larry and...no...I've never considered "spaying" any bike I've ever owned...I'm just not that sorta rider....oh I've pinned my busa a time or two just for the thrill of seeing "if it could" and/or "The Thrill Of Seeing Just How Fast It Could Pin Itself" but generally speaking?...I'm not a top speed kinda guy...I'm also not real fanatical about 1/4 miling it...oh I never pass up a given opportunity at trying my hand at heads up stuff but...I'd never compromise the overall handling virtues of my busa to render it as such an extreme single purpose sort of machine...no stretching...no slamming...no turbo and no spray...but show me 100's of miles of twisties ranging from tight technicals to tripl digit sweepers?..and watch the pool of drool begin to form on my tank. LOL!Good answer Bill. Nobody has any idea what the 14 is really like, reliability, comfort, gas mileage, etc. because there are none on the streets. The Kaw dealership where I live is getting one. Only one. And it won't be me buying it. I don't think I'd have any problem at all beating one with my 12. In fact, I'm pretty sure I would beat one fairly easily. Of course, my 50 hp shot of nitrous might have something to do with it. Now if the 14 had the same setup as me, it might be a different story.Okay...you deserve a better and far more comprehensive answer to your question...and quite frankly?...so do the primary readers of this board so here goes..
I have a number of extremely viable options open to me...and if and/or when I ever deem it necessary?..also a vast variety of readily available big bore kits...(which btw will be far more competitively priced as compared to anything that will ever be made available for the 13.5 since the 13.5's engine case and jugs are of a single piece casting where the busa just requires a jug swap out) and that should pretty much do it. LOL!
But of course if it doesn't?...There's always a wide selection of drop-in cams and various fueling upgrade options available.
But to me?..it also isn't just the comparitivly miniscule power delta's that come into play here..it's also the bikes other important aspects..such as braking, handling, reliability and?..well?..the true verdict behind kaws claimed aerodynamic accomplishments...and?..the REAL jury is gonna be out on the 13.5 for some time to come as John Q. Public needs the opportunity to put kaws new big beast through it paces..and not just the glowing reports we've been hearing from factory sponsored insiders....editors, after-marketers and racers alike as..well?..we just ain't "Them"...and so far?..alls we have to go on is their oh so gloriouse and possibly slightly biased words..but time will tell.
Meanwhile?..I gotta go...taking my daughter for a ride on my lowly flying egg. LOL!
and....L8R, Bill.
Have you ever thought of spraying your bike? It's simple, reliable, and awesome.
Later ... Larry ...
Hypersporttour is my thing...and the busa does it like no other...so far. LOL! and we shall see what the ZX-14 has to offer in time...I did take note of Ryan Schnitzs report of "84 runs in 4 hours and the clutch still felt like new" so one things fer sure,,,the new 14 has one he11a clutch...and I like that...however I'm also aware that just like on my old ZRX and the 12R's Kaw has a clutch dampening system...and it is not a locked hub clutch...one of my old zrxoa 1/4 mile racing buds developed a locking clutch hub for the zrx's as his 12R gave him fits as the clutch would break/damp the hit and give way under hard launches...causing the rear wheel to skitter and hop leaving the line...till he locked that clutch damping device...I wonder and can only assume the 14 has something simular...which will save a clutch big time but also comes at the cost of some sketchy hard launches via the hopping and skittering that takes place when in the highly skilled hands of well seasoned 1/4 mile trigger men.
L8R, Bill.
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of course harley riders quivel over 10-12 hp it all a harley has!!Ya sound like a bunch of Harley riders quiveling over 10-12hp.
TheAtomicAss
Registered
The 9+:1 numbers I posted are the combined pri/trans/final ratio's of first gear for each respective bike.no...I didn't...however you sir?...well?..at first I wanted to say you forgot to take into account final drive ratios...but even that doesn't explain away your 9+:1 numbers as the highest ratio hit in in 6th of course...where the kaw pulls a combined Final, Primary and Transaxel ratio of 4.989:1 where the Busa in sixth is towing a 4.991:1...a whopping dif of .003:1 advantage busa..as the kaw is minisculy taller in sixth by .003:1.Hate to burst your bubble Bill, but according to those numbers the 13.5 has the taller first gear ratio.
Busa: 9.816:1 in 1st
13.5: 9.756:1 in 1st
You forgot to take into account the primary drive ratio on both bikes.
And where you got those 9's from?..I have no clue.
You multiply, not add each ratio. These are the ratios for sixth gear in each bike:
Busa: 3.915
13.5: 3.850
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My apologies to the board..Atomic...and Aughtsix...and aughtsixs figures above are correct...in my excitement I screwed up my calculations by adding instead of multiplying as atomic pointed out.Going by Bill's numbers (no, I haven't verified the accuracy - I can only hope they're more accurate than his 'conclusion'...) the Busa actually has the gearing advantage in first, second and sixth.
Overall gearing - Busa shown first, then the ZX14:
9.817 -- 9.757
7.271 -- 7.237
5.729 -- 5.743
4.824 -- 4.955
4.264 -- 4.289
3.915 -- 3.851
As can be clearly seen, the ZX14 doesn't hold any real gearing advantage until 4th (3rd by a scant - realistically useless percentage), holds a marginal advantage in 5th, then falls back to a disadvantage in 6th.
Bill, your vehemence against a bike that has yet to be released is, well, telling. Keep up the cheerleading, but bear in mind your panties are showing...
Conversly?..aughtsix?...no panties and no cheerleading here...just trying to do my best to keep my busa bretheren on top of things..unfortunately?..in this case?..I screwed up. LOL!!!
Still though...it's been a damn good convo and at least now we collectively know for certain what it is we'll be dealing with..and it appears that 4th gear definantly ain't the place to be when dueling with the 13.5...and the only practical way for us to square things up there?..is to go to a 42T rear sprocket...but then of course?..the 13.5 owner could do the same...so I guess it's true folks...the busa's days as King Of Zing are numbered...oh well...it was a good run.
Happy Easter, Bill.
Gearing: I asked that a LOOOONG time ago. If changing sprockets make's the bike THAT MUCH QUICKER [not increasing HP, mind you], then why don't the manufactures just make that by default? "But it robs top end, waaaa, waaaaa!" Fine, beef up SIXTH gear so it's bigger , or whatever, and can reach high top end numbers. Big deal. Not many really use 6th for that anyway
So how can we compare any of these bikes if sprocket ratios are different? Is "STOCK" gearing some specification that all companies use? ?
So how can we compare any of these bikes if sprocket ratios are different? Is "STOCK" gearing some specification that all companies use? ?
The gear ratios in the primary (the ratio of crank too transaxel) and eash actual gear ratio is mathmatically developed by design engineers based on power output info gleened directly from crank..and based on their crank power output findings they attempt to optimize each individual gear ratio to that crank output power curve.
and then the bastardizing of those findings starts...as are they...
Going for top end track only performance?
or?...
Trying to meet EPA import specs?
Top End Speed?
Mid Range Grunt?
Fuel Milage?
and any or all combinations of the above.
But one things for certain..you can change it all across the board with a sprocket swap...and even two teeth up on the rear can make a very noticable dif....as a matter of fact?...a few years back I believe I read that the stock geared busa won't pull to the rev limiter in 6th..and that overall performance annnnd..even busa top end speeds were actually increased by simply going two teeth up on the rear sprocket. (if I do in fact recall correctly)
and evidently?..that's all I know. L8R, Bill.
TheAtomicAss
Registered
Don't forget a bulk pack of fork seals if you go the 42T route.The gear ratios in the primary (the ratio of crank too transaxel) and eash actual gear ratio is mathmatically developed by design engineers based on power output info gleened directly from crank..and based on their crank power output findings they attempt to optimize each individual gear ratio to that crank output power curve.
and then the bastardizing of those findings starts...as are they...
Going for top end track only performance?
or?...
Trying to meet EPA import specs?
Top End Speed?
Mid Range Grunt?
Fuel Milage?
and any or all combinations of the above.
But one things for certain..you can change it all across the board with a sprocket swap...and even two teeth up on the rear can make a very noticable dif....as a matter of fact?...a few years back I believe I read that the stock geared busa won't pull to the rev limiter in 6th..and that overall performance annnnd..even busa top end speeds were actually increased by simply going two teeth up on the rear sprocket. (if I do in fact recall correctly)
and evidently?..that's all I know. L8R, Bill.
And race my bike sometime, my complete ratio in first is OVER 20:1 Can you say smoky 1 wheeled burnouts?
Happy Easter to you too !...so I guess it's true folks...the busa's days as King Of Zing are numbered...oh well...it was a good run.
Happy Easter, Bill.
And I SERIOUSLY doubt that Suzuki is going to get caught sleeping at their post.
"What in the -- a ZX14 you say?. Well now, where in the world did that come from and what, oh what, are we going to do?"
Naw - I'm betting Suzi has a bike already designed, built and tested, with a whole lot more than BNG, sitting somewhere in a dark corner, just waiting patiently...
Like a trapdoor spider for its next victim.
Which brings me to yet another point...and by now I'm sure you guys are thrilled to hear that! LOL!Don't forget a bulk pack of fork seals if you go the 42T route.The gear ratios in the primary (the ratio of crank too transaxel) and eash actual gear ratio is mathmatically developed by design engineers based on power output info gleened directly from crank..and based on their crank power output findings they attempt to optimize each individual gear ratio to that crank output power curve.
and then the bastardizing of those findings starts...as are they...
Going for top end track only performance?
or?...
Trying to meet EPA import specs?
Top End Speed?
Mid Range Grunt?
Fuel Milage?
and any or all combinations of the above.
But one things for certain..you can change it all across the board with a sprocket swap...and even two teeth up on the rear can make a very noticable dif....as a matter of fact?...a few years back I believe I read that the stock geared busa won't pull to the rev limiter in 6th..and that overall performance annnnd..even busa top end speeds were actually increased by simply going two teeth up on the rear sprocket. (if I do in fact recall correctly)
and evidently?..that's all I know. L8R, Bill.
And race my bike sometime, my complete ratio in first is OVER 20:1 Can you say smoky 1 wheeled burnouts?
Back when I first got my busa it was highly recommended to me (by someone I highy respected) to go two teeth up on the rear of my busa...but I haven't yet..why?..well?..I made that move on my old ZRX and boy howdy if 2 teeth up didn't spark that bike to life however...a few weeks later?..while up in the mountains for a rally?..I sorta regretted the 2 teeth up move..like the engine had too much grunt rendering the throttle to an extremely "On/Off'ish" condition...dare I say "Twitchy"...in the rear...especially when nailing it hard on corner exits...where it got to a point that I just resigned to keeping the tranny one gear higher than I thought it should be at any given curve/speed/lean angle...and this damped that twitchy throttle syndrome a bit...the bike was dyno tuned with full muzzy meg, DJ jet kit and K&N pods..and that two teeth up thing was beastly in the tight and technicals.
this one...
so?..I'm undecided on that sprocket swap-out on my busa...guess I'll just hafta wait 'n see how truely bad the 13.5s really are before deciding and...L8R, Bill.
Oh man...Busa comes with a 190/50
And here I was trying to look all smart and everything...
yeah...whadda elementry rookie mistake eh aughtsix?..almost as bad as adding ratios instead of multiplying them. LOL!Oh man...Busa comes with a 190/50
And here I was trying to look all smart and everything...
welcome to my world.
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